Brexit discussion thread II

Harika wrote: »

London to leave England?

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/937687487488692231

If the limited paragraph reported by RTE is what he is talking about then either he is in fantasy land or he doesn't understand what it means.

"In the absence of agreed solutions the UK will ensure that there continues to be no divergence from those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North South cooperation and the protection of the Good Friday Agreement."

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It looks like the DUP aren't onboard afterall. I hope the Irish Government wasn't briefing too hard before a deal had been sealed.

Yeh there is a caution to keep the powder dry on this.
Leo's speech delayed now too.

Jayop wrote: »

Ah here an hour ago you were saying this was a great deal for the UK and they got one over on Ireland and the EU. I'd hardly take anything you say on board.

Hang on, you need to read my posts again.

I don't read the current deal as circulated as meaning the North remaining in the customs union, hence that is a win for the UK (not necessarily a good deal for the UK let alone a great deal as Brexit is stupid). Limiting regulatory alignment to those issues covered by North-South co-operation and the GFA leaves an awful lot of areas where there could be regulatory disalignment and therefore requiring a border, how soft or hard depending on the extent of alignment.

However, if the deal means the UK remaining in the customs union (and I don't read it as that), then that is a good deal for Ireland.

You need to differentiate between my analysis of the what the deal actually is and my view of what would or wouldn't be a good deal for Ireland. You also need to differentiate between what is seen a win for one side and what I believe is a good deal for either side.

Arlene says "The Democratic Unionist Party will not accept any kind of regulatory divergence” in customs regulations and trade practices between the North and the Republic of Ireland, the party’s leader Arlene Foster said today." I bet the UK are delighted that NI is a part of the union.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/foster-we-won-t-agree-to-separating-ni-economically-or-politically-from-uk-1.3314974

Harika wrote: »

London to leave England?

Britain first will be having nightmares of a London ran by supreme leader Khan and governed by sharia law.

kowtow wrote: »

Secondly you have cameras at the border only, recording movements, combined with a comprehensive electronic self-declaration regime.

How long do you think those cameras would remain functional? Here in France, they tried something similar (for "polluter pays" road tax on HGVs) and despite getting the infrastructure in place ahead of time and under budget, we still ended up with a 1bn€ bill for a cancelled contract and no revenue because one section of the community decided they weren't going to cooperate.



Does anyone seriously think that spy-cameras on the border would be fare any better? And why bother, when it would be so much easier to place all the necessary controls at the existing ports of entry?

CelticRambler wrote: »

[...]

Does anyone seriously think that spy-cameras on the border would be fare any better? And why bother, when it would be so much easier to place all the necessary controls at the existing ports of entry?

That issue of the survival of anything that looks like a border control but if tech has been niggling at me too. I read one article in which a local to the border region (Monaghan, I think) was saying that speed cameras don't survive being put up around there so I'm unsure how e-controls are expected to fare any better.

The sea border gives me a further niggle of that we are now absolutely trusting Britain to keep its controls tight and I don't see these controls being popular.

Still, perhaps these problems can be ironed out. Assuming the DUP don't implode in a shower of brimstone.

Full DUP statement

https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/937692999697485825/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Flive-may-heads-for-crunch-talks-on-brexit-deal-11156136

joe40 wrote: »

The hardline brexiteers are always on about controlling immigration and taking back their borders.
So even if NI stays in customs union to ensure easy passage of goods between North and south, will they still not need  "border controls" to prevent illegal immigration from the EU via Ireland. Will brexit become a total farce?

This has been covered several times before on this thread. The British position to essentially push the border controls to employers, landlords and service providers. People will be required to present ID to avail of these services and utilities.

Kiith wrote: »

Statement from Leo was due at 2:30pm, but has had to be redrafted.

Link?

I thought it was because of the protocol. Lunch hasn't finished with Juncker and May yet.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Full DUP statement

https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/937692999697485825/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Flive-may-heads-for-crunch-talks-on-brexit-deal-11156136

Not incompatible with the way I read the reported agreement. If regulatory alignment between North and South is limited to the issues in the GFA (and the extent to which they have been developed to date) and that extends across the UK, it is not a huge amount of ground to concede. Both the DUP and May will be able to agree with that.

If however, the reported agreement means the North is fully staying within the customs union (as it is being spun by Irish reporters), then that is a problem for May.

DUP are in a really difficult position. They stated that they wanted to be treated the same as the rest of the UK, since even though NI had voted to remain the UK had voted to leave.

Now the UK has decided (it appears at this point anyway) thourgh the elected government of the UK, that NI will actually be treated differently.

So now DUP want to go directly against what the UK actually wants! The problem with being ruled by others, as Ireland have found out many times and as recently as the bank bailout, is that your particular concerns are not always top of the list.

Beginning to look like this is a fudge,