The poor farmer hypocrisy

mfceiling · 13-11-2017 09:40PM

Same in construction lads. Fellas buying big new transporter vans and all they have in the back is their sandwiches.

Lad years ago used to laugh at me in my 5 year old van while he drove a brand new navara. The following year I met him on a job and I asked him about parking on site...."I'm not sure mate, I get a lift". Turns out he couldn't afford the finance and the running of it. He was getting a lift on the back of a moped!! My little van was grand on the cold wet mornings with the heater on!!

Icelandicseige · 13-11-2017 09:53PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Same in construction lads. Fellas buying big new transporter vans and all they have in the back is their sandwiches.

Lad years ago used to laugh at me in my 5 year old van while he drove a brand new navara. The following year I met him on a job and I asked him about parking on site...."I'm not sure mate, I get a lift". Turns out he couldn't afford the finance and the running of it. He was getting a lift on the back of a moped!! My little van was grand on the cold wet mornings with the heater on!!

Ah jaysus talk about kicking a fella when he is down.

Cavanjack · 13-11-2017 10:14PM

Few lads near me with new j deers. Wouldn't think they've 100 acres each. I'd say the heat rarely goes on in their houses. More lads with new jeeps and trailers to bring 20 cattle to the mart every year. Let them at it, it takes all sorts and sure where would we get the second hand gear without them.
This is why we are still getting the sfp. It's for spending on machinery and concrete.

Muckit · 13-11-2017 10:19PM

.... and somebody has to supply that concrete and new machinery. So in a way they're keeping people in jobs and have to be admired. What good are the lads doin for anyone that keep it under their mattress? Nobody gets any good out of it. Made round to go round, spend it up to hell before our time runs out!!

Grueller · 13-11-2017 10:24PM

Muckit wrote: »

.... and somebody has to supply that concrete and new machinery. So in a way they're keeping people in jobs and have to be admired. What good are the lads doin for anyone that keep it under their mattress? Nobody gets any good out of it. Made round to go round, spend it up to hell before our time runs out!!

That's a fair point. A bachelor farmer near here left a farm to a nephew. He also left him with north of €100k in cash. He had never spent a penny on sheds, fencing, reseeding or the dwelling house. All of the money plus another €60k went into making it a viable enterprise. A small few Bob spent little and often and it would have taken feck all to get it right.

patsy_mccabe · 13-11-2017 10:32PM

An American goes into an Irish restaurant and is surprised to see the lobsters swimming around in a tank with no lid. "Might they not escape?" he asks the waiter. "Don't worry sir, he was told, "they're Irish lobsters and if one looks like climbing out the others pull him back into the tank."

J.O. Farmer · 13-11-2017 10:50PM

Muckit wrote: »

.... and somebody has to supply that concrete and new machinery. So in a way they're keeping people in jobs and have to be admired. What good are the lads doin for anyone that keep it under their mattress? Nobody gets any good out of it. Made round to go round, spend it up to hell before our time runs out!!

Something like this anecdote about banking.
https://youtu.be/sqdFRg17ql8

Dickie10 · 13-11-2017 11:19PM

not sure really what i am making or if i am doing well, i dont want to buy a new tractor even though a lot of people are onto me. i have a 1987 2 wheel drive case 585 and 96 jcb teleporter for feeding and other jobs, teleporter is a god send.

bought a jeep 1997 land cruiser for €1600 in the last few weeks, only because my old 01 passat died from hauling. i did howver splash out on a brand new ifor williams with decks last year. i was bring over 200 lambs a year to factory with the car and a bulderes flat trailer with railings for over 15 years but it was a two man job to load lambs, so i had to give that up. i need any job to be a one man thing because my father is now 82, so not having him out pulling and dragging, mush as he would love to!!

im bring around 300+ lambs along with cull ewes now to factory/ mart so it was a bit of a push for a car. thats about all my machinery spend. i get contractor for everything and do pit silage maybe 30 bales max.

on the profit side i dont really know how im doing, i would like some advice but perhaps wouldnt like to put it up here. to be honest would the best way of knowing how profitable you are be by looking at whats in the account all year round? like i belive cash flow must be the lifeblood of any business? am i wrong? is it more complicated?

