Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

connachta · 13-11-2017 03:05PM

Buer wrote: »

its_phil wrote: »

Like most posts around here I'd be more interested in who posted that then simply take a quote, and actually watching him week to week.

All from different people, all well established posters on here and I didn't spend long looking.

I wouldn't follow the Connacht thread a huge amount but it's definitely something that stuck in the memory. When I see it posted multiple times, it tends to stick in the mind and contributes to a belief that he's not playing great. Perhaps he's going well but there definitely seems to be a perception amongst a few Connacht fans that he's not hitting the standards of the last few years.

Agree I asked the question because Treadwell was sent back with province.
But I would not be bothered if Dillane isn't picked based on form

Neil3030 · 13-11-2017 03:06PM

Clegg wrote: »

I thought James Ryan performed well on Saturday. Only got 10 minutes but didn't look underpowered against a big South African pack. It's easy to forget that this is his first season as a professional. There's a lot expected of him following on from his school days and his standout U20 performances and he's meeting those expectations. Thrown in at the last minute against Montpellier and was not outmatched by a massive opposition pack, an international cap on his professional debut and it didn't look like it bothered him in the slightest. We've a special player on our hands.

His carry made Stockdale's try. Gonna do my best Murray K impression here - but look where he takes the ball into contact, completely on his own against three SA defenders. You can see behind him the four-man pod set up, and Conway running across to join the line in midfield. Any halt or backwards step here and the SA defense can set around the red line and theensuing move can probably be managed.

But instead Ryan (completely unassisted) wriggles his way up nearly a further five metres and presents the ball cleanly to Marmion. Quick ball and we're off to the races with oncoming runners and plenty of space.

Three Springboks. 5 metres. He's 21.

Former Former · 13-11-2017 03:08PM

connachta wrote: »

Prepare the RWC, prepare the after-Rob era,

Your fundamental problem is your unshakeable belief that these are the same thing.

Buer · 13-11-2017 03:08PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Also...did our sub front row absolutely mince the saffers scrum in the second half leading to a penalty? Or was I slightly drinker than I thought?

Crucified them on a drive which led to kicking to the corner and Herring's try.

I'm not sure how much stock I can put in that though. They had thrown in the towel completely having conceded Ruddock's try a few minutes ago. Every Irish player who came on was made to look like a world beater.

Also, Louw had been on the pitch for 75 minutes at that point and was facing a fresh front row. Modern props can't even count to 75 let alone remain on the pitch for that long without starting to wane.

wp_rathead · 13-11-2017 03:12PM

Small bit risky having only 2 THs in camp?

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2017 03:15PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

Small bit risky having only 2 THs in camp?

I suppose Michael Bent is around the corner if anything bad happens

wp_rathead · 13-11-2017 03:17PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I suppose Michael Bent is around the corner if anything bad happens

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 03:23PM

connachta wrote: »

Play one of them 15. And not against fidji, against big teams. If he doesn't work, bring the 2nd one of the list in (or TOH, that's not my point here). Prepare the RWC, prepare the after-Rob era, NOW. Full blank

That you think this is how the coaches make their selections is where you are getting it so completely wrong. They don't do failure testing. They make judgments based on what they see a player do in their province and at training camp. Their ability to learn and apply those learnings quickly and efficiently.

Do you think Jacob Stockdale or Bundee Aki were just being 'tried out' at the week-end?

stephen_n · 13-11-2017 03:30PM

With the depth we are building now in all positions, there will be some amount of moaning when the RWC squad is announced, there will be a lot of good players left out.

awec · 13-11-2017 03:30PM

In a sad enough way Stockdales performance yesterday has probably closed the door on Bowe and Trimble’s international careers, except in some injury crisis scenario.

Stockdale, Earls, Conway and Sweetnam, with Kearney Jnr in and around the squad too we shouldn’t need to go back to the old lads.

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2017 03:34PM

awec wrote: »

In a sad enough way Stockdales performance yesterday has probably closed the door on Bowe and Trimble’s international careers, except in some injury crisis scenario.

Stockdale, Earls, Conway and Sweetnam, with Kearney Jnr in and around the squad too we shouldn’t need to go back to the old lads.

