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Homelessness: The disgrace that is Varadkar and the Government
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Wheeliebin30 wrote: »What do you suggest we do to help this girl apart from giving her a house whichever already was done?
That's very Varadkar logic. So because of this wan, what?
Maybe we look to fixing rather than deflecting? Varadkar didn't start the problem. If he can't handle it maybe he should see what Murphy is at? Maybe take a look at the figures and change tack accordingly? Unlike Kenny, maybe ask the people on the ground, not developers, what they think might help? There's lots he could be looking at. More of the same isn't cutting it.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »The poster mentioned two homeless dead.
We know some people are different than others. Not sure what point you're making.
I could post an article on Conor McGregor speeding, to suggest some people will speed anyway or something?
The point is that when you read an article of a homeless person dying on the street, you don't know anything about the background. You will have people on websites bemoaning the lack of action of the government, and how it is all Leo Varadkar's fault, when the backstory of the person could well be that they have chronic liver damage caused by years of drug use and that they have been evicted for unsocial behaviour from numerous places or it could be that they are someone who has just recently fallen on hard times. Thing is, we don't know, and just using stories from newspapers of people dying is emotional blackmail to support your position. The fact that people resort to using such stories suggest that they believe the facts don't stand for themselves.0 -
Some of the posts here are borderline psychopathic. People are dying on the streets and people here are suggesting that they are somehow to blame.
The fact is that we have a rental crisis in Dublin and no amount of figure massaging, statistic preaching nonsense can change that.0 -
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The point is that when you read an article of a homeless person dying on the street, you don't know anything about the background. You will have people on websites bemoaning the lack of action of the government, and how it is all Leo Varadkar's fault, when the backstory of the person could well be that they have chronic liver damage caused by years of drug use and that they have been evicted for unsocial behaviour from numerous places or it could be that they are someone who has just recently fallen on hard times. Thing is, we don't know, and just using stories from newspapers of people dying is emotional blackmail to support your position. The fact that people resort to using such stories suggest that they believe the facts don't stand for themselves.
Look at that though. A person posted two homeless were found dead. That's it. A bare fact as I put it. Then we've the 'that's the way it is' 'sure look at yer wan' additions. I think picking individual cases to fit your argument(?) is one thing. Stating two people died is just that. It's not saying Leo did it. It's not saying it's any one persons fault. It's saying two people died on the streets.
if people feel attacked or the need to defend political figures on the back of that, I'd say that says more about them.
As I predicted, we are at the point of character assassination of the victims to deflect from the elected authorities. It's unfair to blame Varadkar for their deaths. I don't think anyone has. It's very fair to criticise policies that aren't helping the issue, as the issue gets worse.
Somebody was hit by a car and died...wait a minute, where they running out in front of the traffic? Not really the first reaction of most humans.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »Look at that though. A person posted two homeless were found dead. That's it. A bare fact as I put it. Then we've the 'that's the way it is' 'sure look at yer wan' additions. I think picking individual cases to fit your argument(?) is one thing. Stating two people died is just that. It's not saying Leo did it. It's not saying it's any one persons fault. It's saying two people died on the streets.
if people feel attacked or the need to defend political figures on the back of that, I'd say that says more about them.
As I predicted, we are at the point of character assassination of the victims to deflect from the elected authorities. It's unfair to blame Varadkar for their deaths. I don't think anyone has. It's very fair to criticise policies that aren't helping the issue, as the issue gets worse.
Somebody was hit by a car and died...wait a minute, where they running out in front of the traffic? Not really the first reaction of most humans.
But you don't criticise policies that aren't helping the issue.
You don't criticise the refusal of the councils in Dublin to apply the full rate of LPT.
You don't criticise the refusal of the councils in Dublin to allow high-density high-rise housing to alleviate the housing problem.
You don't criticise the vast sums of money wasted by the poverty industry on promoting itself and paying large salaries to their executives, some of them paid more than TDs.
You only criticise who you wish to criticise.0 -
https://www.pmvtrust.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/PMVT-Audited-Accounts-2016-2.pdf
Here are the accounts of the Peter McVerry Trust.
Total income in 2016 of €16.3m
€500,000 spent on fundraising costs, out of €5m fundraising. 10% of what you donate goes to the fundraisers.
Staff costs of €11.4m, average salary over €38,000.
CEO on a salary between €90,000 and €100,000. Where does your money go?0 -
https://www.focusireland.ie/about-us/transparency/
Focus Ireland has income of €26m.
