The poor farmer hypocrisy

Floki

Panch18 wrote: »

You know farming is doomed when you have a fair few on here choosing/defending/sympathising with the supermarkets

We really are approaching the end game in Irish farming

It's doomed when they think all meat, milk, chicken is the same.
We'll be eatin sh1te in no time at all if that's the thinking.
Ffs where's the pride gone from producing good food.
It can't be all pounds and pence and sh1te food.

Jesus wept.

whelan2

Floki wrote: »

I have relations in the retail business (they make more of a margin on a litre of milk than the farmer but that's another story) but three different vans deliver milk to this shop.
One from strathroy. One from Glanbia and one from a local farmer.

There's lots of misinformation floating around here.

Another one for the floor.
What's the difference taste wise in milk between silage fed cows, grass fed cows and brassica fed cows?

Avonmore milk van delivers avonmore milk and a cheaper version to local shop. Strathroy delivers their own

mauser77

Just out of interest how much is it to get a heifer killed cut and bagged these days.

Bass Reeves

mauser77 wrote: »

Just out of interest how much is it to get a heifer killed cut and bagged these days.

Last time I did it about 3-4 years ago it cost 220 euro. I had a lad that took half the heifer. Lads are all at college or away not so not really viable. You really need the lad doing it to hang the heifer for 3-4 weeks minimum. Butcher holds the offal and the hide and disposes of the SRM

selectamatic

I'm amazed people are still posting in this thread with such gusto. If anything it appears to be taking a more negative turn.

OP swans onto the forum with a bullsh1t story and is now clearly gone in the wind and yet regular posters on here are still arguing from polar opposites and throwing out sound bites as if they're good old fashioned solutions.

The truth as it always does lies firmly in the middle. You don't need the finest grass fed rare breed steak on a regular basis (they're a grand treat though) and likewise you shouldn't want to regularily eat a breaded chicken breast that originated in Thailand and is produced/packaged in Europe somewhere.

What we have at the minute is grand, subsidies in place to keep decent quality home produced meat affordable. There's nothing wrong with certified Angus steaks from Aldi and there's nothing wrong with getting an eye of round in the local butchers for the Sunday roast.

What we really need is a couple of scandals to keep the dirt from South America and south east Asia away.

tomwaterford

Panch18 wrote: »

You know farming is doomed when you have a fair few on here choosing/defending/sympathising with the supermarkets

We really are approaching the end game in Irish farming

It's a dose of realism imo


People are going to by and large buy where they'll get the best value or most convience on their food?


You wouldn't expect a farmer to buy off a small supplier,if they couldn't compete pricewise on goods with larger coops/suppliers?

Floki

What we really need is a couple of scandals to keep the dirt from South America and south east Asia away.

The trouble is with all this talk of blandness and not knowing what you're producing and thinking e.g all beef is the same. Is that more than likely the next food scandal could be here.

If farmers who produce the food in the first place don't make the connection between what they're doing and what goes in their gob then we're all destined for a life of doctors surgeries and hospitals.
I sound like I'm preaching but I don't care it just madens me how farmers, farmers you know who should know better and have a bit of cop on can say that all milk or all beef or all sheep is the same. Maybe they're posting for a rise and well done you got one.
But jfc there's some people could do with a boot up in the ****.

We've never had as many human complaints with health as now with diabetes, depression, adhd, osteoporosis, and people continue to shove any old crap down their mouths. You only have to go to the ploughing match and see the ques for free food samples. They could be serving sh1t on a stick for free and people would knock each other down for it.
What's the saying " the cost of everything the value of nothing".
Anyways rant over.

Continue eating sh1t.

Panch18

tomwaterford wrote: »

It's a dose of realism imo


People are going to by and large buy where they'll get the best value or most convience on their food?


You wouldn't expect a farmer to buy off a small supplier,if they couldn't compete pricewise on goods with larger coops/suppliers?

I suppose Tom there is 2 things that I am seeing

firstly butchers can and do compete with the supermarket counters yet they are still losing business to them - moral of the story is the small guy looses, or can be crushed by the big guy if needs be

Secondly applying the moral of that story to farming - farms in Ireland are like butchers, 1 man small operations. The drive is towards bigger and cheaper, we can't compete because our farms are too small, I see people on here spouting about grass fed beef/milk and we should market it better, yet they are the same ones who won't support their local small grocer or shopkeeper, they expect others to support their "small unique business" yet won't support others. We expect people oversees to pay more for our beef and milk because its "unique" yet we don't apply the same kind of logic to the local small business - its all about price.

Surely that's the definition of hypocrisy

Bullocks

Just a different thought on buying meat and it's affordability, are we eating / buying too much meat ?
An old neighbour beside me reckoned to buy a bit of meat twice or maybe three times a week would be all we need to eat just eat less of a portion and we would be better off moneywise and bellywise .
It wouldn't suit a dog like me but I should be leaning that way !

Base price

I've just got the opportunity to read this thread in full.
TBH I couldn't give a fiddlers if my neighbour drives past in a shiny new tractor or jeep. Best of luck to them with it and it's their business if they can afford to buy it or pay the repayments for it - wtf has it got to do with anyone else. The one thing that pisses me off about living in rural Ireland is the continuous ability of some to make negative comments about their neighbours - Patsy gave an excellent analogy in a previous post.
On the subject of buying from local shops butchers/greengrocers I'm surprised that some previous comments on this thread were allowed to become personal :mad:
I buy meat/veg from our local independent butcher & greengrocer on a biweekly basis. I also shop in Lidl (mostly), Aldi and Super Value on occasion.
In fairness the veg that I buy from the local greengrocer lasts longer/stays fresher (in the pantry) than what I buy from the supermarkets but I have to pay a few cents/kg more than the supermarket price.
That's not a problem with veg but when it comes to meat the price differential is extreme particularly in the higher priced cuts like my preferred sirloin, striploin, ribeye. My local butcher is selling sirloin for €19/kg whereas I can currently buy Bord Bia approved sirloin (25 day aged) in Lidl for €10/kg.
Current factory beef prices are €3.80-3.90/kg and a few cents more for heifers and butcher fit heifers in the mart command a few cents more.
The differential in price for a simple cut like sirloin of €9/kg leads me to purchase my preferred prime cuts from Lidl.

Cavanjack

Feckoffcup wrote: »

Chap said to me there's no money in farming and what he was doing was making no money. A couple of mins later he went on to explain he bought a 200hp New Holland for £54,000 recently. Now this guy doesn't have big machinery to pull... Oh and he hopped back into his 2016 Hilux.
Am I missing something here?

I completed the glas course a couple of weeks ago. It consisted of 50% of the lads there whinging and giving out about the whole thing all day long. Then there was a general chat on cross compliance, same thing, whinging, "why should we have to do this that and the other"
Then farm safety came up. Guess what, more whinging, "we don't have time or money to do it safely"
The whingers were late 50's 60's and I'd imagine most never worked off farm.
Most of them hopped into their land cruisers then and headed home. Never had a day like it You couldn't please them. If an outsider heard what was going on, it was a great example of the stereotypical farmer giving out. Poor way to live Your life.

Dakota Dan

Cavanjack wrote: »

I completed the glas course a couple of weeks ago. It consisted of 50% of the lads there whinging and giving out about the whole thing all day long. Then there was a general chat on cross compliance, same thing, whinging, "why should we have to do this that and the other"
Then farm safety came up. Guess what, more whinging, "we don't have time or money to do it safely"
The whingers were late 50's 60's and I'd imagine most never worked off farm.
Most of them hopped into their land cruisers then and headed home. Never had a day like it You couldn't please them. If an outsider heard what was going on, it was a great example of the stereotypical farmer giving out. Poor way to live Your life.

What would you expect, it's Cavan FFS

tractorporn

Cavanjack wrote:

I completed the glas course a couple of weeks ago. It consisted of 50% of the lads there whinging and giving out about the whole thing all day long. Then there was a general chat on cross compliance, same thing, whinging, "why should we have to do this that and the other" Then farm safety came up. Guess what, more whinging, "we don't have time or money to do it safely" The whingers were late 50's 60's and I'd imagine most never worked off farm. Most of them hopped into their land cruisers then and headed home. Never had a day like it You couldn't please them. If an outsider heard what was going on, it was a great example of the stereotypical farmer giving out. Poor way to live Your life.

The meeting I attended for the sheep welfare scheme was exactly the same. Lads gave out that there was a reference number of ewes because they were going to expand their flocks and wanted payment for every ewe. A few mins later when the girl giving the talk said that you had to keep your reference number of ewes and that if you didn't have them you wouldn't get paid for them the same lads cried blue murder claiming there was no way they could keep the reference number of ewes. You actually couldn't make it up.

tomwaterford

Panch18 wrote: »

I suppose Tom there is 2 things that I am seeing

firstly butchers can and do compete with the supermarket counters yet they are still losing business to them - moral of the story is the small guy looses, or can be crushed by the big guy if needs be

y

This is the same as any business anywhere in the world

Glanbia were giving discounts on ton of meal few weeks ago....how is in dependant merchant to compete??

Lads renting land and blowing each other out of the water in price per acre,how is any lad starting off small to compete with them etc??



You are correct to point out hypocritical of expecting people to pay over odds for irish food....

The only reason milk etc can compete on global scale is because it's competitive on price,imo people vastly over estimate the value placed on goods,simply because their irish/grass fed


People will critise and laugh at vegans for raising all sorts ethical questions on treatment of animals etc....yet immediately 5 mins later bemoan large feed lots/industrial food production

Bass Reeves

tractorporn wrote: »

Cavanjack wrote:

I completed the glas course a couple of weeks ago. It consisted of 50% of the lads there whinging and giving out about the whole thing all day long. Then there was a general chat on cross compliance, same thing, whinging, "why should we have to do this that and the other" Then farm safety came up. Guess what, more whinging, "we don't have time or money to do it safely" The whingers were late 50's 60's and I'd imagine most never worked off farm. Most of them hopped into their land cruisers then and headed home. Never had a day like it You couldn't please them. If an outsider heard what was going on, it was a great example of the stereotypical farmer giving out. Poor way to live Your life.

The meeting I attended for the sheep welfare scheme was exactly the same. Lads gave out that there was a reference number of ewes because they were going to expand their flocks and wanted payment for every ewe. A few mins later when the girl giving the talk said that you had to keep your reference number of ewes and that if you didn't have them you wouldn't get paid for them the same lads cried blue murder claiming there was no way they could keep the reference number of ewes. You actually couldn't make it up.

Most of these are the same lads that hop down to the co-op to get 4-6 bags of nuts every week and buy there fertlizer in 1/2 tonnes and complain there is no money in farming. REPS was a waste of time according to them and now they are in schemes that are nowhere as lucrative as it was. They keep the cattle outside until he farm is as bare as a billard table and end up buying poor quality silage because of the long winter. They were the last to build sheds and usually have not got a fence in the place. Cattle and sheep have the run of the farm

patsy_mccabe

Ah ya, but they're happy out.

boggerman1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Most of these are the same lads that hop down to the co-op to get 4-6 bags of nuts every week and buy there fertlizer in 1/2 tonnes and complain there is no money in farming. REPS was a waste of time according to them and now they are in schemes that are nowhere as lucrative as it was. They keep the cattle outside until he farm is as bare as a billard table and end up buying poor quality silage because of the long winter. They were the last to build sheds and usually have not got a fence in the place. Cattle and sheep have the run of the farm

All true and bang on the money.i wonder is it from yrs of listening to the poor mouth routine from the ifa over the yrs.I'm 38 and attended 2 ifa local meetings when I was in my early 20's.at the 2nd one I said to the guest speaker Philip kinnane and that I would be better off throwing myself off the roof of the church opposite the club house where the meeting took such was the doom and gloom and poor mouth spiel.

Willfarman

I can't stand that kind of negativity. I made a lot of money out of beef cattle this year. It's there for everyone to get off their butt and go and get it., and I made a very tidy sum out of the sheep. And then my sfp just landed in the bank to put jam on my bread.. easy money.

White Clover

In a way one can see how them boys are so disillusioned. 30 years ago when they were starting out, their gross margin was multiples of what it is now.
It's hard to stomach how the wealth that was in rural ireland back then is now in the hands of greedy processors and gouging "co-ops"
I don't think sneering at them is going to improve our lot at present.

Dickie10

all depends on your circumstances, every one has to cut their cloth, i made good enough money this year and of course hope i can improve that next year.

