Saorview Connect

Tigerandahalf · 16-11-2017 09:31AM

Hyblaeus wrote: »

I have only used it on iOS, not sure about Android

Not on android as far as I know.
Same as tg4 so. They have only just released an iOS version too.

valeoilspill · 16-11-2017 12:03PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Not on android as far as I know.
Same as tg4 so. They have only just released an iOS version too.

rte & 3 player you will find it on google search under rte player apk and 3 player apk i found mine in apkmirror

Maysa07 · 16-11-2017 12:03PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

@Maysa07

Did you look at the Powerpoint apps section of the box? What type of apps are in there?

Some sport content, lifestyle stuff. There will be more added early 2018 and some linear streams.

Maysa07 · 16-11-2017 12:10PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

So can anyone who has trialled it answer whether the RTE Player/Catchup system is overloaded with ads like the normal RTE Player, for example having to watch 4 pretty much identical ad breaks while trying to skip through a 1 hour show?

I'm afraid so. There is a couple of short adds. I'll double check later. There will also be a new player early 2018.

Maysa07 · 16-11-2017 12:13PM

Tony wrote: »

I've received nothing to say that NDA is no longer in effect.

No, But the 60 day agreement ( unless informed to extend ) has ended. you should of got an email thanking you for taking part.

Tony · 16-11-2017 12:51PM

Thanks , I think there are two NDA's in that case as ours is not 60 day, its until release.

Maysa07 wrote: »

No, But the 60 day agreement ( unless informed to extend ) has ended. you should of got an email thanking you for taking part.

dublinman1990 · 16-11-2017 01:50PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

Some sport content, lifestyle stuff. There will be more added early 2018 and some linear streams.

Could you name the sports & lifestyle content on it if you can? Also how many apps are there on this box?

Tigerandahalf · 16-11-2017 09:30PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

It is a big question. If 2 or 3 button clicks are required to switch it will be a pain in the ass.

Freesat obviously don't want the sat side near their metaphor software which in fairness was only procured for the saorview side of things.

If the rte player becomes chromecast enabled people might start to wonder whether there is a need for a Connect box especially with no Netflix either.

Saorview are going to have to offer some exclusive content on this Connect box or it may struggle for sales.

With no tv3 rollback on the box either it is another negative as soap fans would have liked to have the rollback option.

Ok I set this up tonight.
Easy to set up.
My first issue is that it is poor for switching between satellite and saorview and vice versa.

When in saorview you have to press the red Home button. Then you scroll down 3 or 4 times and click on satellite. A screen logo for saorview comes up then one with a 'satellite' caption. This then takes you to the satellite channels listing common bbc itv channel 4 channels.

This takes about 10 secs to switch to satellite...about 5 secs to switch to saorview as less buttons to click.

This is a killer for me as I want to be able to quickly switch between them. My old Triax Tsc114 is much better.

This will kill the combi box dead in the water as I had feared.

Tigerandahalf · 16-11-2017 09:36PM

Apps on the box include deezer, the weather channel, classic cartoons from years gone by, music, hertube, viaway tv films, skuff tv, TG, Arrival TV, myjam music videos and lots of other filler stuff.

Tg4 player is not yet available, only rte player.
The rollback simply lists the previous programmes on rte1 or rte2. Eastenders was at 8pm. At 9pm it was not yet available.

To my surprise the Spotlight is a nice feature. It lists the most popular rollback shows.

Tigerandahalf · 16-11-2017 09:44PM

Just watching a show on rollback now. Rte player icon loads for couple of seconds and then adds start.

3 adds at the start. Great thing is you can see how many minutes of adds are left.

I've the box connected via wifi. About 50mb connection. Modem on opposite wall of sitting room to the tv. So all good so far there.

The Cush · 16-11-2017 09:44PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

When in saorview you have to press the red Home button. Then you scroll down 3 or 4 times and click on satellite. A screen logo for saorview comes up then one with a 'satellite' caption. This then takes you to the satellite channels listing in common bbc itv channel 4 channels.

