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Would you contribute €2 per week to solve homelessness?

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    #212
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RayM wrote: »
    Yes. Otherwise everybody would want to do it.

    They have a choice. Nothing to do with good or bad fortune. People like you enable people like them.


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    #213
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    end of the road wrote: »
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    I hate to puddle in your cornflakes but your opinion is just that- not a statement of fact.


    it's a statement of fact. if people in countries with no benefits at all have large families, then that suggests that removing child benefit either for all children, or over a certain number of children, is unlikely to work in reaching your desired outcome.
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Society should help those who can't help themselves.

    Those who take the p*** should be cast adrift.

    not financially viable.
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Exactly, people unwilling to help themselves or contribute to society are no loss to society.

    no but the extra tax money i will have to pay for your nonsense will be a huge loss to me.

    And the extra tax we CURRENTLY pay for yours irks me somewhat.


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    #214
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    And the extra tax we CURRENTLY pay for yours irks me somewhat.


    not as much as what you would be paying if you got your way.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #215
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    And the extra tax we CURRENTLY pay for yours irks me somewhat.

    I’d love to know what countries with no benefits have large families. I’m willing to guess it’d be the ones with the lowest education standards. Not first world countries.


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    #216
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    They have a choice. Nothing to do with good or bad fortune. People like you enable people like them.

    I'd rather be an "enabler" than someone who advocates the "weakest" being pecked off, one by one.


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    #217
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RayM wrote: »
    I'd rather be an "enabler" than someone who advocates the "weakest" being pecked off, one by one.

    If they weren’t mollycoddled they might get off their arses and contribute to society.


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    #218
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If they weren’t mollycoddled they might get off their arses and contribute to society.


    they wouldn't no . they are unemployable and uneducatible and therefore cannot contribute.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #219
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    end of the road wrote: »
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If they weren’t mollycoddled they might get off their arses and contribute to society.


    they wouldn't no . they are unemployable and uneducatible and therefore cannot contribute.

    Let's assume you're right, why do we let them breed????


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    #220
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If they weren’t mollycoddled they might get off their arses and contribute to society.

    I prefer the idea of using a carrot (i.e. education), rather than a great big stick (i.e. the threat of destitution). I've never understood some people's urge to punch downwards and be unkind all the time. It seems like they're never happy unless they're dehumanising someone. Don't forget - even after you've killed the homeless, the unemployed and the addicts, you'll probably have to replace them with some other unfortunate group in order to cope with whatever darkness made you like this. :)


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    #221
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RayM wrote: »
    I prefer the idea of using a carrot (i.e. education), rather than a great big stick (i.e. the threat of destitution). I've never understood some people's urge to punch downwards and be unkind all the time. It seems like they're never happy unless they're dehumanising someone. Don't forget - even after you've killed the homeless, the unemployed and the addicts, you'll probably have to replace them with some other unfortunate group in order to cope with whatever darkness made you like this. :)

    Education is free in this country. Most of them would have the opportunity to get at least a secondary education, the level I was educated to. Just because they were wasters as kids we shouldn’t have to pay for them to be wasters as adults. If there was no safety net they may not have been wasters as kids.


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    #222
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If they weren’t mollycoddled they might get off their arses and contribute to society.

    If believing this crap that helps you sleep at night then so be it. Convenient.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #223
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    If believing this crap that helps you sleep at night then so be it. Convenient.

    I sleep very soundly. Well, until my alarm goes off and I have to go to work to pay taxes to support these bums.


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    #224
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    If believing this crap that helps you sleep at night then so be it. Convenient.

    I sleep very soundly. Well, until my alarm goes off and I have to go to work to pay taxes to support these bums.

    Easier than doing some research and learning about the problem, I suppose, but hardly helping society. Oh well, gnight

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #225
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Education is free in this country. Most of them would have the opportunity to get at least a secondary education, the level I was educated to. Just because they were wasters as kids we shouldn’t have to pay for them to be wasters as adults. If there was no safety net they may not have been wasters as kids.

    They're not "wasters" - they're people, just like you, except less fortunate.


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    #226
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RayM wrote: »
    Is our ability to empathise with, and help, those less fortunate than ourselves not one of those things that separates us (well, most of us) from the animals?

    So you're calling nationalities who don't have a welfare state or any serious initiative to help the weaker parts of their society... "animals"? That's a pretty hefty part of the world population.


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    #227
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    If there was no safety net they may not have been wasters as kids.

    wrong, they would have been even more less fortunate then with the safety net. sorry but your nonsense has been disproven. no amount of wishful thinking and ranting will change the realities.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #228
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So you're calling nationalities who don't have a welfare state or any serious initiative to help the weaker parts of their society... "animals"? That's a pretty hefty part of the world population.

