Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

_Kaiser_ · 24-11-2017 08:48AM

Leo is all spin and soundbites. The media love him because he's always been good for a comment (usually about someone else's department), but he achieved f-all in the 2 ministries he held under Enda.

I genuinely can't believe how many people are taken in by it to be honest.

buried · 24-11-2017 08:54AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Leo is all spin and soundbites. The media love him because he's always been good for a comment (usually about someone else's department), but he achieved f-all in the 2 ministries he held under Enda.

I genuinely can't believe how many people are taken in by it to be honest.

Yeah, IMO a good section of people think that any Doctor is some sort of infallible Rockstar

24-11-2017 08:56AM

Won't make a difference if FF or FG are in government.

The interesting thing here is Adams resigning, and SF changing their tack recently about going into government as a junior partner. Too many coincidences for me.

FF and SF strike a deal behind the scenes?

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 08:57AM

Edward M wrote: »

Its odd to compare it that way! The situation is totally different.

Indeed, May was greedy and went for snap election.

If we have one FF and FG will lay the blame where it belongs, at the feet of the Shinners and their political posturing......so thanks to them, if it goes ahead, we'll have to put up with an election campaign in the run up to Christmas as well as....

.....disruption to the Brexit talks just as we should be getting the border question sorted - the Brits will likely look to get it kicked to phase 2, where we've no veto (unlikely the EU will wait for us to have an election and sort a government out)

.....more delays on repealing the 8th

....foregoing of the promised tax cuts from Budget (legislation hasn't passed)

.....likewise no pension increase (should go down well with the demographic who are the most active voters)

Sounds like the Shinners have kneecapped themselves in pushing this just a bit too far

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 08:58AM

Anyone notice Simon Harris frantically coaching Frances in the Dail yesterday?

Really odd and unusual that and a sign of the real 'confidence' FG have in her. It was like the class swot was sent to keep her safe.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:04AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Indeed, May was greedy and went for snap election.

If we have one FF and FG will lay the blame where it belongs, at the feet of the Shinners and their political posturing......so thanks to them, if it goes ahead, we'll have to put up with an election campaign in the run up to Christmas as well as....

.....disruption to the Brexit talks just as we should be getting the border question sorted - the Brits will likely look to get it kicked to phase 2, where we've no veto (unlikely the EU will wait for us to have an election and sort a government out)

.....more delays on repealing the 8th

....foregoing of the promised tax cuts from Budget (legislation hasn't passed)

.....likewise no pension increase (should go down well with the demographic who are the most active voters)

Sounds like the Shinners have kneecapped themselves in pushing this just a bit too far

QED.

No picturs with that post Jawgap? Shame. Eoin could have done with a few picturs from the conflict/war last night on Prime Time.

If Leo was in the least bit concerned with all the above he would have simply dealt, with what was at best massive incompetence in the Justice ministry, but no, we'll brazen it out.

tomwaterford · 24-11-2017 09:10AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Indeed, May was greedy and went for snap election.

If we have one FF and FG will lay the blame where it belongs, at the feet of the Shinners

Personally would've taught blame for this lies with taniste??

At what point did we stop expecting political accountability from the politians elected to the dail....mustve missed that memo

(What they've attempted to smear McCabe with is about as bad as it gets.....literally same thing could happen to any member of the country who has audacity to stand up now and try expose corruption/wrong doing....and this is sf fault...wtf?)

But do agree sf are in no position to fight an election....none of parties are

VinLieger · 24-11-2017 09:13AM

Bambi wrote: »

Do you have some notion that if you keep repeating the same thing over and over it will somehow become credible?

I know right, its never worked for SF either "what bodies? The disappeared? we wouldn't know about any of that..... hey look over here at some Socialism"

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 09:13AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

QED.

No picturs with that post Jawgap? Shame. Eoin could have done with a few picturs from the conflict/war last night on Prime Time.

If Leo was in the least bit concerned with all the above he would have simply dealt, with what was at best massive incompetence in the Justice ministry, but no, we'll brazen it out.

yeah, it's pretty clear this is now an FF-FG matter. SF have rendered themselves irrelevant yet again.....as I said, the noisy kids in the garden.

I reckon this plays out over the weekend (that's why FF put the n/c motion off until next week) when they all troop off to their constituencies and hear how no one wants an election.

Then Fitzgerald resigns, "nobly" putting national interests and the interests of the party (and probably a few other things, including an honourable mention for the 8th) ahead of her own interests......probably some guff about looking forward to being vindicated......then off she'll go, do her time in purgatory to return after the next election (probably 2019 when the C&S agreement expires and FF decline to renew).

I'd imagine that suits the Shinners too, as it gives them time to do that coronation thing they were planning and to bed in their new 'leader' - and it avoids the embarrassment of having to listen to Gerry do maths on live radio

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:14AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Personally would've taught blame for this lies with taniste??

At what point did we stop expecting political accountability from the politians elected to the dail....mustve missed that memo

But do agree sf are in no position to fight an election....none of parties are

It just doesn't compute to say that SF wanted an election here. They are in the middle of changing their leader.
FG risk all this rebounding on them and shipping the blame in the public eye.
It will be interesting to see the polls because I don't think Frances persuaded anybody but the most hardened FGer that she did the right thing. Charlie Flanagan taking the flack during the campaign could massively expose fault lines within FG too.

A right mess.

_Kaiser_ · 24-11-2017 09:14AM

buried wrote: »

Yeah, IMO a good section of people think that any Doctor is some sort of infallible Rockstar

Leo is summed up by his Twitter handle - @campaignforleo (guess leovardakartd wasn't snappy enough)

It's all about his own personal profile. He used his sexuality to boost his profile during the SSM referendum, that and his "young", "hip" image got him the top job, and since then he's done..... what? Updated us all on his sock drawer? :rolleyes:

Here I thought FG couldn't do worse than Enda.

McMurphy · 24-11-2017 09:17AM

Edward M wrote: »

Its odd to compare it that way! The situation is totally different.

Why is it odd?

Leo never had the numbers of TDs needed to get within an asses roar of being able to claim he had a mandate. (No gay puns intended)

With two no confidence motions tabled against Frances based on her either being corrupt and/or incompetent- he was offered an opportunity to either jettison Frances by sacking her, or to save face by asking her to jettison herself by resigning 'to enable govt to continue/Brexit/good of the nation' or whatever fancy sound bites and scutter they could come up with.

She has no record of note in any of her ministerial positions, I don't see what she has had to offer as Tainaste to date, and she would be set for the rest of her life in pensions and plum boards for the rest of her days anyway.

But Leo has seemingly opted for an election.

I don't see it as odd at all.

When the two big players are prepared to collapse a government, in order to protect a rotten police force, imagine the dirt we don't know about.

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 09:19AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Personally would've taught blame for this lies with taniste??

At what point did we stop expecting political accountability from the politians elected to the dail....mustve missed that memo

(What they've attempted to smear McCabe with is about as bad as it gets.....literally same thing could happen to any member of the country who has audacity to stand up now and try expose corruption/wrong doing....and this is sf fault...wtf?)

But do agree sf are in no position to fight an election....none of parties are

We've never done accountability in this country - if we did we'd be a lot better for it.

The blame for the mess lies with Fitzgerald, Flannagan and the DoJ......but the blame for any election will be laid full square at the door of the Shinners.

Personally, I think a more nuanced approach would have been better. The Shinners should have left her where she was then played a long game with her as a very convenient target. You never know what else is going to come out of the DoJ, plus it would have given them time to get their new leader in harness and moved the denouement to Spring, a more election friendly season.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:20AM

Jawgap wrote: »

yeah, it's pretty clear this is now an FF-FG matter. SF have rendered themselves irrelevant yet again.....as I said, the noisy kids in the garden.

I reckon this plays out over the weekend (that's why FF put the n/c motion off until next week) when they all troop off to their constituencies and hear how no one wants an election.

Then Fitzgerald resigns, "nobly" putting national interests and the interests of the party (and probably a few other things, including an honourable mention for the 8th) ahead of her own interests......probably some guff about looking forward to being vindicated......then off she'll go, do her time in purgatory to return after the next election (probably 2019 when the C&S agreement expires and FF decline to renew).

I'd imagine that suits the Shinners too, as it gives them time to do that coronation thing they were planning and to bed in their new 'leader' - and it avoids the embarrassment of having to listen to Gerry do maths on live radio

Oh the bitterness.

SF and those who kept the FFFG power swap axis honest will pick up gains IMO.
We'll see a few more FGer's close to tears about the 'injustice' of being called to account no doubt. But the tears will really be about the ever decreasing share of the vote of FFFG.

_Kaiser_ · 24-11-2017 09:21AM

Let's not forget of course that while all the posturing goes on...

The acting Garda Commissioner has told the Policing Authority that he has decided not to pursue widespread disciplinary action across the garda organisation over the falsification of breath tests.

Dónall Ó Cualáin said he was aware that this may not meet people's expectations but such a course of action was not feasible.

That's grand so! Nothing to worry about.

McMurphy · 24-11-2017 09:23AM

Jawgap wrote: »

We've never done accountability in this country - if we did we'd be a lot better for it.

The blame for the mess lies with Fitzgerald, Flannagan and the DoJ......but the blame for any election will be laid full square at the door of the Shinners.

Personally, I think a more nuanced approach would have been better. The Shinners should have left her where she was then played a long game with her as a very convenient target. You never know what else is going to come out of the DoJ, plus it would have given them time to get their new leader in harness and moved the denouement to Spring, a more election friendly season.

That's some mental gymnastics if ever I saw them.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 09:24AM

Water John wrote: »

Was it Belgium or The Netherlands went 14 months without a Govn't. Don't have such an inferiority complex about our country. Just look at the UK

We are all on the one sheet here with regards Brexit.

Yes, spot on. Using Brexit as an excuse to ignore the McCabe fiasco is ridiculous.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:25AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Let's not forget of course that while all the posturing goes on...

That's grand so! Nothing to worry about.

Imagine that as campaign fodder.

It's all SF's fault though.

The electorate will rightly tell Leo to take a hike if he tries that angle in my opinion.
And in my opinion SF will tread water and maybe only pick up some small gains in an immediate election.

tomwaterford · 24-11-2017 09:27AM

Jawgap wrote: »

We've never done accountability in this country - if we did we'd be a lot better for it.

The blame for the mess lies with Fitzgerald, Flannagan and the DoJ......but the blame for any election will be laid full square at the door of the Shinners.

The blame for election lies at taiseachs feet...he could have her gone by 9am..if he wanted (possible suspend her?)

No mind the more serious questions,regarding how far they are prepared to destroy people's name/reputation

As bad as ff are for destroying the country through corruption....there's no indication they would go out of their way to destroy anyone serving the state (and McCabe has done the state some service here).....

fg will do same to anyone in the future who tries expose corruption/wrong doing....whats to stop them doing it to yous,if you went out and had info of corruption and spoke out publically??

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:32AM

Simon Coveney trying to spin the 'reckless' angle on Morning Ireland and coming badly unstuck.
It plainly came across as 'a plea to ignore wrongdoing' in government.

Nettle Soup · 24-11-2017 09:33AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Let's not forget of course that while all the posturing goes on...

The acting Garda Commissioner has told the Policing Authority that he has decided not to pursue widespread disciplinary action across the garda organisation over the falsification of breath tests.

Dónall Ó Cualáin said he was aware that this may not meet people's expectations but such a course of action was not feasible.

That's grand so! Nothing to worry about.

I know, it's just a mess. The Justice department and the Gardai are beyond reform or rebuke.

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 09:35AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh the bitterness.

SF and those who kept the FFFG power swap axis honest will pick up gains IMO.
We'll see a few more FGer's close to tears about the 'injustice' of being called to account no doubt. But the tears will really be about the ever decreasing share of the vote of FFFG.

I'm not bitter at all. it's called pragmatism.

A party with more experience of legislative and government politics would have realised the value of leaving a lame-duck in place, and the importance of timing. Hence FF's stroll towards their no confidence motion.

Rushing in like a sugar fueled toddler with no impulse control betrays a certain lack of maturity on the part of the shinners.

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 09:39AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Imagine that as campaign fodder.

It's all SF's fault though. The electorate will rightly tell Leo to take a hike if he tries that angle in my opinion.
And in my opinion SF will tread water and maybe only pick up some small gains in an immediate election.

he won't need to.

Do you actually think this matters to the electorate?

Doubtless the shinners will try to make it matter, but a bit like Labour they fail to realise that when it comes to voting, "it's the economy, stupid." The first whiff of the shinner tax plan will all but guarantee the continuation of the FF-FG hegemony. But it'll be fun to watch the shinners trying to make it relevant.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:41AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm not bitter at all. it's called pragmatism.