Bass Reeves

White Clover wrote: »

In a way one can see how them boys are so disillusioned. 30 years ago when they were starting out, their gross margin was multiples of what it is now.
It's hard to stomach how the wealth that was in rural ireland back then is now in the hands of greedy processors and gouging "co-ops"
I don't think sneering at them is going to improve our lot at present.

This is not just an Irish phenomena agriculture prices have dropped worldwide.. Production has increased and outstripped demand. However a lot of these guys systems have remained the same and never adapted. They turned there noses up at REPS when it was a good scheme. In general most of us are not sneering at them but rather fed up with there attitude. I had a bellyfull of it a few weeks ago with a lad finishing HE over 400 kgs that should have been hanging since August. More than likely he is getting at present what lads got 350-360 kg cattle in July and August.

White Clover

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This is not just an Irish phenomena agriculture prices have dropped worldwide.. Production has increased and outstripped demand. However a lot of these guys systems have remained the same and never adapted. They turned there noses up at REPS when it was a good scheme. In general most of us are not sneering at them but rather fed up with there attitude. I had a bellyfull of it a few weeks ago with a lad finishing HE over 400 kgs that should have been hanging since August. More than likely he is getting at present what lads got 350-360 kg cattle in July and August.

Can't disagree with any of that. But, The wealth has shifted from the farmers to the processors.
If them lads had plenty of dough today like they had years ago, they'd be all smiles.

Willfarman

Willfarman wrote: »

I can't stand that kind of negativity. I made a lot of money out of beef cattle this year. It's there for everyone to get off their butt and go and get it., and I made a very tidy sum out of the sheep. And then my sfp just landed in the bank to put jam on my bread.. easy money.

I put this up tongue in cheek waiting to be slaughtered!! Which I would be if I said it out loud amongst people. Point being we as a nation are natural begrudges. Modesty and poor mouthing are nessecary social skills to survive among our peers perhaps!

patsy_mccabe

I honestly don't think it's the processors fault. At the end of the day, they have to be competive too and compete with other processors.
It's really down to basic economics. Technology has enabled farmers to produce more and more, with less and less labour. The end result, while bad for farmer incomes, is great for the consumer and everyones standard of living.

Cavanjack

Willfarman wrote: »

I put this up tongue in cheek waiting to be slaughtered!! Which I would be if I said it out loud amongst people. Point being we as a nation are natural begrudges. Modesty and poor mouthing are nessecary social skills to survive among our peers perhaps!

Wouldn't expect anybody to be going round blowing about all they are making but the constant crying of some lads is hard to stomach when many of them could live off their cheques in the post.

Waffletraktor

White Clover wrote: »

Can't disagree with any of that. But, The wealth has shifted from the farmers to the processors.
If them lads had plenty of dough today like they had years ago, they'd be all smiles.

I'd take a bet if an irish poccessor sold beef at 40% cheaper there will still be someone able to make a profit at same price somewhere.
It's a load of poor my shyte from people who lack the ability to see farming in western europe is unviable unless at the high end of output as costs are too high for everything.

Willfarman

There would indeed waffler but there would have to be someone working for nothing at some point.. thankfully we live in a first world country with a first world economy with its protectionisms and to honest that's how I hope it stays!

Waffletraktor

Willfarman wrote: »

There would indeed waffler but there would have to be someone working for nothing at some point.. thankfully we live in a first world country with a first world economy with its protectionisms and to honest that's how I hope it stays!

And your reward for no risk and taking the easy way is a low/no margin enterprise under a governmental regime that gives a payment to maintain control.
What do the vast majority of farmers find so difficult about this, producing in Western Europe is too expensive unless at the very top end of the market.

farawaygrass

Waffletraktor wrote: »

And your reward for no risk and taking the easy way is a low/no margin enterprise under a governmental regime that gives a payment to maintain control.
What do the vast majority of farmers find so difficult about this, producing in Western Europe is too expensive unless at the very top end of the market.

What kind or system do you run? On owned or leased land?
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying btw

Willfarman

Because we have minimum wage labour in a developed economy there is protectionism in every sector of society, . The race to the bottom has a few winners but mostly losers. lRemember almost half of the worlds population haven't a solid roof or running water. And dont they say around 20000 children are dying a day due to poverty?