This takes about 10 secs to switch to satellite...about 5 secs to switch to saorview as less buttons to click.

This is a killer for me as I want to be able to quickly switch between them. My old Triax Tsc114 is much better.

This will kill the combi box dead in the water as I had feared.

That's crazy, I thought they had designed a new remote control for this box and yet they fail to include a single satellite/Saorview button to easily switch between the 2 services. This follows the failure to have a single channel list like the current range of Walker/Nordmende TVs. They obviously haven't a clue as to what the customer wants.

dubrov · 16-11-2017 09:47PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ok I set this up tonight.

This takes about 10 secs to switch to satellite...about 5 secs to switch to saorview as less buttons to click.

It is unbelievable that it took this long to release this box with such a glaring design flaw. I just can't work out what would attract someone to this.

Tigerandahalf · 16-11-2017 09:57PM

dubrov wrote: »

It is unbelievable that it took this long to release this box with such a glaring design flaw. I just can't work out what would attract someone to this.

I think the lack of advertising by rte says a lot.
The provision of a satellite function was clearly an after thought.

As I was saying previously if the rte player becomes chromecast enabled for android/ios this box may not appeal to a lot of people.

For free to air television in Ireland it is a step back.

I had high hopes for this if it had provided quick switching and hdmi input control. It gives neither despite the remote being able to control the tv volume/power.

People will go back to sky tv or the techy people will opt for enigma boxes.

The Cush · 16-11-2017 10:09PM

I wonder how much money RTÉ have wasted on developing this box?

The Cush · 16-11-2017 10:18PM

@Tony
Are you retailing this box yet, I don't see it on your website?

Also, I see FreeTV aren't carrying any stock - http://www.freetv.ie/saorview-connect/

George Sunsnow · 16-11-2017 10:30PM

The Cush wrote: »

I wonder how much money RTÉ have wasted on developing this box?

Licence is due to go up to 175 ,that should cover it...

George Sunsnow · 16-11-2017 10:36PM

The Cush wrote: »

That's crazy, I thought they had designed a new remote control for this box and yet they fail to include a single satellite/Saorview button to easily switch between the 2 services. This follows the failure to have a single channel list like the current range of Walker/Nordmende TVs. They obviously haven't a clue as to what the customer wants.

Or they think this will deter people from watching the uk channels...
Laughable really

valeoilspill · 16-11-2017 11:46PM

why when you go torte player on live tv section i can only have the option of watch now on 1or 2 of the 4 live tv channle options, cant watch rte 1 or 2 only rte news... baffling me

Tony · 17-11-2017 06:45AM

Not yet no

The Cush wrote: »

@Tony
Are you retailing this box yet, I don't see it on your website?

Also, I see FreeTV aren't carrying any stock - http://www.freetv.ie/saorview-connect/

Gerry Wicklow · 17-11-2017 09:16AM

The Cush wrote: »

I wonder how much money RTÉ have wasted on developing this box?

How much of OUR money :mad:

Former Former · 17-11-2017 09:52AM

The Cush wrote: »

I wonder how much money RTÉ have wasted on developing this box?

Not enough, and that's the problem.

There's a complete disconnect between commercial reality and this thread, I'm afraid.

Every single piece of functionality has to be paid for. Even if it is standard tech that's already in use on a myriad of other boxes, it still costs money to get it into the Saorview box. Getting Freesat's lovely (proprietary) UI would not have come cheap.

So you spend the money on designing your box. That is a fixed cost that must be incurred if you sell 1,000 boxes or 1,000,000 boxes. Unfortunately, Saorview is going to sell numbers much closer to the former than the latter, so the cost per unit is much, much higher.

But then you reach a tipping point beyond which further development costs will mean the box cannot be sold at any sort of an attractive price point. 200 euro is already dangerously close to that level, anything higher and it's curtains.