€2.3m spent to raise €10.4m in donations!!! 22% of fundraising income given to the fundraisers!!!!
Was a little more difficult to find their financial statements, but here they are:
https://www.focusireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Signed-Focus-Ireland-consolidated-Financial-statements-31-Dec-2016.pdf
€115,000 for the CEO.
383 staff paid €15.7m, an average of around €41k.0 -
Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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https://www.focusireland.ie/about-us/transparency/
Focus Ireland has income of €26m.
€2.3m spent to raise €10.4m in donations!!! 22% of fundraising income given to the fundraisers!!!!
Was a little more difficult to find their financial statements, but here they are:
https://www.focusireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Signed-Focus-Ireland-consolidated-Financial-statements-31-Dec-2016.pdf
€115,000 for the CEO.
383 staff paid €15.7m, an average of around €41k.
Can you provide more relevant stats such as the percentage of their income which goes directly to providing homeless support services?
E.g. I think concern publish how much of their income supports on the ground activities rather than admin think over 80 percent supports work on the ground
Less than 10% of income on fundraising may well be plausible0 -
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Can you provide more relevant stats such as the percentage of their income which goes directly to providing homeless support services?
E.g. I think concern publish how much of their income supports on the ground activities rather than admin think over 80 percent supports work on the ground
Less than 10% of income on fundraising may well be plausible
Here is one, they spend €8.4m on homeless support services. This included case management, 7,740 bed nights of emergency accommodation and their coffee shop.
Say the coffee shop cost €2m, and the case management cost another €2m, that means €4.4m on 7,740 bed nights. Maybe I am working this out wrong, but that would be €568 for each bed night. Pricey.0 -
But you don't criticise policies that aren't helping the issue.
You don't criticise the refusal of the councils in Dublin to apply the full rate of LPT.
You don't criticise the refusal of the councils in Dublin to allow high-density high-rise housing to alleviate the housing problem.
You don't criticise the vast sums of money wasted by the poverty industry on promoting itself and paying large salaries to their executives, some of them paid more than TDs.
You only criticise who you wish to criticise.
I am posting in a thread that relates specifically to Varadkar and as an extension Fine Gael. Also I'm very happy to discuss the housing/homeless crisis, even when varadkar goes on his gap year.
You go to great lengths to defend them at every turn. That's fine, but don't be a hypocrite at my expense.
I think hi-rises are a good idea. Don't recall saying they weren't. They should be metered out the further they move from the city centers.
The poverty industry is the PPP/grants and subsidies for developers and landlords and all the money we spend towards hotels & B&B's. That's the poverty industry, but you won't address that. Rather center on the people not supporting the failed reliance on the private market model. I feel if the councils were Fine Gael Heavy you'd find somewhere else to lay criticism.
*edit*: I am completely against any LPT on a family home. I've posted on this. So of course I won't criticise any councils who don't pursue it.
The idea that if we need something to benefit the worse off in society we need take it in the neck, but if we're funding B&B's and hotels/developers/landlords, that's in the minutia of the usual daily financials, is crap that suits crony government.**
But as is often the agenda, we are deflecting from the fact that nationally led policies need to come from government. Varadkar down played a worsening national crisis and although he didn't create it, he feeds it and certainly isn't helping. Also two people died on the streets.https://www.pmvtrust.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/PMVT-Audited-Accounts-2016-2.pdf
Here are the accounts of the Peter McVerry Trust.
Total income in 2016 of €16.3m
€500,000 spent on fundraising costs, out of €5m fundraising. 10% of what you donate goes to the fundraisers.
Staff costs of €11.4m, average salary over €38,000.
CEO on a salary between €90,000 and €100,000. Where does your money go?
Do you not see how completely one sided this is? How much do we plan to spend through NAMA giving developers larger loans than banks are willing to? Is that the free market? How much in rent subsidies do we have to give low income taxpayers so they can make rent? That's the actual poverty industry but let's focus on the charities who's task is assisting the less well off and not criticise private individuals who's only task is making themselves more money and let's keep funding that while we know it's at best a stop gap measure as the gap widens and Varadkar plays it down out of ignorance and conceit.
Now don't dwell on that, Mick Wallace etc...0 -
But you don't criticise policies that aren't helping the issue.
You don't criticise the refusal of the councils in Dublin to apply the full rate of LPT.
You don't criticise the refusal of the councils in Dublin to allow high-density high-rise housing to alleviate the housing problem.
