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Non-LGBT posters coming into this forum and insulting us

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13

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    #62
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You must have missed the words "at", "times" and "context".

    Very well, give an example - on this forum (for which this discussion pertains) - where the terms "cis" and "straight" have been used as pejoratives.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote:
    Straight cis men getting a bee in their bonnets as soon a LGBT+ person speaks out against moments of homophbia, transphobia, biphobia, etc. Like we are encroaching on their freedom to say whatever the hell they want, and damn the consequences.

    I know I have personally gotten a bee in my bonnet when I have seen people describe their experiences of discrimination and in the same post speak about a certain other group of people in a way that can only be described as prejudiced and bigoted.

    Just because you (in general, not anyone specifically) have been wronged, it doesn't give you a right to say whatever you want and damn the consequences.


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote:
    Very well, give an example - on this forum (for which this discussion pertains) - where the terms "cis" and "straight" have been used as pejoratives.


    I would assume that the mods would have deleted these comments and closed the thread.


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    #65
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    If you're unable or unwilling to read, internalise and respond civilly to my first, second and third posts I fail to see what a forth will achieve.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Your FXIII analogy mitigates a whole host of abuses... but carry on...

    It does no such thing. But as I said I also made the point _without_ the analogy. But you seem more interested in discussing the analogy than the point.
    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Thing is, no other trans people really speak about anything on here.

    Sure and I said much the same thing. That we need more of it. Both more people speaking - and the current people speaking doing so more.


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    #67
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I would assume that the mods would have deleted these comments and closed the thread.

    Uh-huh... Yeah, sure... It's all a big gay conspiracy... right...


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    #68
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »



    Sure and I said much the same thing. That we need more of it. Both more people speaking - and the current people speaking doing so more.

    No, what you said was when other trans people speak out about such things they don't get shutdown. Then I presented you with the fact that no other transperson speaks out about any social injustice on here, and so you change the goalposts.


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    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote:
    Uh-huh... Yeah, sure... It's all a big gay conspiracy... right...

    Not at all what I was alluding to. I would assume that the mods would delete prejudiced and bigoted remarks as they have no place.

    Why is everything an argument or a snippy remark with you?


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    #70
    Ash885
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It does no such thing. But as I said I also made the point _without_ the analogy. But you seem more interested in discussing the analogy than the point.



    Sure and I said much the same thing. That we need more of it. Both more people speaking - and the current people speaking doing so more.

    And there was me checking furiously through the thread for a Final Fantasy 13 comment...

    But in all fairness JackTaylorFan, you've said in previous topics/threads how you're views have been disregarded and discussions closed. Yet throughout this thread you're being incredibly negative, calling people's theories stupid or idiotic.

    The F13 analogy made sense to me, as a gay man whenever gay issues are taken up I almost instinctively expect to hear the worst. Which is A) presumptive of who is in the conversation and more oftentimes B) unnecessary. But by feeling that way beforehand I more often times can direct the conversation over issues which no one would ever have brought up...

    The particular benefit of these threads happening online as opposed to face-to-face is that little X in the top right corner. Report a message, and carry on with other things. Venting, holding grudges to people you've never met nor who really put much thought into their posts is silly.


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    #71
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Manion wrote: »
    If you're unable or unwilling to read, internalise and respond civilly to my first, second and third posts I fail to see what a forth will achieve.

    If you are unwilling are unable to highlight a specific case where the terms "cis" and "straight" were used as pejoratives on this forum, I fail to see your point, period.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    No, what you said was when other trans people speak out about such things they don't get shutdown. Then I presented you with the fact that no other transperson speaks out about any social injustice on here, and so you change the goalposts.

    No the goal posts are just where they have always been - speakers have come and gone - and some have stayed - on this forum over the years. And they have spoken out about many issues including that of the T in LGBT. And they have done so in a manner that is not disruptive and does not get threads closed and infractions handed out.

    Nor do they limit themselves to this area of the forum. These issues have come up in many areas of boards.ie - quite often in After Hours but also other areas - and I have seen forum regulars from here speak very well on those issues there too.

    If you require examples I urge you to look at the several threads where the topics of Transgender issues - bathrooms issues in schools for pupils who identify as such and much more - have come up in After Hours. You will find some regulars of _this_ forum also speaking very well and very calmly there. And they represent themselves and their community incredibly well.


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    #73
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Ash885 wrote: »
    And there was me checking furiously through the thread for a Final Fantasy 13 comment...

    But in all fairness JackTaylorFan, you've said in previous topics/threads how you're views have been disregarded and discussions closed. Yet throughout this thread you're being incredibly negative, calling people's theories stupid or idiotic.