    No, I'm saying that people generally empathise with, and seek to help, other people. I find it amazing that anyone could draw such an idiotic conclusion from what I posted, tbh.


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    #229
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Education is free in this country. Most of them would have the opportunity to get at least a secondary education, the level I was educated to. Just because they were wasters as kids we shouldn’t have to pay for them to be wasters as adults. If there was no safety net they may not have been wasters as kids.

    To be fair, there are plenty of extra costs to education like books, materials, etc. Also, it's kinda difficult to study if you haven't eaten well, or have some mental/emotional disability.

    TBH I'm kinda disappointed that there hasn't been more effective research into how to help the weaker parts of our society rather than simply researching in the attempt to understand or categorize them for demographics. Sure, there are initiatives that look at their mental health, but there doesn't seem to be many real endeavors to truly rehabilitate these people.Too many initiatives relating to the poor or the homeless seem more about supporting the weaker parts of our society than actually seeking a resolution.


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    #230
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RayM wrote: »
    No, I'm saying that people generally empathise with, and seek to help, other people.

    Then that's what you should have written.
    I find it amazing that anyone could draw such an idiotic conclusion from what I posted, tbh.

    Ahh, you weren't being a sanctimonious git then.


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    #231
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Some people are engineering their own issues in a public way. Haven't seen many stories about sleeping in a car recently have you?

    That was knocked on the head big time.

    So now we have people usually mothers with multiple children in hotel rooms. Well Councillor Jimmy Guerin was on Liveline the other day (before he was silenced for telling the other side of the story) and mentioned the scams that are going on WRT hotels. I am sure you can all figure it out. Stay in an hotel, jump up the list. Dad nowhere to be seen, imminent births. I am heartily sick of it now.

    The genuine housing needs of many are not being met because a cohort are spuriously jumping the queue.

    Anyway I think the word homeless should be replaced with SHELTERLESS, just to ease the bandwagon going on now.

    I know there is a problem, but honestly at this stage if I hear the H word anymore I will scream, well I usually just turn off the TV/Radio.

    Too many vested interests also.

    I could go on all night. But will halt there for the moment, you will be very glad to hear I am sure!


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    #232
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    We need to separate those who need help for whatever reason and have no other option from those who are capable of working and contribute but choose not to.

    The first group should be helped.

    The second should not be


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    #233
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Then that's what you should have written.



    Ahh, you weren't being a sanctimonious git then.

    A simple "sorry, I clearly misinterpreted your post" would have sufficed, tbh.


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    #234
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RayM wrote: »
    A simple "sorry, I clearly misinterpreted your post" would have sufficed, tbh.

    Calling me an idiot didn't help... or did I misinterpret you there too?


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    #235
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Calling me an idiot didn't help... or did I misinterpret you there too?

    I'm afraid you did. I called your conclusion idiotic. That's not the same as calling you an idiot. We're all capable of doing idiotic things. I mean, I clicked on this thread...


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    #236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RayM wrote: »
    I'm afraid you did. I called your conclusion idiotic. That's not the same as calling you an idiot. We're all capable of doing idiotic things. I mean, I clicked on this thread...

    :D

    ok. Let's just ignore this and move on. <shake>


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    #237
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RayM wrote: »
    They're not "wasters" - they're people, just like you, except less fortunate.

    How is someone with the exact same opportunities as me “less fortunate”??


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    #238
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    How is someone with the exact same opportunities as me “less fortunate”??


    because they are. the world isn't black and white. people aren't all the same. it would be great in some ways if they were, but they aren't.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #239
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    RayM wrote: »
    They're not "wasters" - they're people, just like you, except less fortunate.

    How is someone with the exact same opportunities as me “less fortunate”??
    Every single one of them had the exact same opportinities as you?! Another convenient belief....

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #240
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    RayM wrote: »
    They're not "wasters" - they're people, just like you, except less fortunate.

    How is someone with the exact same opportunities as me “less fortunate”??

    They're not.

    I'd say more fortunate in that they don't have to put in any effort yet have a lifestyle equivalent or better to those who work; they never have to worry about paying for healthcare whereas we have to find 50 quid to see a doctor. Plus if we don't pay our fair market rent we're out on our ears - they fail to pay their pathetic rent which is meant to be paid for from the money we give them - and when they fail to do so there's a Facebook campaign to keep them there or a sad faced kid posed for the Indo.


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    #241
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Of course.

    The proviso being that the money is spent on what is necessary.

    Then again, I'd pay extra taxes if I thought for 1 second it would improve the health services (amongst a whole host of other things). It probably wouldn't matter without improved governance.

    There is also an element of truth in the statement that some homeless people have to help themselves first


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