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Brexit discussion thread II

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Comments

  • #8642
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Aegir wrote: »
    and as has already been pointed out, this is exactly what the UK does today (and Ireland).

    That's what I was saying .


  • #8643
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,774 ✭✭✭✭josip


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Beginning to look like this is a fudge,

    Was there ever any doubt?
    Politics is simply selling a non-optimal arrangement to your own supporters.


  • #8644
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Beginning to look like this is a fudge,

    I reckon so. Bojan Pancevski's latest musings are interesting.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/04/theresa-may-heads-to-brussels-hoping-to-conclude-phase-one-of-brexit-talks-politics-live

    EDIT: I may be utterly wrong but I'm beginning to think that we won't have deal re the border till 2019 or after.


  • #8645
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Now the Welsh. Who haven't been heard from in centuries. :) Carwyn Jones:
    We cannot allow different parts of the UK to be more favourably treated than others. If one part of the UK is granted continued participation in the Single Market & Customs Union, then we fully expect to be made the same offer.


  • #8646
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭Harika


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Now the Welsh. Who haven't been heard from in centuries. :) Carwyn Jones:

    It is like the single market and customs union is something you really want to be in. At least now we know that all parts of england, except of NI want to stay in the SM+CU, but as everyone else is in it, NI also wants to stay in. :pac:


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  • #8647
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,059 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Now the Welsh. Who haven't been heard from in centuries. :) Carwyn Jones:

    Didn't the welsh vote to leave? Then how do they consider staying in the CU are beneficial?


  • #8648
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,066 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


  • #8649
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sammy's is not seeing it as a fudge.

    https://twitter.com/bbcnormans/status/937708261675032576


  • #8650
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    josip wrote: »
    Was there ever any doubt?
    Politics is simply selling a non-optimal arrangement to your own supporters.

    As has oft been said in these negotiations, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, so whatever "Regulatory alignment" means, it means nothing until the final deal is struck and there is ink, dried, on paper.

    To me, this smacks of a proper, pragmatic, deal struck days or weeks ago by civil servants, but the politicians leaving it to the eleventh hour so they can announce it and be seen to be saving the day.


  • #8651
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,059 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The only issue with that Aegir, is that for many Brexit hardliners anything even remotely seen as pragmatic or negotiation will be seen as a total climb down.

    Recall that when Art 50 was triggered it was that the UK were going to make the demands, that the EU were going to be the ones pleading for the UK for stay or given them anything to at least stay friends.


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  • #8652
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Interesting. Juncker and May statement in 5 minutes ahead of Leo's statement which was due to be first originally


  • #8653
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Aegir wrote: »
    As has oft been said in these negotiations, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, so whatever "Regulatory alignment" means, it means nothing until the final deal is struck and there is ink, dried, on paper.

    To me, this smacks of a proper, pragmatic, deal struck days or weeks ago by civil servants, but the politicians leaving it to the eleventh hour so they can announce it and be seen to be saving the day.
    Doubt it, looking at the DUP reaction.


  • #8654
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,043 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Apparently May to give televised statement in next 10 mins.


  • #8655
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    The only issue with that Aegir, is that for many Brexit hardliners anything even remotely seen as pragmatic or negotiation will be seen as a total climb down.

    Recall that when Art 50 was triggered it was that the UK were going to make the demands, that the EU were going to be the ones pleading for the UK for stay or given them anything to at least stay friends.

    yes, but sooner or later the grown ups had to take control.


  • #8656
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Doubt it, looking at the DUP reaction.

    who?

    As I said in my previous post, the grown ups are talking now.


  • #8657
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,059 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    True, but May has up to this point shown no signs of being able to take control. Even the DUP statement mentioned Tory backbenchers on their side.

    May has simply no ability to deliver on this


  • #8658
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    May due to speak in 10mins to camera, so we'll see.

    If it is what the draft wording says, it's no fudge. Even if the UK falls out of Europe with no deal, regulatory convergence must be kept on both parts of the island. That will be acceptable to the Irish government. We never needed to have every detail ironed out to move ahead, but this gives clarity and solid, in-writing assurance, which was what Ireland was always requesting.

    As if to whether the DUP can swallow it, we'll see. And what the hell is London doing demanding the same deal as Scotland and Wales are demanding? This is just getting silly..


  • #8659
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,028 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I find it very funny that the question of the border with the north is only dawning on some people in the U.K. now. This border has been then since the 1920s. They clearly didn't think it through and it's not the republics problem. The British people voted for brexit so it's their problem to sort out.


  • #8660
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Update on Guardian rolling coverage from BBC - no deal today.


  • #8661
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,797 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    I find it very funny that the question of the border with the north is only dawning on some people in the U.K. now. This border has been then since the 1920s. They clearly didn't think it through and it's not the republics problem. The British people voted for brexit so it's their problem to sort out.

    Daniel Hannan recently tweeted that there hasn't been an Irish border in nearly a century. This is the sort of mindset you're dealing with here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #8662
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,892 ✭✭✭cml387


    Katya Adler (BBC) saying no deal today.


  • #8663
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Official. No deal today - Juncker


  • #8664
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just read this on the BBC
    She will be accompanied by European Commission boss Jean-Claude Juncker, with whom she has spent the last couple of hours locked in talks.

    wouldn't it be great if they were locked and the pair of them did a televised statement off their faces after a few too many Chablis at lunch time.


  • #8665
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Juncker:
    Positions narrowing, I’m still confident we can reach sufficient progress before December Council... PM: progress made, we want to move forward together sone issues require further consultation


  • #8666
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    If only Theresa May did not call an election, the DUP wouldn't be a factor and we'd probably have had a deal today.

    Half of the problems with this issue are her own making.


  • #8667
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    devnull wrote: »
    If only Theresa May did not call an election, the DUP wouldn't be a factor and we'd probably have had a deal today.

    Half of the problems with this issue are her own making.

    Pressure on the DUP for the next few days I reckon. Will they or won't they.


  • #8668
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Pressure on the DUP for the next few days I reckon. Will they or won't they.

    will they or won't they what?

    withdraw support for the government, force a general election and see a pro united Ireland Labour leader become prime minister?

    unlikely


  • #8669
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,820 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Samaris wrote: »
    And what the hell is London doing demanding the same deal as Scotland and Wales are demanding? This is just getting silly..

    That was just Sadiq Khan having a laugh, not an actual serious suggestion so much as pointing out the anomaly.


  • #8670
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,669 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Aegir wrote: »
    will they or won't they what?

    withdraw support for the government, force a general election and see a pro united Ireland Labour leader become prime minister?

    unlikely

    If they maintain their position there will be no stage 2. Will they or won't they allow the UK to progress, I suppose.


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  • #8671
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Pressure on the DUP for the next few days I reckon. Will they or won't they.

    Pressure on Varadkar as well. Looks like the Irish government will be asked to be more flexible with the language that will make up a potential deal. I reckon it will probably wind up as "regulatory cooperation" which will fall short of what the government wanted but which the DUP will be satisfied with. They can then claim that they got Dublin to climb down which will play well with their constituents.

    Big test of nerve facing the Irish government if the EU start indicating they are ready to move things on.


This discussion has been closed.
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