    The F13 analogy made sense to me, as a gay man whenever gay issues are taken up I almost instinctively expect to hear the worst. Which is A) presumptive of who is in the conversation and more oftentimes B) unnecessary. But by feeling that way beforehand I more often times can direct the conversation over issues which no one would ever have brought up...

    The particular benefit of these threads happening online as opposed to face-to-face is that little X in the top right corner. Report a message, and carry on with other things. Venting, holding grudges to people you've never met nor who really put much thought into their posts is silly.

    See, here's the thing. If I want to take the Friday 13th logic and apply it to... hmmm... let's say... straight cis men looking for offence in the terms cis and straight - I could, and far more effectively as well. Funny how that works, huh :)


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    #74
    Ash885
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    See, here's the thing. If I want to take the Friday 13th logic and apply it to... hmmm... let's say... straight cis men looking for offence in the terms cis and straight - I could, and far more effectively as well. Funny how that works, huh :)

    When you fail to make a coherent point, you blame the person reading as opposed to you, who is rambling. I'm failing to see the purpose of the above message?

    You're trying to belittle other people's experiences and right to be offended for the purpose of demonstrating how you, yourself are victim? Help a cis brother out here :confused:


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    #75
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No the goal posts are just where they have always been - speakers have come and gone - and some have stayed - on this forum over the years. And they have spoken out about many issues including that of the T in LGBT. And they have done so in a manner that is not disruptive and does not get threads closed and infractions handed out.

    Nor do they limit themselves to this area of the forum. These issues have come up in many areas of boards.ie - quite often in After Hours but also other areas - and I have seen forum regulars from here speak very well on those issues there too.

    If you require examples I urge you to look at the several threads where the topics of Transgender issues - bathrooms issues in schools for pupils who identify as such and much more - have come up in After Hours. You will find some regulars of _this_ forum also speaking very well and very calmly there. And they represent themselves and their community incredibly well.

    Seriously? I have looked into the past threads on here regarding transgender issues - dating as far back as the time when the discussion about T even being added to the LGB fora. And it has never been a pleasant, well mannered discussion.


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    #76
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Ash885 wrote: »
    When you fail to make a coherent point, you blame the person reading as opposed to you, who is rambling. I'm failing to see the purpose of the above message?

    You're trying to belittle other people's experiences and right to be offended for the purpose of demonstrating how you, yourself are victim? Help a cis brother out here :confused:

    What was not coherent about the above point? It was the exact same logic used by other users on here, whom you so adamantly agree with.


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Seriously? I have looked into the past threads on here regarding transgender issues - dating as far back as the time when the discussion about T even being added to the LGB fora. And it has never been a pleasant, well mannered discussion.

    Now where are the goal posts :) I was not talking about the over all discussion which - again I entirely agree with you - can be very unpleasant and bad mannered.

    No I was addressing the idea that no one on here is speaking out about such issues. When in fact there are users on here who do so a lot - and they themselves do it in a pleasant and well mannered way even if the whole discussion they are in is hostile.

    So not only do I not agree there is no people here speaking out about it - I also add that they seem to be doing so in a wonderful and calm and articular way. JoeyTheParrot for example has been a great representative of Transgender issues here and in After Hours. As has - quite often - baby and crumble.


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    #78
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    Could the forum do something similar like the soccer forum where a request has to be made after the poster reaches certain criteria?


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    #79
    Ash885
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    What was not coherent about the above point? It was the exact same logic used by other users on here, whom you so adamantly agree with.

    Again, you inject so much sarcasm in your comments I honestly don't know which is which and what is what with you. I'm not sure how applying the logic to a cis straight man detracts from...the logic itself?

    On one hand I'm glad there's some debate/life back in the forum but jaysus this topic is being derailed into a you VS me thing again...


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    #80
    robyntmorton
    Registered Users Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭robyntmorton


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    Could the forum do something similar like the soccer forum where a request has to be made after the poster reaches certain criteria?

    That has been mentioned before and dismissed as counter productive. Ideas for making this space safe yet open are needed, but it’s a difficult compromise to juggle.


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    #81
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Now where are the goal posts :) I was not talking about the over all discussion which - again I entirely agree with you - can be very unpleasant and bad mannered.

    No I was addressing the idea that no one on here is speaking out about such issues. When in fact there are users on here who do so a lot - and they themselves do it in a pleasant and well mannered way even if the whole discussion they are in is hostile.

    So not only do I not agree there is no people here speaking out about it - I also add that they seem to be doing so in a wonderful and calm and articular way. JoeyTheParrot for example has been a great representative of Transgender issues here and in After Hours.

