Would you contribute €2 per week to solve homelessness?

Mooooo · 16-11-2017 05:00PM

Pointless question when it won't fix the problem

Dravokivich · 16-11-2017 05:05PM

djPSB wrote: »

Some interesting points raised.

The poll tells that 60% of respondents would not be willing to pay €2 per week. A small sample size obviously.

An indication of the public view on homelessness all the same.

What are you getting at? The poll says nothing about the comments in the thread.

corner of hells · 16-11-2017 05:09PM

Tsipras wrote: »

grahambo wrote: »

In terms of mental illness, yes that is a factor too, but it is heavily exasperated by alcohol and substance abuse.

That's a load of bollocks, mental health problems lead people to drugs not the other way around, and it is a major cause of homelessness. In the US over 10% of homeless people are military vets, nearly all with PTSD .
Having mental Illness isn't someone's fault.

Drug induced psychosis?

djPSB · 16-11-2017 05:16PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

What are you getting at? The poll says nothing about the comments in the thread.

The poll says 60% wouldn't contribute €2 per week to solve the issue.

There is a media driven public outcry about the homeless situation at the minute. But it's interesting to see how close an issue it is to people's hearts when they are asked to pay €2 per week to solve it.

Btw I wouldn't pay it myself.

Agreed the government's approach to the issue is abysmal but you do wonder if putting families up in hotels is going beyond the call of duty also.

Dravokivich · 16-11-2017 05:38PM

djPSB wrote: »

The poll says 60% wouldn't contribute €2 per week to solve the issue.

There is a media driven public outcry about the homeless situation at the minute. But it's interesting to see how close an issue it is to people's hearts when they are asked to pay €2 per week to solve it.

Btw I wouldn't pay it myself.

Agreed the government's approach to the issue is abysmal but you do wonder if putting families up in hotels is going beyond the call of duty also.

But everyone is saying 2 euro a week won't do it. People should not commit to something because it sounds like the right thing to do, when we know it's not going to acheve anything.

Roger_007 · 16-11-2017 06:10PM

Maybe if the money being given to the homeless charities was given directly to the homeless, it might solve the problem. The Fr McVerry Trust, Focus and Dublin Simon are employing about 1000 full-time staff between them on an average wage of 38k per annum, (mostly public grant money). There are approximately 70 other charities involved with the homeless.
I have no idea what they are all doing but I predict that the next stage of the crisis will be that there will not be enough homeless people to be divided up amongst the charities. We will have to import homeless people to make up the numbers.
No wonder the Apollo house crowd scarpered. They realised the 'market' was too crowded. Homeless charities are now one of the biggest businesses in Dublin.

kona · 16-11-2017 06:16PM

haha i would in my ****, while charity ceo make x2 what im on.

_Kaiser_ · 16-11-2017 06:36PM

Yes.. through taxation, and so long as the money was ACTUALLY being used to address the problem (and not just going into the free-for-all general tax pot, or "ring-fenced - but not really!")

Permabear · 16-11-2017 06:45PM

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MilesMorales1 · 16-11-2017 06:55PM

So does this hypothetical 2 quid a week just buy homeless people a house, or does it significantly improve the facilities and resources available to save homeless people from their own self destruction?

corner of hells · 16-11-2017 06:56PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

These four charities received €33.6 million in grants from the state, but spent €35.8 million on staff costs.

Not one penny of that money granted by the state went directly to the homeless. All of it and more went into the pockets of charity staff.

The charities spend this money mostly on expanding and enriching themselves.

It's clear that actually eradicating homelessness would put an end to a lot of cushy jobs. So the charities have an interest in bleating loudly about the need for ever greater funding, but also an interest in perpetuating the problem rather than solving it.[/quote]

I wonder how'd you eradicate homelessness.

MilesMorales1 · 16-11-2017 07:00PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I was sort of aware of this, but seeing the numbers is ****ing shocking.

Galwayguy35 · 16-11-2017 07:08PM

No.

The government already takes enough of my taxes to help "the most vunerable in our society" who contribute nothing to the running of the country.

Permabear · 16-11-2017 07:18PM

This post has been deleted.

gozunda · 16-11-2017 07:59PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Actually, not they aren't.

Pre-birth maternal nutrition, exposure to alcohol and other drugs, limited blood-oxygen due to maternal smoking, and plain genetics (for some mental illnesses, at least the risk of the disease is inherited) all mean that by the time they reach birth, some babies are all ready wayyy behind others in terms of advantages.

There are two very different types of homeless people in Ireland.

The traditional group have mental health issues. Some actually have diagnosable mental illnesses, while others are psychological difficulties or extreme low intelligence. Whatever the cause, these folks cannot function in regular society without huge amounts of support - and some not at all. No amount of money will remove this group totally, all your €2 will do for them is provide more services to keep them out of the public eye.

The second group, currently larger, is people who cannot find homes due to the country not having build enough of them in places where they are needed, at prices which are affordable. This we could fix, not overnight or next week or even next month. I would happily ring-fence €2 of my taxes for additional housing - though I'd be happier if this wasn't social housing, because of the inter-generational dependency that causes.