You don't criticise the vast sums of money wasted by the poverty industry on promoting itself and paying large salaries to their executives, some of them paid more than TDs.
You only criticise who you wish to criticise.
I agree with a lot of this. But I have had a bit of a change of heart on one thing recently. The LPT. I was thinking this should be hiked, the rate is extremely low, yet they are ok hammering low incomes for 51%...
BUT I heard a FG politician mentioned recently that it isnt fair on dubliners, all that money going out of the county. I have to say I agree with her. If the lpt is being hiked, it should be used for Dublin. Dublins services and transport are appalling and one reason for that is the sheer amount thieved out of it, for distribution to the financial black hole that is most of rural ireland...
and we hear dublin gets everything from many idiots! :rolleyes:0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »I agree with a lot of this. But I have had a bit of a change of heart on one thing recently. The LPT. I was thinking this should be hiked, the rate is extremely low, yet they are ok hammering low incomes for 51%...
BUT I heard a FG politician mentioned recently that it isnt fair on dubliners, all that money going out of the county. I have to say I agree with her. If the lpt is being hiked, it should be used for Dublin. Dublins services and transport are appalling and one reason for that is the sheer amount thieved out of it, for distribution to the financial black hole that is most of rural ireland...
and we hear dublin gets everything from many idiots! :rolleyes:
Absolutely agree with you on this. It is dreadful that there is a balancing arrangement that takes some of the money away from Dublin where it is needed most.0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »I agree with a lot of this. But I have had a bit of a change of heart on one thing recently. The LPT. I was thinking this should be hiked, the rate is extremely low, yet they are ok hammering low incomes for 51%...
BUT I heard a FG politician mentioned recently that it isnt fair on dubliners, all that money going out of the county. I have to say I agree with her. If the lpt is being hiked, it should be used for Dublin. Dublins services and transport are appalling and one reason for that is the sheer amount thieved out of it, for distribution to the financial black hole that is most of rural ireland...
and we hear dublin gets everything from many idiots! :rolleyes:
I think it's entirely fair that the LPT should be spread around as it is and that it should be increased,
The only reason the LPT is higher per house in Dublin is because houses are worth more there.
People in Dublin have higher incomes also plus most of the new FDI jobs seem to go to Dublin.
Many Dublin people spend time in the country and benefit from LA spending there.0 -
Only in Ireland would being put up in a hotel every night be considered homeless and being in poverty.
A bit of perspective is sorely needed.
Far too many in this country dependent on the state while the squeezed middle pay for everything and get nothing in return.
People need to learn to live according to their means. Don't like it? Increase your means. Stop putting your hand out.
Too much entitlement and not enough personal responsibility.
The government for their part dont help. Over half a billion euro in the next year being wasted on a social welfare increase and Christmas bonus. Id scrap both and put it back in the pockets of working people.0 -
Good loser wrote: »I think it's entirely fair that the LPT should be spread around as it is and that it should be increased,
The only reason the LPT is higher per house in Dublin is because houses are worth more there.
People in Dublin have higher incomes also plus most of the new FDI jobs seem to go to Dublin.
Many Dublin people spend time in the country and benefit from LA spending there.
I disagree with you.
The LPT should be changed to allow more autonomy to local authorities to vary the charge. That means it would no longer be necessary to divert money from Dublin to the other counties. Dubliners only pay more because their houses are worth more, that doesn't mean they should subsidise the rest of the country.
If the average house in Dublin is worth €300k and the LPT is 1%, the owner pays €300
If the average house in Leitrim is worth €150k and the LPT is 2%, the owner pays €300.
If you eliminated cross-subsidisation and made local authorities accountable for what they raised, homelessness could be substantially addressed through the LPT. Unfortunately, the populist, everything for everybody parties like SF and Solidarity don't see the.0 -
I would like to see LPT paid by everyone, not just homeowners. I’d like to see it run like the UK Rates where it covers things like schools, ambulances, refuse collection etc. I would like to see it charged per head, rather than by value of house. Also differing amounts depending on area. We always have had and always will have rough sleepers. Some cannot be helped. Some need more than a roof over their heads. These are the ones state agencies should be identifying and helping most. All homeless charity workers should be registered and vetted. People doing soup runs off their own bat need to be very careful.0
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Deleted User wrote: »I would like to see LPT paid by everyone, not just homeowners. I’d like to see it run like the UK Rates where it covers things like schools, ambulances, refuse collection etc. I would like to see it charged per head, rather than by value of house. Also differing amounts depending on area. We always have had and always will have rough sleepers. Some cannot be helped. Some need more than a roof over their heads. These are the ones state agencies should be identifying and helping most. All homeless charity workers should be registered and vetted. People doing soup runs off their own bat need to be very careful.
