Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 10:38AM

It's hilarious watching FG and their supporters blaming everyone except themselves for the currant mess. McCabe has been rumbling along for several years now but it's almost as if FG only heard about it recently.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 10:43AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It's hilarious watching FG and their supporters blaming everyone except themselves for the currant mess. McCabe has been rumbling along for several years now but it's almost as if FG only heard about it recently.

It is hilarious. Most FG supporters I know wish McCabe would just disappear - they care little about fixing Gardai corruption.

Roger_007 · 24-11-2017 10:46AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It's hilarious watching FG and their supporters blaming everyone except themselves for the currant mess. McCabe has been rumbling along for several years now but it's almost as if FG only heard about it recently.

FF would need to be careful about making the McCabe saga an issue in an election, (if there is one). The whole mess started on their watch. SF also have a murky past when it comes to their relations with the Gardai.
None of the principle players have clean hands.

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 10:51AM

Roger_007 wrote:

FF would need to be careful about making the McCabe saga an issue in an election, (if there is one). The whole mess started on their watch. SF also have a murky past when it comes to their relations with the Gardai. None of the principle players have clean hands.

McCabe won't be an election issue. Housing, homelessness and hospital trollies. These alone are enough to give FG a few troublesome home truths.

smurgen · 24-11-2017 10:52AM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

It is hilarious. Most FG supporters I know wish McCabe would just disappear - they care little about fixing Gardai corruption.

Probably just hoped the rumours about him would gain traction and he'd off himself.lovely carryon. Fair play to the man for working diligently and keeping tabs on all the falsified allegations.

smurgen · 24-11-2017 10:54AM

Jawgap wrote: »

We've never done accountability in this country - if we did we'd be a lot better for it.

The blame for the mess lies with Fitzgerald, Flannagan and the DoJ......but the blame for any election will be laid full square at the door of the Shinners.

Personally, I think a more nuanced approach would have been better. The Shinners should have left her where she was then played a long game with her as a very convenient target. You never know what else is going to come out of the DoJ, plus it would have given them time to get their new leader in harness and moved the denouement to Spring, a more election friendly season.

You're all over the place.why not blame McCabe too while you're at it?

satguy · 24-11-2017 10:55AM

I think FF & SF are bang on here, and that maybe its time for FG to spend some some time on the opposition benches.

I also don't think that Leo has performed the way FG would have liked.

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 10:56AM

satguy wrote:

I also don't think that Leo has performed the way FG would have liked.

I don't think Leo has ever preformed. Great guy for the odd sound bite but zero achievements.

Jayop · 24-11-2017 11:06AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

FF would need to be careful about making the McCabe saga an issue in an election, (if there is one). The whole mess started on their watch. SF also have a murky past when it comes to their relations with the Gardai.
None of the principle players have clean hands.

The irony of responding to a post about FG trying to pass the blame to anyone but themselves with a post passing the blame to anyone but themselves.

whisky_galore · 24-11-2017 11:07AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

McCabe won't be an election issue. Housing, homelessness and hospital trollies. These alone are enough to give FG a few troublesome home truths.

The 'haves', those who have an actual stake in society, want to maintain their interests and property prices....they may shake their heads about what a shame we have so many 'have-nots' and homeless...but they're not overly worried about regime change or prepared to share the wealth around in the form of 'free' houses or anything else.

The 'haves' don't have to worry about waiting lists, they just use their wealth to leap-frog everyone else.

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 11:10AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It's hilarious watching FG and their supporters blaming everyone except themselves for the currant mess. McCabe has been rumbling along for several years now but it's almost as if FG only heard about it recently.

Ah no, lots have people have been raisin it

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 11:15AM

smurgen wrote: »

You're all over the place.why not blame McCabe too while you're at it?

Not at all. Fitzgerald and, to a lesser extent Flannagan, have cases to answer.

How they are made to answer is a separate but related matter. The shinners rushed in with their no confidence motion, that's one way of dealing with it. As I said, less immature politicians realise the potentialities of the situation which is why they are taking a more considered approach to see what else might emerge and/or what other collateral damage they might inflict.

Equally, the time allows FF to assess their position and, crucially, take the temperature locally at the constituency level.

tomwaterford · 24-11-2017 11:20AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Not at all. Fitzgerald and, to a lesser extent Flannagan, have cases to answer.

How they are made to answer is a separate but related matter. The shinners rushed in with their no confidence motion, that's one way of dealing with it. As I said, less immature politicians realise the potentialities of the situation which is why they are taking a more considered approach to see what else might emerge and/or what other collateral damage they might inflict.

Equally, the time allows FF to assess their position and, crucially, take the temperature locally at the constituency level.

Afaik sf had there motion tabled for Wednesday, ff have brought it forward to Tuesday

And your trying to present it as sf pushing the issue?? (how is this bad

)

While conviently ignoring a politian saying they support whistle-blower to full protection of the state....while they simultaneously set out and approved plans to destroy said whistle blowers reputation in worst way possible???

But the main issue In your mind is that the opposition want to hold them to account??

tobsey · 24-11-2017 11:21AM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

It is hilarious. Most FG supporters I know wish McCabe would just disappear - they care little about fixing Gardai corruption.

The same FG that effectively fired a Garda Commissioner for the first time in the history of the state, and also set up the commission of inquiry to investigate McCabe's case? That makes no sense from you. I'm pretty sure you made those FG supporter's and their opinions up.

If McCabe finally sees justice then most right minded voters will see that as a win. It would show FG are actually doing something about the Gards and voters would respect that.

tobsey · 24-11-2017 11:25AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm not bitter at all. it's called pragmatism.

A party with more experience of legislative and government politics would have realised the value of leaving a lame-duck in place, and the importance of timing. Hence FF's stroll towards their no confidence motion.

Rushing in like a sugar fueled toddler with no impulse control betrays a certain lack of maturity on the part of the shinners.

I have to disagree with your point on FF's strategy. SF gave them nearly 24 hours to make their move and they waited until after SF annonced their motion. FF are simply playing the SF tune. FF have given FG two of the three promised budgets and now are using this relatively minor issue to bring about an election.

I'm not saying the Fitzgerald ignoring the Garda policy of attacking McCabe is a minor issue in itself, but I don't think it's enough to justify bringing down a government of less than two years just to play politics.

seamus · 24-11-2017 11:30AM

There's no way FF will allow an election to be called. SF's bluff has been called here; they're rudderless with no good leadership candidates in the offing. Micheal Martin is probably seen as a steady hand for FF, but FF are offering nothing to anyone outside of their core vote.

FG as the governing party are of course the ones with it all to lose. But the economy is on the up, people have more money, people are making more money. And the "Thatcher" badge that the far-left have been attempting to stick onto Leo hasn't been holding. He has the highest profile of any of the leaders, and recent polls suggest he is far more popular than any of the others and than any party leader in many years.

This would be a really stupid time for FF to allow an election to be called. By the numbers, FG are the only party who stand to gain anything.

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 11:36AM

Jawgap wrote:

Ah no, lots have people have been raisin it

Didn't realise the pettiness of pointing out spelling errors was so important to you. Of course a misspelled word totally invalidates a comment.

tobsey · 24-11-2017 11:37AM

seamus wrote: »

There's no way FF will allow an election to be called. SF's bluff has been called here; they're rudderless with no good leadership candidates in the offing. Micheal Martin is probably seen as a steady hand for FF, but FF are offering nothing to anyone outside of their core vote.

FG as the governing party are of course the ones with it all to lose. But the economy is on the up, people have more money, people are making more money. And the "Thatcher" badge that the far-left have been attempting to stick onto Leo hasn't been holding. He has the highest profile of any of the leaders, and recent polls suggest he is far more popular than any of the others and than any party leader in many years.

This would be a really stupid time for FF to allow an election to be called. By the numbers, FG are the only party who stand to gain anything.

I'd agree with all that. Why are FF doing what they're doing so. If they support the SF motion, or SF supports theirs, it doesn't look like Varadkar will have a choice but to go to the Park.

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 11:38AM

seamus wrote:

FG as the governing party are of course the ones with it all to lose. But the economy is on the up, people have more money, people are making more money. And the "Thatcher" badge that the far-left have been attempting to stick onto Leo hasn't been holding. He has the highest profile of any of the leaders, and recent polls suggest he is far more popular than any of the others and than any party leader in many years.

Homelessness on the up, unaffordable housing on the up, people waiting on trollies on the up. All good for FG, plenty to gain in a GE. ; )

buried · 24-11-2017 11:39AM

seamus wrote: »

There's no way FF will allow an election to be called. SF's bluff has been called here; they're rudderless with no good leadership candidates in the offing. Micheal Martin is probably seen as a steady hand for FF, but FF are offering nothing to anyone outside of their core vote.

FG as the governing party are of course the ones with it all to lose. But the economy is on the up, people have more money, people are making more money. And the "Thatcher" badge that the far-left have been attempting to stick onto Leo hasn't been holding. He has the highest profile of any of the leaders, and recent polls suggest he is far more popular than any of the others and than any party leader in many years.

This would be a really stupid time for FF to allow an election to be called. By the numbers, FG are the only party who stand to gain anything.

Exactly, If they have nothing to worry about then they should just call an election then, no? Get a proper mandate. Judge the actual reality of how the electorate are feeling.

seamus · 24-11-2017 11:45AM

buried wrote: »

Exactly, If they have nothing to worry about then they should just call an election then, no? Get a proper mandate. Judge the actual reality of how the electorate are feeling.

Why would a party in government call an election unless they had to?

That's playing political games at the expense of stability. Look at the UK - the tories called an election and hurt the brexit negotiation process, just for political games. And they got paddled for it.

If a government called a new election every time the polls said they were popular, you'd get nothing done.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Homelessness on the up, unaffordable housing on the up, people waiting on trollies on the up. All good for FG, plenty to gain in a GE. ; )

Yep. And not a single other party has put forward workable proposals to fix any of them.

Anyone who believes that FF or SF (hah!) could take over and fix these things inside of the term of one government is delusional.

buried · 24-11-2017 11:48AM

seamus wrote: »

Why would a party in government call an election unless they had to?

That's playing political games at the expense of stability. Look at the UK - the tories called an election and hurt the brexit negotiation process, just for political games. And they got paddled for it.

If a government called a new election every time the polls said they were popular, you'd get nothing done.

But sure that won't happen here will it? Like you said - Ain't the place swimming in cash in everyone's pockets and the streets is paved with gold and the moon is made of cheese? lol We all know the real reason why FG don't want an election man, "getting nothing done" is nothing new to this shower

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 11:49AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Didn't realise the pettiness of pointing out spelling errors was so important to you. Of course a misspelled word totally invalidates a comment.

only when its funny

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 11:50AM

seamus wrote:

Yep. And not a single other party has put forward workable proposals to fix any of them.

FG have been in government for the last 6 plus years, they set the policy not the opposition.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 11:53AM

tobsey wrote: »

The same FG that effectively fired a Garda Commissioner for the first time in the history of the state, and also set up the commission of inquiry to investigate McCabe's case? That makes no sense from you. I'm pretty sure you made those FG supporter's and their opinions up.

If McCabe finally sees justice then most right minded voters will see that as a win. It would show FG are actually doing something about the Gards and voters would respect that.

Effectively fired? You're having a laugh. She hung on until her pension pot was maxed.

O'Sullivan resigned in September 2017 with a golden handshake pension.
In October 2017 the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) announced that Nóirín O’Sullivan has been appointed to the newly-created role of Director of Strategic Partnerships for Europe, to begin work later in 2017 and to be based in Ireland, the first time a member of the IACP's staff has been based outside the United States.

The 2 senior Gardai that lied to discredit McCabe in O'Higgins Commission were never brought to account.
Yesterday we found out that transcripts of the O’Higgins Commission supplied to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission for its investigation into the Mullingar meeting incident were missing crucial pages (relating of course to the Garda lies).

McCabe was never happy with the terms of reference on the the Charleton Tribunal and that was ignored by FG in their haste to kick the can down the road.

FG have handled the McCabe case horribly (and I haven't mentioned Tusla).

One question: What message is being sent by the state to any future "whistleblowers"??

seamus · 24-11-2017 11:53AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

FG have been in government for the last 6 plus years, they set the policy not the opposition.

Ah yes, the "it's my job to criticise, not come up with solutions" defence.

Tell me, how can we trust any other parties to get anything done if all they do is complain and not put forward solutions of their own?

You can't. So basically you're agreeing with me that the other parties have no solutions. So that's why we should give them the reins...?

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 11:55AM

seamus wrote:

Ah yes, the "it's my job to criticise, not come up with solutions" defence.

It's the opposition's job to hold the government to account.

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 11:57AM

seamus wrote:

You can't. So basically you're agreeing with me that the other parties have no solutions. So that's why we should give them the reins...?

What kind of a nonsense comment is this. The government enacts policy not the opposition . Although of course I do realise spreading the blame is a tactic to take focus off incumbents.

McMurphy · 24-11-2017 12:05PM

Simon Coveney basically confirmed a pre Christmas election is happening earlier on morning Ireland.

He said if FF vote with SF or carry through with their own no confidence motion, the confidence and supply agreement is finished.

FF have officially tabled that motion now. So an election is all but inevitable unless Frances is cut loose.

I look forward to hearing Leo try to normalise the homeless crisis during an election campaign.

SEPT 23 1989 · 24-11-2017 12:06PM

Election time

Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

Comments