What bolloxology is that. People are generally not at fault for mental health issues than they are for any other illness. As to the second comment- I am seriously concerned as to where that one could go ...

djPSB · 16-11-2017 11:09PM

You would wonder though, and obviously this again will never happen, but supposing we are all paying the €2 per week and then homelessness was solved in that very few were homeless anymore. Would people then not say, well fook them 'why should we have to pay €2 per week to put a roof over someone else's head'.

corner of hells · 16-11-2017 11:15PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't think it's possible to eradicate homelessness. Even in societies that the left drools over because of the size of the state sector, homelessness is an issue. In Sweden, at last count, there were 34,000 people homeless. In Denmark, there were 10,000 to 15,000 homeless.[/quote]

It isn't and unfortunately in Ireland the state relies heavily on charities to support homeless services, I'd imagine because it would cost more to employ social care staff, counsellors, drug service staff and so on through the HSE.
The origin of a lot of services like MQI, Capuchins etc was voluntary but when they have to employ professionals you got pay to them.
A few posts back a figure of 38000 was mentioned as a salary , I'm a front line homeless service worker and don't earn that.
Maybe it's an average.

It's good to have dialogue and accountability but having an awareness of what charities particularly front line ones are is important too.
I'll give an example ,MQI provides needle exchanges as part of their primary health care team alongside mental health /general nurse and doctors as well as dentists simply because no one else would originally.

Arghus · 16-11-2017 11:30PM

Great to see so many people didn't read the OP's post. About a hypothetical solution that would be guaranteed to work. He was just posing a hypothetical question, but sure let the half-baked rants continue.

corner of hells · 16-11-2017 11:32PM

Arghus wrote: »

Great to see so many people didn't read the OP's post. About a hypothetical solution that would be guaranteed to work. He was just posing a hypothetical question, but sure let the half-baked rants continue.

'
Sure that's nearly every AH thread.

Prune Tracy · 16-11-2017 11:54PM

grahambo wrote: »

I keep hearing about "The Homeless" problem

In my eyes the only people that can help the homeless are themselves.

There are 3 kinds of homeless people
1: Young women in their 20's with kids and the father "isn't around"
2: People with serious drink/drug problems
3: People who have genuinely lost everything througha series of bad events <= These are the vast minority

There is no helping 1 and 2, and they are the vast majority.

I saw on RTE news earlier in the week some woman living in a hotel for the last few years with 4 kids, the youngest of which was only a couple of months old, finally got a house off the council.

WTF was she doing having another kid when she already had 3 and was living in the hotel?
Her eldest child (7 or 8 years old maybe) had to be put up in a separate room because for insurance reasons the hotel can't have more than 4 people in a room.

No sign of the Dad (Dad's)

I know a Homeless guy in Raheny, He lives in St Annes park. His family don't want anything to do with him as he a terrible alcoholic.
He needs to sort himself out before anything can be done to sort him out with accommodation.

There is a reason as to why people are homeless, and generally the reason is because they have serious antisocial/substance abuse/addiction issues.
No amount of money will be able to help them.
There's no helping someone that won't help themselves.

I know the above is harsh, but it's very true.

I agree with a lot there but there is also the group now that simply cannot afford private rent in Dublin. And I dislike when people say "well move so!" It's the capital city - with the most job opportunities. It shouldn't be at the stage in the first place where people have no option but to move away from it to some depressing village in Laois.

gozunda · 17-11-2017 12:01AM

Arghus wrote: »

Great to see so many people didn't read the OP's post. About a hypothetical solution that would be guaranteed to work. He was just posing a hypothetical question, but sure let the half-baked rants continue.

I asked the OP to define what they meant by the term "homelessness" a while back. Thread went feral for lack of clarity imo.

lightspeed · 17-11-2017 12:14AM

As others have pointed out we are already paying for them through general taxation.

What irks me is the fact that the so called "emergency accommodation" is a hotel in many cases.

The term "emergency accommodation" conjures up the image of a tent in Haiti or like post Hurricane Catriona.

For the money the government is paying on hotels in Dublin they could just buy up the houses elsewhere in the country further outside Dublin, throw them the keys and say **** off or sleep on the street.

Of course in this new age of political correctness, if people want to live in Dublin or Cork etc and cant afford to its an epidemic.

Can anyone tell me would it be the same if you went to the capital city in other developed parts of the world?

If I went to London and said I cant afford a place to live in London, would the British government put me up in a hotel until they found me a home in London?

New York, Barcelona, Rome, Paris ect. Would that happen in any of these cities?

lmimmfn · 17-11-2017 12:23AM

lightspeed wrote: »

As others have pointed out we are already paying for them through general taxation.

What irks me is the fact that the so called "emergency accommodation" is a hotel in many cases.

The term "emergency accommodation" conjures up the image of a tent in Haiti or like post Hurricane Catriona.

For the money the government is paying on hotels in Dublin they could just buy up the houses elsewhere in the country further outside Dublin, throw them the keys and say **** off or sleep on the street.