Id scrap property tax and have people pay according to how much they consume and produce. Produce more waste? Pay more. Use more water? Pay more.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I would like to see LPT paid by everyone, not just homeowners. I’d like to see it run like the UK Rates where it covers things like schools, ambulances, refuse collection etc. I would like to see it charged per head, rather than by value of house. Also differing amounts depending on area. We always have had and always will have rough sleepers. Some cannot be helped. Some need more than a roof over their heads. These are the ones state agencies should be identifying and helping most. All homeless charity workers should be registered and vetted. People doing soup runs off their own bat need to be very careful.
I'd add to this in by saying that I would love to see it (and would vote for a party that would consider it) being applied on a land area basis, so the more land you own, it's taxed accordingly.
However, I would like to see it applying to farm land , land banks too.
Also, people with empty properties (speculators) should be forced to make their properties habitable, and let them out or sell them. Simple really.0 -
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I'd add to this in by saying that I would love to see it (and would vote for a party that would consider it) being applied on a land area basis, so the more land you own, it's taxed accordingly.
However, I would like to see it applying to farm land , land banks too.
Also, people with empty properties (speculators) should be forced to make their properties habitable, and let them out or sell them. Simple really.
Personally I wouldn’t agree with farmland (which is being farmed) subject to LPT, But I can see the merit of a higher rate depending on the size of the site.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Personally I wouldn’t agree with farmland (which is being farmed) subject to LPT, But I can see the merit of a higher rate depending on the size of the site.
Well I do recall the home being deemed suitable to tax because 'it's an asset'.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »I am posting in a thread that relates specifically to Varadkar and as an extension Fine Gael. Also I'm very happy to discuss the housing/homeless crisis, even when varadkar goes on his gap year.
You go to great lengths to defend them at every turn. That's fine, but don't be a hypocrite at my expense.
The thread is about blaming Varadkar for homelessness. When it is pointed out - with links - that the blame for homelessness lies elsewhere with the councils and the wasted money given to the poverty industry, you ignore this and revert to an unsubstantiated rant about Varadkar.
That is fine, but don't expect to be taken seriously when you don't back up a single thing you say.Matt Barrett wrote: »
The poverty industry is the PPP/grants and subsidies for developers and landlords and all the money we spend towards hotels & B&B's. That's the poverty industry, but you won't address that. Rather center on the people not supporting the failed reliance on the private market model. I feel if the councils were Fine Gael Heavy you'd find somewhere else to lay criticism.
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The poverty industry are all those homeless charities wasting money year after year and not solving the problem. They seem to want homeless people to justify their existence and their income.Matt Barrett wrote: »
*edit*: I am completely against any LPT on a family home. I've posted on this. So of course I won't criticise any councils who don't pursue it.
The idea that if we need something to benefit the worse off in society we need take it in the neck, but if we're funding B&B's and hotels/developers/landlords, that's in the minutia of the usual daily financials, is crap that suits crony government.**
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Anyone who is against LPT favours those who own homes over those who are homeless. That makes them a hypocrite in my opinion when they complain about homelessness.Matt Barrett wrote: »
But as is often the agenda, we are deflecting from the fact that nationally led policies need to come from government. Varadkar down played a worsening national crisis and although he didn't create it, he feeds it and certainly isn't helping. Also two people died on the streets..
There are nationally led policies. Two of them are the LPT and housing density. The city councils in Dublin fail dismally to implement these two nationally led policies. That is where the failure is.Matt Barrett wrote: »Do you not see how completely one sided this is? How much do we plan to spend through NAMA giving developers larger loans than banks are willing to? Is that the free market? How much in rent subsidies do we have to give low income taxpayers so they can make rent? That's the actual poverty industry but let's focus on the charities who's task is assisting the less well off and not criticise private individuals who's only task is making themselves more money and let's keep funding that while we know it's at best a stop gap measure as the gap widens and Varadkar plays it down out of ignorance and conceit.
Now don't dwell on that, Mick Wallace etc...
Mick Wallace is and was one of the property developers you speak of, who cheated on their taxes, who exploited their workforce and put this country in the mess it is in.0 -
https://www.pmvtrust.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/PMVT-Audited-Accounts-2016-2.pdf
Here are the accounts of the Peter McVerry Trust.