And then when you get to actual production, your manufacturing site will say "right, how many boxes do you want?". If you say, I want 10,000, they'll quote you a high cost per unit. If you sell more boxes, the average cost per unit starts to fall rapidly, so you can sell mass market boxes much more cheaply. Again, Saorview are paying a high cost per box because there's no economy of scale.

So comparisons with Freeview boxes or generic yokes on Amazon aren't really fair. They don't take account of any of the problems that Saorview has and that RTE/Saorview cannot do anything about. When you can sell 10 times the number of boxes, you can get a lot more bang for a lot less buck.

The same logic applies to the RTE player and other apps. Designing an app is essentially the same regardless of number of end users - but the return on that investment is not. Again, RTE are firmly in the basement end of returns, so they have to be in the basement end of functionality (and content).

So every penny is a trade-off between having a better box and making it viable for people to buy.

Finally, halfway through the design of this box, half the channels on Saorview changed hands into the ownership of a company whose main business is pay TV. So any chance of co-operation, co-funding or access to content went out the window.

These are the realities of the situation. The guys in Saorview aren't idiots, they will know that the absence of a recording function is a big gap, they'll know that a lot of people will say "hang on, you mean I can't get Coronation St on catch-up?".

The question is, what can they do about it? Not much. This box was already loooong behind schedule, they had to get it out for Christmas. At some point, you have to draw a line and say, "right, we go with what we have".

You boys will all come back now and eat the head off me, saying, "it's 2017, how much could it possibly cost to have a recording function/Netflix app/whatever?". The answer is, "too much".

If you all want a fully-functional TV experience, you can cobble a free version together or you can pay for one via Sky or Virgin. You are never going to get it FTA in Ireland.

Johnboy1951 · 17-11-2017 10:42AM

Former Former wrote: »

Not enough, and that's the problem.

There's a complete disconnect between commercial reality and this thread, I'm afraid.

Every single piece of functionality has to be paid for. Even if it is standard tech that's already in use on a myriad of other boxes, it still costs money to get it into the Saorview box. Getting Freesat's lovely (proprietary) UI would not have come cheap.

So you spend the money on designing your box. That is a fixed cost that must be incurred if you sell 1,000 boxes or 1,000,000 boxes. Unfortunately, Saorview is going to sell numbers much closer to the former than the latter, so the cost per unit is much, much higher.

But then you reach a tipping point beyond which further development costs will mean the box cannot be sold at any sort of an attractive price point. 200 euro is already dangerously close to that level, anything higher and it's curtains.

And then when you get to actual production, your manufacturing site will say "right, how many boxes do you want?". If you say, I want 10,000, they'll quote you a high cost per unit. If you sell more boxes, the average cost per unit starts to fall rapidly, so you can sell mass market boxes much more cheaply. Again, Saorview are paying a high cost per box because there's no economy of scale.

So comparisons with Freeview boxes or generic yokes on Amazon aren't really fair. They don't take account of any of the problems that Saorview has and that RTE/Saorview cannot do anything about. When you can sell 10 times the number of boxes, you can get a lot more bang for a lot less buck.

The same logic applies to the RTE player and other apps. Designing an app is essentially the same regardless of number of end users - but the return on that investment is not. Again, RTE are firmly in the basement end of returns, so they have to be in the basement end of functionality (and content).

So every penny is a trade-off between having a better box and making it viable for people to buy.

Finally, halfway through the design of this box, half the channels on Saorview changed hands into the ownership of a company whose main business is pay TV. So any chance of co-operation, co-funding or access to content went out the window.

These are the realities of the situation. The guys in Saorview aren't idiots, they will know that the absence of a recording function is a big gap, they'll know that a lot of people will say "hang on, you mean I can't get Coronation St on catch-up?".

The question is, what can they do about it? Not much. This box was already loooong behind schedule, they had to get it out for Christmas. At some point, you have to draw a line and say, "right, we go with what we have".

