Joe Brolly and Eamonn Dunphy are not fans of Barry McGuigan

walshb · 25-11-2017 01:13PM

elmomcgrath wrote: »

The armed struggled wasn't futile, it's what finally brought about equal treatment for the nationalist population in the north whether people want to admit it or not.

I agree. But those who wanted to do it without an armed struggle are also very admirable. Barry was just a sportsman caught up in it all. For me his behavior was both admirable and impeccable.. he was a man who just liked people. No malice, hate or nastiness, and it took bravery in those times to be like that.

elmomcgrath · 25-11-2017 01:14PM

Billy86 wrote: »

As someone without much interest in either boxing or GAA, I can absolutely agree with this. I was born in 1986 and knew who McGuigan was as far back as I knew who Sonya O'Sullivan, Eddie Irvine or anyone on the early/mid 90s football team was. I've seen the Darby goal here and there down the years and it was a huge moment in GAA but it's not even near the level of accolade that McGuigan's was.

Also to be a pedant, I thought the keeper could have done a lot better on the goal and the commentator's voice is in my opinion absolutely awful - but that's just me.

And yet it got far less votes in this poll of the public.

walshb · 25-11-2017 01:17PM

elmomcgrath wrote: »

And yet it got far less votes in this poll of the public.

So what...

Who’s voting? GAA people, or people who may want to just support the whole Irishness of the GAA?

Take any poll anywhere and ask general people to pick Darby out of a lineup and next to nobody would. Barry would be picked out by anyone who is of a certain age..he is far more known..

I am not a GAA fan, although I have huge admiration for them. Maybe it’s just me, but I always got the feeling that a huge portion of people “supporting” or watching it are doing it more out of a duty and to be seen to be popular and with the crowd as opposed to actually genuinely liking the game..

Similar to rugby of recent years. It just lacks sincerity.

harpsman · 25-11-2017 01:21PM

elmomcgrath wrote: »

They remember the goal.

The goal is the moment.That is what the program is about.

Sporting moments are about drama and you don't get many irish sporting moments as dramatic as Seamus Darbys goal.

You’re right. It was the greatest gaa “moment” of all time. I’m not from Kerry or Offaly and I would regularly stick it on YouTube. Even the emotion in Micheal O Heirs voice makes the hairs stand up.
It doesn’t have to be an international achievement to be memorable- how many people remember John Treacy s world cross country?-even though it is a much greater achievement.
Kevin Foley’s goal was the only other gaa moment that stands up to it.

walshb · 25-11-2017 01:26PM

Btw, the Super Bowl comparison to the AA final. Similar in a national sense, but not at all comparable on the global scene. AA final is our day. The Super Bowl is the world’s day..

harpsman · 25-11-2017 01:26PM

elmomcgrath wrote: »

The armed struggled wasn't futile, it's what finally brought about equal treatment for the nationalist population in the north whether people want to admit it or not.

Ok well I’m not going to ruin the thread by getting into a political row-I’m happy to do that somewhere elseðŸ˜Š I was just giving what I think is the reason for Brollys hatred. Certainly some of the things he’s said would suggest that.

Billy86 · 25-11-2017 01:28PM

walshb wrote: »

Who’s voting? GAA people, or people who may want to just support the whole Irishness of the GAA?

Take any poll anywhere and ask general people to pick Darby out of a lineup and next to nobody would. Barry would be picked out by anyone who is of a certain age..he is far more known..

Exactly. Not even that, ask them 'what is Sheamus Darby famous for' vs 'what is Barry McGuigan famous for'. Or 'what Irish boxer won the world featherweight boxing title in 1985' vs 'which Offaly player kicked the winning goal in the 1982 All Ireland final'.

walshb · 25-11-2017 01:31PM

harpsman wrote: »

Ok well I’m not going to ruin the thread by getting into a political row-I’m happy to do that somewhere else�� I was just giving what I think is the reason for Brollys hatred. Certainly some of the things he’s said would suggest that.