Willfarman · 13-11-2017 11:37PM

If you have a roof over your head. Warm dry snug. Clean water.You ate well today. You are in the small percentage of the worlds population. The saying that your health is your wealth is the truth.

lakill Farm · 13-11-2017 11:54PM

Surely look at your farm accounts over a 5 year period

Dickie10 wrote: »

not sure really what i am making or if i am doing well, i dont want to buy a new tractor even though a lot of people are onto me. i have a 1987 2 wheel drive case 585 and 96 jcb teleporter for feeding and other jobs, teleporter is a god send.

bought a jeep 1997 land cruiser for €1600 in the last few weeks, only because my old 01 passat died from hauling. i did howver splash out on a brand new ifor williams with decks last year. i was bring over 200 lambs a year to factory with the car and a bulderes flat trailer with railings for over 15 years but it was a two man job to load lambs, so i had to give that up. i need any job to be a one man thing because my father is now 82, so not having him out pulling and dragging, mush as he would love to!!

im bring around 300+ lambs along with cull ewes now to factory/ mart so it was a bit of a push for a car. thats about all my machinery spend. i get contractor for everything and do pit silage maybe 30 bales max.

on the profit side i dont really know how im doing, i would like some advice but perhaps wouldnt like to put it up here. to be honest would the best way of knowing how profitable you are be by looking at whats in the account all year round? like i belive cash flow must be the lifeblood of any business? am i wrong? is it more complicated?

Bass Reeves · 14-11-2017 12:23AM

Dickie10 wrote: »

not sure really what i am making or if i am doing well, i dont want to buy a new tractor even though a lot of people are onto me. i have a 1987 2 wheel drive case 585 and 96 jcb teleporter for feeding and other jobs, teleporter is a god send.

bought a jeep 1997 land cruiser for €1600 in the last few weeks, only because my old 01 passat died from hauling. i did howver splash out on a brand new ifor williams with decks last year. i was bring over 200 lambs a year to factory with the car and a bulderes flat trailer with railings for over 15 years but it was a two man job to load lambs, so i had to give that up. i need any job to be a one man thing because my father is now 82, so not having him out pulling and dragging, mush as he would love to!!

im bring around 300+ lambs along with cull ewes now to factory/ mart so it was a bit of a push for a car. thats about all my machinery spend. i get contractor for everything and do pit silage maybe 30 bales max.

on the profit side i dont really know how im doing, i would like some advice but perhaps wouldnt like to put it up here. to be honest would the best way of knowing how profitable you are be by looking at whats in the account all year round? like i belive cash flow must be the lifeblood of any business? am i wrong? is it more complicated?

I hope you are doing accounts.

Some lads have the poor mouth all the time. It the same in any job or business, there are lads that will poor mouth it, lads that will say nothing and lads that will tell you the truth. Look at house renting there are loads of lads mouthing about the problems that they have, the bad tenants non payers etc.

A lot is about the way a business is run. Some farmers are hap hazzard in there business just like some landlords, shop owners, publicans etc. But a lot of farming especially drystock and tillage is a low margin business. But if you understand that and do not add cost into the business it is profitable.

Some do not understand that you do not need a a new 100Hp tractor and loader as well as a Jeep and 14' trailer to run a 50-60 acre drystock farm. You do not need bells and whistles in sheds and the simpler the set up the better. It is easy to feed 3-400 bales with a goodish 2WD tractor. it is easy to get a haulier to bring cattle home from the mart or to the factor. I do see the need if selling in the mart to have maybe an 8X5 box to bring one or two home if the worst happens. But DD also exists to buy and sell.

mikefoxo · 16-11-2017 08:32PM

Brother was working down in west Cork last year for a bit. Lot of dairy lads all playing 'keeping up with the Joneses'. In a way it was good, they were all trying to be super efficent (reseeding, lime, profit monitor etc.), but they were also going around in brand new machines. Except for one lad. He had a two wheel drive tractor, a fertiliser spreader and not much else and he was making the most out of the lot of them

Muckit · 16-11-2017 08:54PM

What l can't get over is if any other business invests in new buildings and machinery they are great. But no if a farmer does the same to help them be more efficient it is frowned upon.

If l was farming fulltime I'd be wanting a fairly new machine and good buildings and work environment from a safety and efficiency point of view. Abd I'd be expecting my business to be making the returns to fund it aswell as paying me a realistic wage.

Markcheese · 16-11-2017 09:42PM

Muckit wrote:

If l was farming fulltime I'd be wanting a fairly new machine and good buildings and work environment from a safety and efficiency point of view. Abd I'd be expecting my business to be making the returns to fund it aswell as paying me a realistic wage.

Expecting it, and getting it are 2 different things.. But safety and a bit of comfort are reasonable expectations...

Dunedin · 16-11-2017 10:30PM

Muckit wrote: »

What l can't get over is if any other business invests in new buildings and machinery they are great. But no if a farmer does the same to help them be more efficient it is frowned upon.

If l was farming fulltime I'd be wanting a fairly new machine and good buildings and work environment from a safety and efficiency point of view. Abd I'd be expecting my business to be making the returns to fund it aswell as paying me a realistic wage.

The best comment on here in a while. And as a part timer it’s nearly more important as you need reliable machines to go when you come home in the evening as well decent sheds to make foddering handy in the dark evenings

Dickie10 · 16-11-2017 10:37PM

yea doing accounts just not sure what the net profit on average is nationally and where i may fit as a beef and sheep farmer. i would like to know where i am so i would be able to make sense of those farm surveys that come out yearly.

Dickie10 · 16-11-2017 10:40PM

i mean i know my own farm income this year. i suppose i want to knoww where i sit. i am right in saying that the farm income they talk about in surveys is gross profit (all money in, inc. grants) -minus your expenses, these i include as fertiiser, feeds, contractors, car running costs,esb, phones, vets, sundries , machinery upkeep, diesel etc.

MickeyShtyles · 16-11-2017 11:04PM

Muckit wrote: »

What l can't get over is if any other business invests in new buildings and machinery they are great. But no if a farmer does the same to help them be more efficient it is frowned upon.

If l was farming fulltime I'd be wanting a fairly new machine and good buildings and work environment from a safety and efficiency point of view. Abd I'd be expecting my business to be making the returns to fund it aswell as paying me a realistic wage.

The difference in the two MuckIt is that when ya hear on the news that ‘400 jobs have been created in Louth’ the public goes fair play to them.
But then they see the farmers on the news protesting (again) over poor prices and the like.
And then they see all the brand new tractors and machinery that these ‘poor farmers’ have.
It’s purely a massive generalization by the public!

Hard Knocks · 16-11-2017 11:39PM

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

The difference in the two MuckIt is that when ya hear on the news that ‘400 jobs have been created in Louth’ the public goes fair play to them.
But then they see the farmers on the news protesting (again) over poor prices and the like.
And then they see all the brand new tractors and machinery that these ‘poor farmers’ have.
It’s purely a massive generalization by the public!

Yes why when protesting are the finest of modern tractors on display instead MF35’s, Ford 4000’s ...

Stopitwillya · 17-11-2017 02:16AM

Farming is only part time for me now. Have had to get another job in order to supplement my income.

Muckit · 17-11-2017 12:10PM

How did you find that transition? It's a big step and lifestyle change. Are u happier now?

Bass Reeves · 17-11-2017 01:00PM

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Farming is only part time for me now. Have had to get another job in order to supplement my income.

Muckit wrote: »

How did you find that transition? It's a big step and lifestyle change. Are u happier now?

That is a given

Bass Reeves · 17-11-2017 01:12PM

Muckit wrote: »

What l can't get over is if any other business invests in new buildings and machinery they are great. But no if a farmer does the same to help them be more efficient it is frowned upon.

If l was farming fulltime I'd be wanting a fairly new machine and good buildings and work environment from a safety and efficiency point of view. Abd I'd be expecting my business to be making the returns to fund it aswell as paying me a realistic wage.

The thing is that these may not be mutally exclusive. As well the lad in mikefoxo case may be more sharp that you think. He has contracted out silage and slurry because of this he is able to concentrate on stock and milking. He may well have the best of fencing and sheds but is not a machinery addict.

Lads complain about life work balance but hate to pay for anything they percieve they can do themselves. When it is costed at the end of the day it is often a a no sum balance.

orchard farm · 17-11-2017 03:56PM

In relation to net profit,id say 200/acre is a good benchmark to work too

farawaygrass · 17-11-2017 05:17PM

orchard farm wrote: »

In relation to net profit,id say 200/acre is a good benchmark to work too

Excluding grants? I’d bight your hand off for that!!

orchard farm · 17-11-2017 06:00PM

farawaygrass wrote: »

Excluding grants? I’d bight your hand off for that!!

Not likely that would be all in inc grants,think its near 0 to minus without the brown envelope

Floki · 17-11-2017 06:17PM

orchard farm wrote: »

Not likely that would be all in inc grants,think its near 0 to minus without the brown envelope

And yet there's farmers mad enough to take out land and it's getting dearer every year. Madness.

Dickie10 · 17-11-2017 06:43PM

ok good news for me so. thats a straightforward way of calculating. im 260/acre net profit for 2016 , although that is including payments. but definitly room to get finishing an extra 15 cattle and maybe 50 lambs. thats my immediate goal. i would like to be going with a load of cattle to factory say 10 or 12 for june,july,august and sept.

Dickie10 · 17-11-2017 06:44PM

without grants its back to 132/acre net profit. big differnce. im going to paddock more fields next year and get soil sampling done that should help

patsy_mccabe · 17-11-2017 09:21PM

I'm convinced if you want to make money at suckling in Ireland, more or less just copy what the Dairy boys are doing. Small quiet, easy calving milky cows that make the most from cheap grass.

The poor farmer hypocrisy

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