Total income in 2016 of €16.3m
€500,000 spent on fundraising costs, out of €5m fundraising. 10% of what you donate goes to the fundraisers.
Staff costs of €11.4m, average salary over €38,000.
CEO on a salary between €90,000 and €100,000. Where does your money go?https://www.focusireland.ie/about-us/transparency/
Focus Ireland has income of €26m.
€2.3m spent to raise €10.4m in donations!!! 22% of fundraising income given to the fundraisers!!!!
Was a little more difficult to find their financial statements, but here they are:
https://www.focusireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Signed-Focus-Ireland-consolidated-Financial-statements-31-Dec-2016.pdf
€115,000 for the CEO.
383 staff paid €15.7m, an average of around €41k.
I looked at two of the housing charities already. I was wondering if I looked at some more of the main ones, what would be the total funding? So two figures for each one, total income, and income from the state and I will use 2016 where available:
Peter McVerry - €16.3m total income, €10.3m from the State
Focus Ireland - €26.4m, €12.8m
Simon Community National - €0.61m, €0.1m
Dublin Simon - €15.4m, €7.5m CEO on €93k
Cork Simon - €8.1m, €3.4m, CEO on €93k
Mid-West Simon, confusing accounts, but they appeared to get €800k in grants.
Merchants Quay Project - €6.4m, €3.4m 4 people earning over €90k
Franciscan Social Justice - €3.6m, €2.5m
Crosscare - €25m, €20m, 2 people earning over €95k
Novas - €8.6m, €7.6m, CEO on €82k
Threshold - €2.3m, €1.6m, CEO over €80k
Ok, let's just leave it there, those are only a few of the housing charities, albeit the main ones. Their total income is over €110m per year!!!!! How the hell is the housing problem not solved by now.0 -
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Some of the posts here are borderline psychopathic. People are dying on the streets and people here are suggesting that they are somehow to blame.
The fact is that we have a rental crisis in Dublin and no amount of figure massaging, statistic preaching nonsense can change that.
Some people just don't care. They'd happily see more dying on the streets and not bat an eyelid. It doesn't affect them, so it's not an issue.
You'll never reach any mind like that.0 -
Some people just don't care. They'd happily see more dying on the streets and not bat an eyelid. It doesn't affect them, so it's not an issue.
You'll never reach any mind like that.
I haven't seen a single person on here like that.
It is a scurrilous accusation lacking in any substance.
There is nobody on here not caring about homelessness. Some of them just refuse to join in the simplistic solutions proposed by the eternal whingers of the left.0 -
I haven't seen a single person on here like that.
It is a scurrilous accusation lacking in any substance.
There is nobody on here not caring about homelessness. Some of them just refuse to join in the simplistic solutions proposed by the eternal whingers of the left.
There's no point in you replying to any of my posts on these forums. You are on ignore.
I've had enough of your dishonesty and spoofing.0 -
There's no point in you replying to any of my posts on these forums. You are on ignore.
I've had enough of your dishonesty and spoofing.
I often wonder why people bother with the “ignore” button rather than debate their points.
The homeless situation where people find themselves living in hotels is completely different to those sleeping on the streets. Some of those stuck in hotels could do more to help themselves, as in appeal to families or move to another part of the country. The excuse is usually not wanting to move away from the family that doesn’t want them living with them.
Rough sleepers usually have issues with mental health, drug and or drug addiction. Helping them needs totally different skills and realistically, rough sleepers will always be there.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I often wonder why people bother with the “ignore” button rather than debate their points.
First time I've used it. I'm done with that poster. Absolutely none of their content is worth bothering with.Deleted User wrote: »The homeless situation where people find themselves living in hotels is completely different to those sleeping on the streets. Some of those stuck in hotels could do more to help themselves, as in appeal to families or move to another part of the country. The excuse is usually not wanting to move away from the family that doesn’t want them living with them.
Rough sleepers usually have issues with mental health, drug and or drug addiction. Helping them needs totally different skills and realistically, rough sleepers will always be there.
I'd wager that you know none of the people that you are talking about and yet you've boxed them off into handy little stereotypes.
Sure, there will be people who will always fall through the cracks. The issue facing us, at the moment, is the rising volume and absence of a viable answer from those responsible for the running of the state.
The bigger factor is that, as a society, we are failing to house our citizens. That needs to be acted upon. The problem is we have a political class that don't seem to be too bothered - largely because it isn't anything that affects them.0
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