Yeah, I think so.

I think they'll try to get a group of 3/4 guys at Earls' level. I think Stockdale will be there pretty soon if not already. Then someone like Conway/Sweetnam/Byrne has the chance to get there. And those guys will be the core wingers through 2019.

Interesting question over which side everyone plays. I think Stockdale might end up pushing Earls over to the right wing in our first team.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 03:36PM

awec wrote: »

In a sad enough way Stockdales performance yesterday has probably closed the door on Bowe and Trimble’s international careers, except in some injury crisis scenario.

Stockdale, Earls, Conway and Sweetnam, with Kearney Jnr in and around the squad too we shouldn’t need to go back to the old lads.

And still a couple more on the fringes. But you know those guys will step up if called on. Fantastic servants to the cause and if their international careers are over, at least they have some very high points to remember.

Neil3030 · 13-11-2017 03:42PM

Buer wrote: »

Crucified them on a drive which led to kicking to the corner and Herring's try.

I'm not sure how much stock I can put in that though. They had thrown in the towel completely having conceded Ruddock's try a few minutes ago. Every Irish player who came on was made to look like a world beater.

Also, Louw had been on the pitch for 75 minutes at that point and was facing a fresh front row. Modern props can't even count to 75 let alone remain on the pitch for that long without starting to wane.

I love the ruthlessness though. SA threw in the towel and we grabbed that towel and strangled them with it, right to the final whistle. Sign of a team that know places are not a given.

Yeah_Right · 13-11-2017 03:52PM

mfceiling wrote: »

I remember being at that game and to be honest my one overriding memory was the girl in front of me with the horrendously tight jeans who kept jumping up and down. Shocking stuff altogether.

The big questions, did she have the sort of posterior that was worthy of horrendously tight jeans? If yes, did you get a picture?

And I agree. Shocking behaviour. Distracting you, I mean blocking your view

Former Former · 13-11-2017 03:53PM

awec wrote: »

In a sad enough way Stockdales performance yesterday has probably closed the door on Bowe and Trimble’s international careers, except in some injury crisis scenario.

Stockdale, Earls, Conway and Sweetnam, with Kearney Jnr in and around the squad too we shouldn’t need to go back to the old lads.

It is sad, when you see how some guys get the lap of honour and others who are just as deserving have to just fade into the background.

connachta · 13-11-2017 03:56PM

Former Former wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Prepare the RWC, prepare the after-Rob era,

Your fundamental problem is your unshakeable belief that these are the same thing.

not a problem, a hope... But as I said, as it is not prepared, he may not be, "by default"

stephen_n · 13-11-2017 04:01PM

Former Former wrote: »

It is sad, when you see how some guys get the lap of honour and others who are just as deserving have to just fade into the background.

Particularly for Bowe given what his Swan song will be.

13-11-2017 04:02PM

Former Former wrote: »

It is sad, when you see how some guys get the lap of honour and others who are just as deserving have to just fade into the background.

stephen_n wrote: »

Particularly for Bowe given what his Swan song will be.

Yeah it really sucks to be them.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 04:08PM

connachta wrote: »

not a problem, a hope... But as I said, as it is not prepared, he may not be, "by default"

So you think. So you clearly think Jacob Stockdale, Joey Carbery, James Ryan, Darren Sweetnam or Bundee Aki were not prepared either?

Coaches sit around the table blindfolded and stick pins in a list of names. :rolleyes:

13-11-2017 04:12PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Coaches sit around the table blindfolded and stick pins in a list of names. :rolleyes:

Well no - one of the coaches keeps their eyes open just in case anyone is about to accidentally select a Connacht player...!

CIARAN_BOYLE · 13-11-2017 04:21PM

Former Former wrote: »

Your fundamental problem is your unshakeable belief that these are the same thing.

For me I worry that they are. Not because of any lack of quality on Rob Kearney's part. Rather his rather dodgy injury profile. Remember 2011 when we lost Murphy and Wallace in the warmups.

I would probably not play him in a summer tour or autumn international in an effort to develop plan b.

Our existing plan B is Jared Payne but his injury profile is worsening and I worry about his professional future especially with the silence on a return date from his current injuries. Our plan C is Simon Zebo who is off to France so exit stage left.

