Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

1…146147149151152…335

Comments

  • #4442
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Buer wrote: »
    Leinster weren't particularly expansive under Schmidt. They were extremely accurate and direct with a really low error count but I don't think they were a side that flung the ball wide with any regularity. They scored through strike runners and pulling teams apart before punching through disorganised defences.

    I don't think I'd ever remember Fitzgerald or Nacewa getting outside teams and making big breaks out wide for Leinster.

    Well maybe my memory is hazy but I remember outside breaks being regular and the garryowen not so much.


  • #4443
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    I have to say that I'm a bit concerned about the direction the Irish team are going. We have not learned anything from the last world cup it seems. Our hoofball game plan will be exposed! We're depending on Murray and Sexton too much, what if they have off days? We are too predictable, it can be difficult for teams to deal with it but the top teams will be able to and even teams like Wales will have a plan to defuse us. Don't get me wrong, I think Schmidt is a top class coach and organises the team very well but the tactics are too primitive. We need a more expansive game plan, similar to the one he implemented at Leinster.

    We're doing fine. In the last 13 months we beat the first and second best teams in the world, breaking impressive winning streaks both times. The lesson from the last world cup had nothing to do with tactics. It was that we had serious issues with our strength in depth. And we very much are addressing that. Pretty well so far too. There's still a bit of work to be done but we're definitely moving in the right direction.

    The only team we've faced since the RWC that we haven't beaten has been Wales IIRC. We drew with them in 2016 and lost earlier this year in Cardiff. We have beaten New Zealand, England, Australia, South Africa, France, Scotland and Fiji. We've yet to play Argentina since the RWC. So we've played 9 of the top 10 teams and beaten 8 of them. Hopefully this time next week we'll add Argentina to the list of wins and we have Wales at home in the 6Ns then too.

    As long as our accuracy remains good, which is the biggest focus in camp, we'll remain an incredibly tough team to beat. As for our attacking game, well England were the only side to score more tries than us in the 6Ns this year. We were second highest in tries scored last year too, behind Wales. In 2014 we were highest. 2015 we were third when our kicking game was our go to, but other than that we actually have played with ball in hand a fair bit and have been pretty successful.


  • #4444
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,753 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Well maybe my memory is hazy but I remember outside breaks being regular and the garryowen not so much.
    We scored two tries on Saturday from the wing and the third was on turnover ball. No kicking involved.

    The previous week, we scored from kicks twice, a maul once and an outside break by Jacob Stockdale. There's nothing wrong with using the boot against a team that's weak at fielding high balls.


  • #4445
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Well maybe my memory is hazy but I remember outside breaks being regular and the garryowen not so much.

    We played at a very different level with a very similar squad. So things like the inside ball to a strike runner was more effective at Leinster than it has been at Ireland. But we actually play fairly similar in a lot of ways. There is more kicking, but then Leinster didn't have a scrum half who was as good as Murray in that area.

    Look back to Rob Kearneys try against England in Twickenham in 2014 and you'll see a move almost identical to the break that set up the Healy try against Clermont in 2012. Look at the break for the Ruddock try against SA the week before last and you'll see an almost identical move to the BOD try against Cardiff in the QF in 2012. Look at the number of times we run that loop play with Sexton, something we did a hell of a lot in Leinster.

    We scare teams now because we are a well drilled side who execute with a high degree of accuracy under all kinds of pressure for 80 minutes. And that's what scared teams about Leinster. Accuracy and ruthlessness.


  • #4446
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,022 ✭✭✭✭phog


    It may have been asked/answered already, apologies if it was but was CJ the first "project" player to captain Ireland?


  • Advertisement
  • #4447
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    molloyjh wrote: »
    We're doing fine. In the last 13 months we beat the first and second best teams in the world, breaking impressive winning streaks both times. The lesson from the last world cup had nothing to do with tactics. It was that we had serious issues with our strength in depth. And we very much are addressing that. Pretty well so far too. There's still a bit of work to be done but we're definitely moving in the right direction.

    The only team we've faced since the RWC that we haven't beaten has been Wales IIRC. We drew with them in 2016 and lost earlier this year in Cardiff. We have beaten New Zealand, England, Australia, South Africa, France, Scotland and Fiji. We've yet to play Argentina since the RWC. So we've played 9 of the top 10 teams and beaten 8 of them. Hopefully this time next week we'll add Argentina to the list of wins and we have Wales at home in the 6Ns then too.

    As long as our accuracy remains good, which is the biggest focus in camp, we'll remain an incredibly tough team to beat. As for our attacking game, well England were the only side to score more tries than us in the 6Ns this year. We were second highest in tries scored last year too, behind Wales. In 2014 we were highest. 2015 we were third when our kicking game was our go to, but other than that we actually have played with ball in hand a fair bit and have been pretty successful.