You boys will all come back now and eat the head off me, saying, "it's 2017, how much could it possibly cost to have a recording function/Netflix app/whatever?". The answer is, "too much".

If you all want a fully-functional TV experience, you can cobble a free version together or you can pay for one via Sky or Virgin. You are never going to get it FTA in Ireland.

So, accepting the market for a Saorview combi box is tiny, to produce a box for such a market at a competitive price should mean using what is already available ...... cheaply or even free ....... and adapting that to the requirements.
What would be the result of using a re-branded existing box (already in high production numbers) and software that is freely available, and spending the money on re-branding and added functionality such as catch-up etc.?

IMO the result would be a fully functional box at much less cost ... to the point of it being competitively priced. It would also mean an easy upgrade path for the future.

This STB does not, of itself, have to 'make money' for RTE (not commercial in that sense), but should be viewed as a promotional tool for RTE and its services.

The result is the functions of the box are being compared to cheaper boxes with free software, and it is sadly lacking.
It deserves all the negative responses it is getting ..... and more.

Sam Russell · 17-11-2017 11:59AM

What are 2RN or Saorview doing in the STB market at all?

Is RTE commercially involved in this project, and if so, how much is their involvement? If they expect to only sell the STB in small numbers, why do they not put the risk on the manufacturer by giving them free access to the required software and promise extensive promotion?

Why are they so involved in making the RTEplayer so bound up with forcing viewers to watch repetitive adverts before they see 1 second of the programme? It has rendered the player to be unwatchable in my opinion, and I have not attempted to use it for quite some time as it is a thoroughly unpleasant experience. Who makes these decisions?

What is needed to to force Virgin Media to fully support Saorview, if necesary under threat of losing their licences. When Saorview launched, TV3 got a free run on E3 to be on Saorview, otherwise all toys are out of the pram. TV3 was allowed to write off €80 million of state money with no come back, and it was then sold to Virgin. When UTV Ireland collapsed, it was sold to Virgin - no questions asked by ComReg or BAI. Now we have Virgin controlling three channels on Saorview, refusing to put any into HD, and refusing to be involved with this Connect project, just as TV3 did with Saorview on launch.

We need the BAI and ComReg to show a few teeth, both to RTE and Virgin.

Gerry Wicklow · 17-11-2017 12:48PM

Just like the banks, construction industry, insurance companies, credit unions etc etc "regulated by..." means sweet FA in this country.

Former Former · 17-11-2017 02:43PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

What are 2RN or Saorview doing in the STB market at all?

Is RTE commercially involved in this project, and if so, how much is their involvement? If they expect to only sell the STB in small numbers, why do they not put the risk on the manufacturer by giving them free access to the required software and promise extensive promotion?

Why are they so involved in making the RTEplayer so bound up with forcing viewers to watch repetitive adverts before they see 1 second of the programme? It has rendered the player to be unwatchable in my opinion, and I have not attempted to use it for quite some time as it is a thoroughly unpleasant experience. Who makes these decisions?

What is needed to to force Virgin Media to fully support Saorview, if necesary under threat of losing their licences. When Saorview launched, TV3 got a free run on E3 to be on Saorview, otherwise all toys are out of the pram. TV3 was allowed to write off €80 million of state money with no come back, and it was then sold to Virgin. When UTV Ireland collapsed, it was sold to Virgin - no questions asked by ComReg or BAI. Now we have Virgin controlling three channels on Saorview, refusing to put any into HD, and refusing to be involved with this Connect project, just as TV3 did with Saorview on launch.

We need the BAI and ComReg to show a few teeth, both to RTE and Virgin.

They're in the STB market because no one else wants to be. They're in the STB market because they have to keep Saorview alive even though it is not and never will be a viable entity. What private manufacturer would be stupid enough to get into it, when every TV coming off the line has Saorview built in?