Just to be clear. Hate is a nasty word. Brolly “may” hate Barry, but let’s not claim this. Brolly said he didn’t like him. You can not like people without having to hate them.

harpsman · 25-11-2017 01:31PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Exactly. Not even that, ask them 'what is Sheamus Darby famous for' vs 'what is Barry McGuigan famous for'. Or 'what Irish boxer won the world featherweight boxing title in 1985' vs 'which Offaly player kicked the winning goal in the 1982 All Ireland final'.

I’m not sure what your point is. There are plenty of people who could talk about the Darby goal and wouldn’t know the specifics of McGuigans career. And vice versa

walshb · 25-11-2017 01:34PM

harpsman wrote: »

I’m not sure what your point is. There are plenty of people who could talk about the Darby goal and wouldn’t know the specifics of McGuigans career. And vice versa

Plenty of a more specific kind. That is the point. Overall and generally Barry much more known..

GAA fans, sports fans, non sports fans and general people can all relate to Barry and know of him..

No way you can say that for Darby..

harpsman · 25-11-2017 01:35PM

walshb wrote: »

Just to be clear. Hate is a nasty word. Brolly “may” hate Barry, but let’s not claim this. Brolly said he didn’t like him. You can not like people without having to hate them.

Hate is a nasty word but joe and Eamon are certainly nasty people. But sure, he might just dislike Barry, but if you’re saying on tv that you don’t like someone personally it usually means it’s a bit stronger than general dislike

walshb · 25-11-2017 01:36PM

Be interesting to know the Irish viewing figures for Barry’s fight vs. the AA final of ‘82...

Billy86 · 25-11-2017 01:41PM

walshb wrote: »

Btw, the Super Bowl comparison to the AA final. Similar in a national sense, but not at all comparable on the global scene. AA final is our day. The Super Bowl is the world’s day..

Wow, had to go back because I didn't fully believe you that someone made the comparison! If I'm correct, the Superbowl is almost guaranteed on to be the most watched sports event on the planet every year where a World Cup isn't on (though a Champions League final might come close?). Even Dublin city centre these days is fairly busy for a late, late Sunday night in early February when the weather is usually at it's worst, which is a pretty big jump from when I started watching the game.

The All Ireland had a record 1.3mn viewers this year, while the Superbowl had it's lowest numbers in three years - 'just' 172mn in the US alone (also a considerably higher percentage of their population) while an estimated though probably somewhat exaggerated 1 billion watch it globally... my guess would be somewhere in the 800mn region.

What you outlined is also the reason I would typically say international achievements would typically trump domestic ones in a smaller country such as ours.

harpsman · 25-11-2017 01:43PM

Maybe it’s just my age but all my favorite moments are from the 80s-
Ginger Mcloughlin try at Twickenham.
Gerry Armstrong goal against Spain.
Seamus Darby goal
McGuigan downing Pedroza
Roches climb to LaPlagne
Houghton goal in Stuttgart

The only other moments that compares for me are Donegal’s First All Ireland in 92(personal) and Packies penalty save

Billy86 · 25-11-2017 01:44PM

harpsman wrote: »

I’m not sure what your point is. There are plenty of people who could talk about the Darby goal and wouldn’t know the specifics of McGuigans career. And vice versa

That is my point though - there isn't. You'd be very, very hard pressed to find more than a handful of people 30 or older unaware that McGuigan was world boxing champion. You'd have little trouble finding plenty who don't know who Darby is at all, or who couldn't tell you won the 1982 final, who scored the winner, or even why it was a significant game. McGuigan's achievements saw him transcend the sport within Ireland, Darby's didn't.

elmomcgrath · 25-11-2017 01:47PM

walshb wrote: »

So what...

Who’s voting? GAA people, or people who may want to just support the whole Irishness of the GAA?

Take any poll anywhere and ask general people to pick Darby out of a lineup and next to nobody would. Barry would be picked out by anyone who is of a certain age..he is far more known..

I am not a GAA fan, although I have huge admiration for them. Maybe it’s just me, but I always got the feeling that a huge portion of people “supporting” or watching it are doing it more out of a duty and to be seen to be popular and with the crowd as opposed to actually genuinely liking the game..

Similar to rugby of recent years. It just lacks sincerity.

The general public are the ones who are voting, which includes people who like Gaelic Games and people who may not.

Seamus Darby has barely been in the public since his goal, he had one moment of fame and that was all.Barry McGuigan is in public constantly so it's obvious he would have more general recognition. Again as I pointed out earlier it has nothing the do with fame of the indivdual it's about a moment of sport.

Gaelic Football and hurling are the 2 best attended sports in this country, the AI football final was the most watched TV programme in ireland this year I don't think there is anything insincere about people who follow GAA, they could easily do something else when matches are on if they wanted to.The womens football final had about 50k in attendance this year.

Gaelic games are much much bigger than boxing in this country and therefore you are obviously going to get more votes for a GAA moment as it means more to the general public here than boxing does.

Billy86 · 25-11-2017 02:24PM

elmomcgrath wrote: »

Gaelic Football and hurling are the 2 best attended sports in this country, the AI football final was the most watched TV programme in ireland this year I don't think there is anything insincere about people who follow GAA, they could easily do something else when matches are on if they wanted to.The womens football final had about 50k in attendance this year.

Gaelic games are much much bigger than boxing in this country and therefore you are obviously going to get more votes for a GAA moment as it means more to the general public here than boxing does.

It's a fair point though I took a peek and interestingly the all Ireland broke the record or viewership at 1.3mn this year, but before that it appears to have been our 2015 Rugby World Cup game against France at 1.2mn. Last year, the France, Italy and Sweden games in the Euros all got higher ratings than the final (the Belgium game also got more than the replay, which was fifth). In 2014 it was Ireland vs France in the rugby again, and then in 2013 it was the GAA again.

The Austria game was the only real competition for GAA this year but I can't find the ratings for the second leg (first leg was just under 1.07mn I think it said) as other sports are quiet, though the McGregor fight a few months back while not on RTE was the second most purchased boxing PPV of all time.

Anyway just found it interesting.

mikeysmith · 25-11-2017 03:10PM

harpsman wrote: »

Hate is a nasty word but joe and Eamon are certainly nasty people. But sure, he might just dislike Barry, but if you’re saying on tv that you don’t like someone personally it usually means it’s a bit stronger than general dislike

Brolly travels all over the country doing charity work for free ,he's not all bad

SuperSean11 · 25-11-2017 03:13PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Not sure if this has been discussed here, but I watched last week's episode of Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment, and Joe Brolly and Eamonn Dunphy lambasted Barry McGuigan.

Is this criticism valid?

Brolly went so far to say "I don't like the man".

https://www.balls.ie/boxing/joe-brolly-eamon-dunphy-barry-mcguigan-377408

You lost me at Joe Brolly

walshb · 25-11-2017 03:32PM

mikeysmith wrote: »

Brolly travels all over the country doing charity work for free ,he's not all bad

That’s great. He still came across as a pr1ck on the show.

Sweet Science · 29-11-2017 01:09PM

walshb wrote: »

So what...

Who’s voting? GAA people, or people who may want to just support the whole Irishness of the GAA?

Take any poll anywhere and ask general people to pick Darby out of a lineup and next to nobody would. Barry would be picked out by anyone who is of a certain age..he is far more known..

I am not a GAA fan, although I have huge admiration for them. Maybe it’s just me, but I always got the feeling that a huge portion of people “supporting” or watching it are doing it more out of a duty and to be seen to be popular and with the crowd as opposed to actually genuinely liking the game..

Similar to rugby of recent years. It just lacks sincerity.

LOL

walshb · 29-11-2017 01:20PM

Sweet Science wrote: »

LOL

It's why only the crowds/fans seem to be so enthused come semi finals and finals day...

Joe_ Public · 29-11-2017 02:51PM

walshb wrote: »

It's why only the crowds/fans seem to be so enthused come semi finals and finals day...

In fairness I think you’re merely describing the well known fair weather supporting syndrome which isn’t unique to any one sport. It’s the same reason the stadium would be half empty on national finals night but you wouldn’t get a ticket for love nor money if, say, Katie Taylor was boxing for Olympic gold in Dublin.

walshb · 29-11-2017 03:11PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

In fairness I think you’re merely describing the well known fair weather supporting syndrome which isn’t unique to any one sport. It’s the same reason the stadium would be half empty on national finals night but you wouldn’t get a ticket for love nor money if, say, Katie Taylor was boxing for Olympic gold in Dublin.

I know. The same can be said for many sports. I juts happen to think GAA exhibits it more than a lot. Mainly due to the OTT claiming of it being "your sport". It's part of our identity, and will see people feign interest and feign excitement around it.

Joe_ Public · 29-11-2017 04:00PM

walshb wrote: »

I know. The same can be said for many sports. I juts happen to think GAA exhibits it more than a lot. Mainly due to the OTT claiming of it being "your sport". It's part of our identity, and will see people feign interest and feign excitement around it.

Don’t know if you’re right or not but feign is a loaded word. Maybe the reason you might get more of them in sports like gaa or rugby (Munster anybody?) is the pure social aspect of it, the promise that there’s going to be a good p!ss up, win or lose. Either way, I don’t believe it’s entirely accurate to say they’re feigning it.

walshb · 29-11-2017 04:16PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Don’t know if you’re right or not but feign is a loaded word. Maybe the reason you might get more of them in sports like gaa or rugby (Munster anybody?) is the pure social aspect of it, the promise that there’s going to be a good p!ss up, win or lose. Either way, I don’t believe it’s entirely accurate to say they’re feigning it.

Many are feigning it. Of course they are....it's not a dig at them. It's the truth. Part of the gang, the click, the kool kids...not a sniff of genuine interest in the sport. You said it yourself. The social aspect of it. The piss up....that's exactly what it is to many, hence feigning an actual sporting interest.

Joe_ Public · 29-11-2017 04:50PM

walshb wrote: »

Many are feigning it. Of course they are....it's not a dig at them. It's the truth. Part of the gang, the click, the kool kids...not a sniff of genuine interest in the sport. You said it yourself. The social aspect of it. The piss up....that's exactly what it is to many, hence feigning an actual sporting interest.

Yes but if that is the case I still don’t get why you suggest this is particularly prevalent in Gaa. In fact I think the best example of what you describe would be a world title fight with its tiered rows of celebrities and beautiful people all trussed up for the cameras. The higher profile the occasion, the greater the proportion of event junkies. That is a truism for all sports, not just one.

walshb · 29-11-2017 04:54PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes but if that is the case I still don’t get why you suggest this is particularly prevalent in Gaa. In fact I think the best example of what you describe would be a world title fight with its tiered rows of celebrities and beautiful people all trussed up for the cameras. The higher profile the occasion, the greater the proportion of event junkies. That is a truism for all sports, not just one.

I just don't see the boxing example as a comparison. Big fights have always attracted stars from all walks of life. That is the fight game. It's like no other for this. I am well aware that many are there with next to no interest or passion for the sport. It's the event.

In Ireland I think it's more clearly prevalent in GAA, and always has been. A huge "following" from non followers...

Joe_ Public · 29-11-2017 05:04PM

walshb wrote: »

I just don't see the boxing example as a comparison. Big fights have always attracted stars from all walks of life. That is the fight game. It's like no other for this. I am well aware that many are there with next to no interest or passion for the sport. It's the event.

In Ireland I think it's more clearly prevalent in GAA, and always has been. A huge "following" from non followers...

So basically big boxing fights attract lots of “non followers” seduced by the event and minor fights don’t. I still don’t get why that’s any different to big Gaa matches attracting much bigger crowds than small ones. I think I am missing something here but don’t know what it could be.

walshb · 29-11-2017 05:05PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

So basically big boxing fights attract lots of “non followers” seduced by the event and minor fights don’t. I still don’t get why that’s any different to big Gaa matches attracting much bigger crowds than small ones. I think I am missing something here but don’t know what it could be.

You're missing nothing.....stop looking.

All sports attract "fake" fans......

GAA for me stands out here in Ireland.....

Joe Brolly and Eamonn Dunphy are not fans of Barry McGuigan

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