    We've had some great wins under Schmidt, there's no doubting that but we lost to Scotland and Wales in this years 6 Nations. The tactics had a big part to play in the last world cup. Our one dimensional game was exposed badly. By Argentina! Yes we had injuries but that just shows you that depending on players like Sexton for the hoofball game plan can easily go wrong with injury or if he has an off day.
    We scored 9 of our 14 tries in the 6 nations against Italy. A lot of the wins against the top 10 were at home. Some great wins but the world cup won't be played at home (ever). We are difficult to play against but the top teams will expose us in the world cup if we don't change the game plan a bit.


  • #4448
    aloooof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    The tactics had a big part to play in the last world cup. Our one dimensional game was exposed badly. By Argentina! .

    It was our defensive narrowness that cost us against Argentina, not our attacking game plan. And since then, we've had Andy Farrell in place who's generally considered one of the best defense coaches in the world.


  • #4449
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    The tactics had a big part to play in the last world cup. Our one dimensional game was exposed badly. By Argentina! Yes we had injuries but that just shows you that depending on players like Sexton for the hoofball game plan can easily go wrong with injury or if he has an off day.

    We didn't lose that game in attack at all. It was our defensive system which was completely detroyed through injuries. Payne was a massive loss at 13 as was Sexton at 10. We had Jordi Murphy and Chris Henry trying to disrupt their rucks, neither of whom would even make the 30 man squad now. Those factors allowed Argentina to put width on the ball with no pressure and blitz us.

    Our attacking game, kicking etc. was pretty decent that day. The problem was that we ended up chasing the game so much that we couldn't put together any phase play and had to try and go gung ho due to our defensive collapse.


  • #4450
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Buer wrote: »
    We didn't lose that game in attack at all. It was our defensive system which was completely detroyed through injuries. Payne was a massive loss at 13 as was Sexton at 10. We had Jordi Murphy and Chris Henry trying to disrupt their rucks, neither of whom would even make the 30 man squad now. Those factors allowed Argentina to put width on the ball with no pressure and blitz us.
    And indiscipline ;)


  • #4451
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Buer wrote: »
    We didn't lose that game in attack at all. It was our defensive system which was completely detroyed through injuries. Payne was a massive loss at 13 as was Sexton at 10. We had Jordi Murphy and Chris Henry trying to disrupt their rucks, neither of whom would even make the 30 man squad now. Those factors allowed Argentina to put width on the ball with no pressure and blitz us.

    Our attacking game, kicking etc. was pretty decent that day. The problem was that we ended up chasing the game so much that we couldn't put together any phase play and had to try and go gung ho due to our defensive collapse.

    Ah heyour, Jordi started against the All Blacks in Chicago!


  • Advertisement
  • #4452
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    We scored two tries on Saturday from the wing and the third was on turnover ball. No kicking involved.

    The previous week, we scored from kicks twice, a maul once and an outside break by Jacob Stockdale. There's nothing wrong with using the boot against a team that's weak at fielding high balls.

    We will beat the weak teams (that include South Africa at the moment) using any tactics. I'm talking aout the top teams at the world cup.


  • #4453
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    molloyjh wrote: »
    We played at a very different level with a very similar squad. So things like the inside ball to a strike runner was more effective at Leinster than it has been at Ireland. But we actually play fairly similar in a lot of ways. There is more kicking, but then Leinster didn't have a scrum half who was as good as Murray in that area.

    Look back to Rob Kearneys try against England in Twickenham in 2014 and you'll see a move almost identical to the break that set up the Healy try against Clermont in 2012. Look at the break for the Ruddock try against SA the week before last and you'll see an almost identical move to the BOD try against Cardiff in the QF in 2012. Look at the number of times we run that loop play with Sexton, something we did a hell of a lot in Leinster.

    We scare teams now because we are a well drilled side who execute with a high degree of accuracy under all kinds of pressure for 80 minutes. And that's what scared teams about Leinster. Accuracy and ruthlessness.

    Accuracy and ruthlessness yes but with a danger that they could score a try from anywhere. Yes there was set piece moves but it was far more expansive than we see with Ireland.


  • #4454
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Ah heyour, Jordi started against the All Blacks in Chicago!

    In fairness, JM was playing well at the time. Wouldn't have been starting for Ireland but for injury but certainly was a decent replacement. In the RWC, he wasn't quite at the level he reached the following year though (against SA and NZ).

    Hopefully he can get back to that level because he was way off it at the weekend and others have been taking advantage in his absence.


  • #4455
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Accuracy and ruthlessness yes but with a danger that they could score a try from anywhere. Yes there was set piece moves but it was far more expansive than we see with Ireland.

    Of course it looked more expansive. It was a world class backline training together week in week out for 3 seasons


  • #4456
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    aloooof wrote: »
    It was our defensive narrowness that cost us against Argentina, not our attacking game plan. And since then, we've had Andy Farrell in place who's generally considered one of the best defense coaches in the world.

    No, we were exposed by an attacking game plan that we just couldn't live with. Kicking the ball to them continuously was exposed very badly. It was a 20+ point defeat wasn't it?


  • #4457
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Buer wrote: »
    We didn't lose that game in attack at all. It was our defensive system which was completely detroyed through injuries. Payne was a massive loss at 13 as was Sexton at 10. We had Jordi Murphy and Chris Henry trying to disrupt their rucks, neither of whom would even make the 30 man squad now. Those factors allowed Argentina to put width on the ball with no pressure and blitz us.