As for Virgin, they do support Saorview. They provide their content as per their legal obligations.
What you're asking them to do is to give away their premium content for free, and for Comreg to exert powers that it doesn't have.

If Virgin were forced to give away everything via Saorview, or pull their content completely, I'm guessing there is only one decision there.

Schorpio · 17-11-2017 03:22PM

Former Former wrote: »

They're in the STB market because no one else wants to be. They're in the STB market because they have to keep Saorview alive even though it is not and never will be a viable entity. What private manufacturer would be stupid enough to get into it, when every TV coming off the line has Saorview built in?

As for Virgin, they do support Saorview. They provide their content as per their legal obligations.
What you're asking them to do is to give away their premium content for free, and for Comreg to exert powers that it doesn't have.

If Virgin were forced to give away everything via Saorview, or pull their content completely, I'm guessing there is only one decision there.

HD is not, and should not be considered, a premium service. It should be a mandatory standard for our national broadcasting platform.

As far as I'm aware, the Virgin channels are still not available on Saorsat? If that is still the case, they aren't even providing their content on that platform.

I'm acutely aware that it is much easier to criticise the end product on a public forum than it is to arrange and build the thing. But still, this really does seem like a balls-up. Yes, Saorview is built-in to all new TVs. But that doesn't stop the availability of good-quality freeview boxes in the UK. And I know we are a much smaller market, but surely that means less competition.

What I don't understand is, why not just define the standard and let the manufacturers come to you? I mean, sure license the freesat UI - but would someone like Humax (who have existing hardware already capable of receiving Saorview and extensive experience implementing that exact UI) not be interested in getting involved? Yes, it's a smaller market. But if you already have the hardware and software, the capital cost of entry to that market is peanuts?

Tigerandahalf · 17-11-2017 04:36PM

Folks this box is a dead duck.
Switching on the box at the wall it takes a full minute to load up. It also takes nearly a minute to load from standby.

They seem to admit this in the online help where they tell you to change the settings to a standby mode that uses more electricity.

There is no recall button function, not even within the saorview/sat channels themselves.

Has anyone else being using it?

The guys that tested it are very quiet.

_Kaiser_ · 17-11-2017 04:48PM

So I've read most of the last few pages.. correct me if I'm wrong:

- No record facility at launch
- No 7 day EPG/equivalency to Freesat
- The broadband connectivity is NOT to enable streaming of the channels (which would be useful in poor signal areas) but just the RTE Player/catchup features
- It's ridiculously expensive for what is pretty much the same boxes you can get - just with catch-up

Am I missing anything? If not what on earth was the point of this??

lsjmhar · 17-11-2017 06:04PM

Best thing to do is wait for this to be integrated into a tv with record and rollback functions.

Former Former · 17-11-2017 06:27PM

Schorpio wrote: »

HD is not, and should not be considered, a premium service. It should be a mandatory standard for our national broadcasting platform.

As far as I'm aware, the Virgin channels are still not available on Saorsat? If that is still the case, they aren't even providing their content on that platform.

I'm acutely aware that it is much easier to criticise the end product on a public forum than it is to arrange and build the thing. But still, this really does seem like a balls-up. Yes, Saorview is built-in to all new TVs. But that doesn't stop the availability of good-quality freeview boxes in the UK. And I know we are a much smaller market, but surely that means less competition.

What I don't understand is, why not just define the standard and let the manufacturers come to you? I mean, sure license the freesat UI - but would someone like Humax (who have existing hardware already capable of receiving Saorview and extensive experience implementing that exact UI) not be interested in getting involved? Yes, it's a smaller market. But if you already have the hardware and software, the capital cost of entry to that market is peanuts?

... and the return is peanuts as well. That's what it all comes down to. You can only "let the manufacturers come to you" if there's an incentive for them to do so and there simply isn't one.

As for Virgin, well, it doesn't really relate to Connect, but they're complying with their obligations so the regulator has no role here.

Saorview Connect

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