That said I agree with him playing Rob Kearney in these autumn internationals to provide leadership and continuity that the new back three players can rely on.

ScrubsfanChris · 13-11-2017 04:31PM

Fiji game is now a sell out according to irfu. Wasn't expecting that and should make for a great atmosphere with a somewhat experimental Irish side out on the pitch.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 04:32PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

For me I worry that they are. Not because of any lack of quality on Rob Kearney's part. Rather his rather dodgy injury profile. Remember 2011 when we lost Murphy and Wallace in the warmups.

I would probably not play him in a summer tour or autumn international in an effort to develop plan b.

Our existing plan B is Jared Payne but his injury profile is worsening and I worry about His professional future. Our plan C is Simon Zebo who is off to France so exit stage left.

That said I agree with him playing Rob Kearney in these autumn internationals to provide leadership and continuity that the new back three players can rely on.

Despite my argument with Connachta, I still believe TOH is part of the picture. He's had plenty of caps, so he's quite familiar with what's required and I honestly believe that KK in Connacht will bring a different approach to Pat Lam which will help O'Halloran hit his marks.

In the meantime there are other options such as Conway and even Stockdale with Kearney there to fill gaps. And that's not even mentioning Carbery who I believe Joe sees primarily as an out half.

Burkie1203 · 13-11-2017 04:35PM

connachta wrote: »

Play one of them 15. And not against fidji, against big teams. If he doesn't work, bring the 2nd one of the list in (or TOH, that's not my point here). Prepare the RWC, prepare the after-Rob era, NOW. Full blank

Payne played all of his caps bar 1 at 13 AFAIK

Players play at provinces and have been picked in a different position by Joe. Just because Kearney is in the team doesn't mean Joe isnt considering other options in training but you can not just try out (as you put it) a load of new guys in one go. It takes time to build. Which is exactly what is happening. But its not happening the way you want it so you have declared it to be wrong.

connachta · 13-11-2017 05:02PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

not a problem, a hope... But as I said, as it is not prepared, he may not be, "by default"

So you think. So you clearly think Jacob Stockdale, Joey Carbery, James Ryan, Darren Sweetnam or Bundee Aki were not prepared either?

Coaches sit around the table blindfolded and stick pins in a list of names. :rolleyes:

All those caps are prepartion for RWC. None of them played 15 for now against big teams. Hope it happens now or February at worse...

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 05:06PM

connachta wrote: »

All those caps are prepartion for RWC. None of them played 15 for now against big teams. Hope it happens now or February at worse...

You are missing the point so much that you're not even in the same province as it. :rolleyes:

Don Kiddick · 13-11-2017 05:11PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

For me I worry that they are. Not because of any lack of quality on Rob Kearney's part. Rather his rather dodgy injury profile. Remember 2011 when we lost Murphy and Wallace in the warmups.

I would probably not play him in a summer tour or autumn international in an effort to develop plan b.

Our existing plan B is Jared Payne but his injury profile is worsening and I worry about his professional future especially with the silence on a return date from his current injuries. Our plan C is Simon Zebo who is off to France so exit stage left.

That said I agree with him playing Rob Kearney in these autumn internationals to provide leadership and continuity that the new back three players can rely on.

Both Horgan and ROG were saying in Saturday that the autumn internationals are grand, but Zebo should be considered come 6n time

LostArt · 13-11-2017 05:16PM

Jordi called up

its_phil · 13-11-2017 05:17PM

Conor Murray very hard done by not to be nominated for World Player of the Year

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 05:20PM

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Both Horgan and ROG were saying in Saturday that the autumn internationals are grand, but Zebo should be considered come 6n time

I listened to that conversation and two crucial points weren't made. The first was that nobody mentioned the fact that it was unlikely that Zebo would get the same kind of release clauses in his contract that Sexton got and that allowed him to attend training camps fully.

The second and following from that is that given he wouldn't be involved fully in training camps, he can't really be considered for the RWC. This seems to be a basic requirement for Joe Schmidt, who won't even consider a player for selection if they've missed just one day in the lead up to a match.

So playing Zebo in any match between now and 2019 is taking game time that is needed for his replacement.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781