A party with more experience of legislative and government politics would have realised the value of leaving a lame-duck in place, and the importance of timing. Hence FF's stroll towards their no confidence motion.

Rushing in like a sugar fueled toddler with no impulse control betrays a certain lack of maturity on the part of the shinners.

:D
As if FG and FF wouldn't have done the same. How many 'no confidence' motions have been tabled in this state do you reckon, over a lot less wrongdoing and incompetence.

By the way, it is clear from Coveney, they are blaming FF for being reckless, you must have missed the memo.

Have a look at the Examiner front page this morning, that is what the electorate will see here. Massive governmental collusion to take one man down.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:46AM

Jawgap wrote: »

he won't need to.

Do you actually think this matters to the electorate?

Doubtless the shinners will try to make it matter, but a bit like Labour they fail to realise that when it comes to voting, "it's the economy, stupid." The first whiff of the shinner tax plan will all but guarantee the continuation of the FF-FG hegemony. But it'll be fun to watch the shinners trying to make it relevant.

I agree with you. Nothing much will change.
Leo will probably take his turn on the sidelines as the shortest serving Taoiseach ever.
FG's bungling and arrogance has totally rehabilitated FF, well done - well done FG.

Jawgap · 24-11-2017 09:50AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D
As if FG and FF wouldn't have done the same. How many 'no confidence' motions have been tabled in this state do you reckon, over a lot less wrongdoing and incompetence.

By the way, it is clear from Coveney, they are blaming FF for being reckless, you must have missed the memo.
Have a look at the Examiner front page this morning, that is what the electorate will see here. Massive governmental collusion to take one man down.

[sigh]......yes, and what do you think is happening right now?

....the reporters for the weekend and Sunday papers and the political TV & radio programmes are lining up their interviews. The longer form interviews and the time people have to read/listen to them are what's important, that's why FF bought time to get them a weekend.....I'm guessing you'll have various FF talking heads over the weekend explaining how the recklessness of the shinners required them to step in and deal with matters in a more organised fashion. It also allows more time for pressure to build against an election.

.....and you really think people are going to vote themselves poorer? FG delivered a very modest budget, but the promise was always more jam tomorrow - they can certainly campaign strongly on that.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 09:54AM

Jawgap wrote: »

[sigh]......yes, and what do you think is happening right now?

....the reporters for the weekend and Sunday papers and the political TV & radio programmes are lining up their interviews. The longer form interviews and the time people have to read/listen to them are what's important, that's why FF bought time to get them a weekend.....I'm guessing you'll have various FF talking heads over the weekend explaining how the recklessness of the shinners required them to step in and deal with matters in a more organised fashion. It also allows more time for pressure to build against an election.

.....and you really think people are going to vote themselves poorer? FG delivered a very modest budget, but the promise was always more jam tomorrow - they can certainly campaign strongly on that.

And they will get hammered with the emotive issues. People lying on streets and trolleys at Christmas?
As a master of the meme, you should know the damage that could do.

VinLieger · 24-11-2017 10:02AM

Theres been a lot of talk of Ogle launching his political party soon, wondering what this might do to his ambitions. My guess was he was gonna base it all around an apollo house anniversary which this will completely ruin as launching and then immediately running for an election with no time to get your name out there will kill the party at the first hurdle, what he needs is several months if not a year of pushing the name into peoples faces before he can realistically think to contest an election.

Rumpy Pumpy · 24-11-2017 10:23AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Theres been a lot of talk of Ogle launching his political party soon, wondering what this might do to his ambitions. My guess was he was gonna base it all around an apollo house anniversary which this will completely ruin as launching and then immediately running for an election with no time to get your name out there will kill the party at the first hurdle, what he needs is several months if not a year of pushing the name into peoples faces before he can realistically think to contest an election.

Exactly what the country needs; another loony left party of malcontents and moaners relying on megaphone diplomacy to get their point across.

Ogle is a beaten docket at this stage. His ship has sailed.

VinLieger · 24-11-2017 10:25AM

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Exactly what the country needs; another loony left party of malcontents and moaners relying on megaphone diplomacy to get their point across.

Ogle is a beaten docket at this stage. His ship has sailed.

TBH as much as i hate the man id love him to come in and fracture alphabet soup loons even more

Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

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