    This whole thread is about threads being shutdown because of destructive non LGBT contributors, specifically on the LGBT forum. Again, you are the one changing the goalposts.

    I do not venture into After Hours anymore. As it has always been toxic on the issue of transpeople and so many other issues besides. Your accounts of how After Hours threads handle trans issues I find hard to believe, having delved into that forum on several occasions.

    I would also like to point out JoeytheParrot is not a transwoman (as far as I know).


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    #82
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Ash885 wrote: »
    Again, you inject so much sarcasm in your comments I honestly don't know which is which and what is what with you. I'm not sure how applying the logic to a cis straight man detracts from...the logic itself?

    On one hand I'm glad there's some debate/life back in the forum but jaysus this topic is being derailed into a you VS me thing again...

    Nothing sarcastic in my previous reply to you, at all. Just stating the obvious.


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    #83
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know I have personally gotten a bee in my bonnet when I have seen people describe their experiences of discrimination and in the same post speak about a certain other group of people in a way that can only be described as prejudiced and bigoted.

    Just because you (in general, not anyone specifically) have been wronged, it doesn't give you a right to say whatever you want and damn the consequences.

    I have spoken about a certain minority in the past, in relation to the systemic homophobic and transphobic problem in that community, which I believe stems from the toxic form of masculinity present therein, yes. And I make no apologies for that. It's a problem in society.


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Your accounts of how After Hours threads handle trans issues I find hard to believe

    Worrying how often I have to keep correcting you on what my point was. I made no comment at all about how the threads handle the issues. I was commenting on how specific users handle themselves on such threads when discussing such issues.


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    #85
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Worrying how often I have to keep correcting you on what my point was. I made no comment at all about how the threads handle the issues. I was commenting on how specific users handle themselves on such threads when discussing such issues.

    Look, you haven't corrected me once. You have made wild allusions that are totally unrelated and accused me of evading the topic. But every time it suits, you ignore a point and go on another straw man offensive.

    And the fact you bring up After Hours threads, without discussing the manner in how they treat the subject matter says a damn hell of a lot more than I need to know.

    The LGBT forum is here for a reason: to protect vulnerable people from the idiots you find in After Hours - and if you don't get that, then you don't actually grasp the whole point of this thread.


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    #86
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    AH and this forum are apples and oranges. Both have different functions. You'd expect a bit of debate and ignorance in AH, you shouldn't expect it here and when it happens it should be dealt with.


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    #87
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    Could the forum do something similar like the soccer forum where a request has to be made after the poster reaches certain criteria?

    I don't see the point of that. We are open to everyone here - I think CGSB made a good suggestion that moderation should be harsher on vulture like posters who come in just to insult us

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #88
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Seriously? I have looked into the past threads on here regarding transgender issues - dating as far back as the time when the discussion about T even being added to the LGB fora. And it has never been a pleasant, well mannered discussion.

    It's been quite a rollercoaster alright - But you seem to highlight the lows of the rollercoaster and not acknowledge the highs. There have been some pleasant well mannered discussions that I am happy to dig out for you.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #89
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    This whole thread is about threads being shutdown because of destructive non LGBT contributors, specifically on the LGBT forum. Again, you are the one changing the goalposts.

    I do not venture into After Hours anymore. As it has always been toxic on the issue of transpeople and so many other issues besides. Your accounts of how After Hours threads handle trans issues I find hard to believe, having delved into that forum on several occasions.

    I would also like to point out JoeytheParrot is not a transwoman (as far as I know).

    Again AH yes has had a lot of transphobia but at the same time the "always" toxic is not fully accurate either. Everything is not black and white. Correct I am a cis man but I have often contributed on trans issues and stood upto transphobia on this site in general.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #90
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Nothing sarcastic in my previous reply to you, at all. Just stating the obvious.

    Respectfully JFT I can often find it difficult to detect your sarcasm or seriousness.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #91
    hdowney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭hdowney


    Yikes that escalated quickly!! I struggle to remember the OP!!

    Seriously though. I like to think of this corner of boards as a safe space without the ‘safe space’-ness if you know what I mean. Being open to and encouraging all, including cis, hetero homosapiens to engage in dialogue is part of what I love about the place. That they can learn and adapt and come to understand the complexities of the LGBT+ community and this informs their behaviour from then on. And in the same vein that the LGBT+ can come to understand some of the causation behind previous behaviours of others and help in the melding of the human race as a community and a whole.

    When the blatant trolls come along to use the forum to get their laughs for the day it boils my blood as it attempts to undo everything we have all spent time trying to nurture, on both sides.


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