Of course in this new age of political correctness, if people want to live in Dublin or Cork etc and cant afford to its an epidemic.

Can anyone tell me would it be the same if you went to the capital city in other developed parts of the world?

If I went to London and said I cant afford a place to live in London, would the British government put me up in a hotel until they found me a home in London?

New York, Barcelona, Rome, Paris ect. Would that happen in any of these cities?

But don't they deserve free houses in Dublin instead of in the country?

Tigger · 17-11-2017 12:27AM

its acuallybthe opposite
if you move all the wont work dubs to the country then you loose our vote
whichbis stupid cos those people have loads of money to spend and would add to our local evonomy
iv been canvasing for poeple to move tonthe lovley empty estates in leitrim
and sligo for years

lightspeed · 17-11-2017 12:29AM

Prune Tracy wrote: »

I agree with a lot there but there is also the group now that simply cannot afford private rent in Dublin. And I dislike when people say "well move so!" It's the capital city - with the most job opportunities. It shouldn't be at the stage in the first place where people have no option but to move away from it to some depressing village in Laois.

Yes it should be as thats a natural process as an economy grows. If more people are forced to moved out further from Dublin, there will then be demand for services in these areas. That will create more jobs in these areas and then less need for so many people to scramble towards city centre.

Christ we are in the EU where like it or not, there will continue to be plenty of people from Eastern Europe as well as elsewhere coming here looking for work. Consider that along with the reality that people are living longer and our high birth rates, there is not a hope that this is a problem that can be solved ever by supply.

Demand is going to continue to massively exceed supply in Dublin just like it does in London.

I read an article this morning about how Ireland is hoping to gain as much as 15,000 new financial services jobs to Dublin as a result of Brexit. That may be optimistic on the jobs front, but anyone who thinks they shouldnt have to move outside of Dublin if they cant afford a house at present is delusional if they think its going to get better.

Its like saying I shouldnt have to get wet even though its raining.

CPTM · 17-11-2017 12:31AM

When you have 100 people and only 60 houses, the richest 60 people will always get the houses, and the rest will be homeless.. It doesn't matter how much money you give the 40, be it 2 euro, or 200 euro.. The homeless people will just turn up at one of the viewings of the 60 houses, along with everyone else, and the landlords will just raise the prices up until the top 60 people have been identified again. Until we build enough places for everyone to live in, subsidies do nothing but increase income for landlords, or increase corruption and back-handers (If there are ceiling rent prices and/or rent control).

myshirt · 17-11-2017 12:35AM

Of course everyone would give 2 euro if it was as simple as that. Of course, it's not.

Ask a harder question.

Like would people support CAT thresholds dropping, CAT rates rising, PPR relief going, and that money being ringfenced to tackle socioeconomic disadvantage. Remember it's been working the other way for a long, long time. Direct government intervention to benefit one class. This is all unearned wealth perpetuating inequality.

lightspeed · 17-11-2017 12:43AM

lmimmfn wrote: »

But don't they deserve free houses in Dublin instead of in the country?

Im genuinely not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

No they dont. I dont actually think they should be given houses for free either. Im just making the point why to we live and die by the Dunnes stores motto of "the difference is were Irish". We all understand that people who cant afford to live in say London for example have to accept that they must move further away and commute.

The idea of Irish people having to do the same in Ireland is a subject of outrage for some reason. Maybe its because we have not had to adjust this new reality and the easily lending during the boom helped people live in this warm fuzzy bubble.

Prune Tracy · 17-11-2017 12:44AM

lightspeed wrote: »

Im genuinely not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.

No they dont. I dont actually think they should be given houses for free either. Im just making the point why to we live and die by the Dunnes stores motto of "the difference is were Irish". We all understand that people who cant afford to live in say London for example have to accept that they must move further away and commute.

The idea of Irish people having to do the same in Ireland is a subject of outrage for some reason. Maybe its because we have not had to adjust this new reality and the easily lending during the boom helped people live in this warm fuzzy bubble.

I've read numerous pieces on people in London and San Francisco objecting to the cost of accommodation/property. Things that get the "typical Irish" treatment are often to be found anywhere.

I've no doubt that that person was just being ironic and I agree that a person who opts for being entirely provided for by the state (not people who end up in that situation through misfortune and no fault of their own, but people who actually choose it) and insists that they be put up for free in a hotel until the right place in one specific area comes up/turns down local authority accommodation because of a ridiculous reason have a sense of entitlement gone crazy, but when it's so expensive that people in secure, well paying employment literally cannot afford to pay for accommodation, it's too extreme.

Roger_007 · 17-11-2017 01:05AM

Is this essentially a Dublin problem? I don't live in Dublin but I live within 30km of it. There are 12 perfectly decent houses for sale in the €150k-200k range within 5km of where I live, (I checked on Daft). By any measure, these houses are in the affordable range.
Why does everyone want to live in Dublin? That's what's causing most of the problem.

Would you contribute €2 per week to solve homelessness?

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