    Our attacking game, kicking etc. was pretty decent that day. The problem was that we ended up chasing the game so much that we couldn't put together any phase play and had to try and go gung ho due to our defensive collapse.

    We weren't able to attack them! We only had one game plan and it failed, miserably. We're repeating the same mistakes!


  • #4458
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Also the pinnacle of that expansive Leinster side put on a record score in the European final without a single try being scored by a back.

    People will have different definitions of what expansive really means, but if we're talking putting width on the ball Leinster never really did that. Their strike running was simply a lot more effective at that level then it is at international level.


  • #4459
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    No, we were exposed by an attacking game plan that we just couldn't live with. Kicking the ball to them continuously was exposed very badly. It was a 20+ point defeat wasn't it?

    We had lost PoM,SoB, Sexton and Payne. In the first 20 minutes they tore us apart because we couldn't slow their ball down and we were missing our defensive leaders. We didnt kick the ball to them continuously.

    We actually got back to within 3 at one stage and missed a penalty to go level IIRC.


  • #4460
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Of course it looked more expansive. It was a world class backline training together week in week out for 3 seasons

    It didn't look more expansive, it was more expansive!


  • #4461
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    It didn't look more expansive, it was more expansive!

    It wasnt though. If you knew anything about rugby at all you would understand that. Leinster were just ruthless at exposing any weakness with strike moves.


  • Advertisement
  • #4462
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    We had lost PoM,SoB, Sexton and Payne. In the first 20 minutes they tore us apart because we couldn't slow their ball down and we were missing our defensive leaders. We didnt kick the ball to them continuously.

    We actually got back to within 3 at one stage and missed a penalty to go level IIRC.

    We had injuries which affected us of course but we did kick the ball to them and then when we had to chase the game we didn't have enough. Plan b wasn't up to scratch. This was Argentina let's not forget.


  • #4463
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    determinations wrote: »
    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Maybe I'm wrong but I had thought Slade started at 10 for Exeter in the last match I saw. Never mind that.

    It might have happened in Europe tbf, but Steenson has played 80 min at 10 in all but the opening game of the season. He isn't going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately. He would be a great addition to either Ulster or Connacht.
    And a perfect 3rd choice for RWC before retiring. Competing with Keatley for the spot


  • #4464
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/40910.php#.WhLU30mnzqA

    John Ryan back fit.
    Fractured wrist for Carbery.


  • #4465
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    Accuracy and ruthlessness yes but with a danger that they could score a try from anywhere. Yes there was set piece moves but it was far more expansive than we see with Ireland.

    What do you mean by expansive?


  • #4466
    Buer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Padraig121 wrote: »
    It didn't look more expansive, it was more expansive!

    You keep on saying that without actually giving any evidence.

    For context, Nacewa as a thirty-something scored more tries in the two seasons since returning to Leinster than he did in his 3 years at his peak under Schmidt. Luke Fitzgerald needed a map to find the try line. BOD scored 9 tries in 3 years under Schmidt.

    We played highly skilled rugby mixing backs and forwards but that is not necessarily expansive.


  • #4467
    Malcolm Echoing Volt
    Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭ Malcolm Echoing Volt


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    We had lost PoM,SoB, Sexton and Payne. In the first 20 minutes they tore us apart because we couldn't slow their ball down and we were missing our defensive leaders. We didnt kick the ball to them continuously.

    We actually got back to within 3 at one stage and missed a penalty to go level IIRC.

    Yep, it was 20-23 going into the last 15 mins as far as I recall.

    We also didn't have POC.

    Buer wrote: »
    You keep on saying that without actually giving any evidence.

    Nobody is giving any evidence.

    "Leinster were more explansive"
    "No they weren't"
    "Yes they were"


  • #4468
    Granny15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Who says R Kearney will be going on too long?

    Whats wrong with keeping as many options open as possible?

    Kearney had a free ride at the beginning of his pro career due to some effective promoting of him as a player and online bullying to get him through the system faster. The coaches at the time listened to this bile.

    Conway on the other hand had to fight his up with the competition. He left. It is now time for Kearney to understand what it feels like to have to fight for the jersey. Conway is showing he offers more atm so Kearney should be put on sidelines.


  • #4469
    Padraig121
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Padraig121


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    It wasnt though. If you knew anything about rugby at all you would understand that. Leinster were just ruthless at exposing any weakness with strike moves.

    :rolleyes: I could say you know nothing about rugby for realising it was more expansive.


  • #4470
    Thanos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭Thanos


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/40910.php#.WhLU30mnzqA

    John Ryan back fit.
    Fractured wrist for Carbery.

    Any know the time needed to recover from a fractured wrist?


  • Advertisement
  • #4471
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Kearney had a free ride at the beginning of his pro career due to some effective promoting of him as a player and online bullying to get him through the system faster. The coaches at the time listened to this bile.

    Can you actually take a second and read this sentence that you have written. And if it doesn't make you laugh, we might have a severe problem on our hands.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement