Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

connachta · 13-11-2017 12:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

So another indication. He should be at least on the bench...

Maybe. If he isn't though I look forward to your 40 odd posts on the matter. Hopefully someone will get injured in training or cited so he is guaranteed.

Am I doing this right?

yes you are. Happy?

molloyjh · 13-11-2017 12:48PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

TOD went for a scan on a shoulder injury. I haven't seen word yet but I imagine he's out.

Aside from consistency of selection etc., Fiji seemed to give Italy a good game so I wouldn't be quick to send out a full second side.

Well replace TOD with Leavy so.

As for Dillane, that's a tight call. He's the incumbent who is struggling badly for form. Treadwell is playing better at the moment. Treadwell was also in SA until the middle of last week so was never going to be involved with the squad on Saturday. I wouldn't necessarily read anything into Dillanes involvement. Either way I don't really care though tbh.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 12:55PM

connachta wrote: »

You ignore my point too, which is giving gametime to TOH against Japan or Sweetnam/Conway against Fidji. Same if Stockdale is n°15 against Italy/Scotland for 6 nations. It is not enough to prepare plan B (Plan A IMO, but that's subject to controversy), against real RWC opposition (Barrett, Folau...)

I ignored it because it's making a massive assumption that TOH (and now you admit that's who you were talking about) will be the next full back.

That's not set in stone by any means. By his own admission, TOH has work to do to get back into the picture. He has an advantage now that Zebo has excluded himself from selection, but selection to the senior team isn't based on seniority, it's something you earn by doing what's required of you by the international coaches every day for your province first of all and then if you're good enough for the training squad, doing it there.

It might be instructive to read Andrew Conway's interview in The 42. But you need to take your fingers out of your ears and stop saying "La la la la la" to drown out any contrary opinion or facts. :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2017 01:50PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd be surprised if we didn't take the opportunity to get some others game time. Something like the below has a good bit of experience in the pack and some consistency in the back line yet is also getting other guys involved.

I don't think this would necessarily match either what they're saying to the media or what we've seen done in the past. I certainly remember complaints about these matches not being "used properly" in the past.

I'd say we might see something like one change per unit, possibly both half backs changed... although I think we might see Murray in there if Sexton isn't playing.

molloyjh · 13-11-2017 01:55PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think this would necessarily match either what they're saying to the media or what we've seen done in the past. I certainly remember complaints about these matches not being "used properly" in the past.

I'd say we might see something like one change per unit, possibly both half backs changed... although I think we might see Murray in there if Sexton isn't playing.

Against Canada last year we went with:

Healy Cronin Bealham
Dillane Holland
POM JOD SOB

Marmion Jackson
Marshall Ringrose
Earls TOH Gilroy

Tracy, Kilcoyne, J Ryan, D Ryan, Leavy, McGrath, Carbery, Adeolokun

And if you go back to the Georgia game a few years ago we selected guys like Strauss, Foley, Dom Ryan, TOD, Diack, Reddan, Madigan, Cave, Gilroy and Jones with Ah You, Copeland, Marmion and Olding on the bench. We do tend to select second and third string in this fixture.

its_phil · 13-11-2017 01:56PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Well replace TOD with Leavy so.

As for Dillane, that's a tight call. He's the incumbent who is struggling badly for form. Treadwell is playing better at the moment. Treadwell was also in SA until the middle of last week so was never going to be involved with the squad on Saturday. I wouldn't necessarily read anything into Dillanes involvement. Either way I don't really care though tbh.

First I heard of Dillane struggling for form. Dropped a couple easy balls in the first couple rounds of Pro 14 but since then going strong.

Former Former · 13-11-2017 02:01PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Against Canada last year we went with:

Healy Cronin Bealham
Dillane Holland
POM JOD SOB

Marmion Jackson
Marshall Ringrose
Earls TOH Gilroy

Tracy, Kilcoyne, J Ryan, D Ryan, Leavy, McGrath, Carbery, Adeolokun

And if you go back to the Georgia game a few years ago we selected guys like Strauss, Foley, Dom Ryan, TOD, Diack, Reddan, Madigan, Cave, Gilroy and Jones with Ah You, Copeland, Marmion and Olding on the bench. We do tend to select second and third string in this fixture.

Last year we had the complication of the first team travelling back from Chicago (with serious hangovers) so there had to be a full rotation.

Still, I'd be surprised if there are more than one or two guys starting again.

13-11-2017 02:07PM

its_phil wrote: »

First I heard of Dillane struggling for form. Dropped a couple easy balls in the first couple rounds of Pro 14 but since then going strong.

I follow Connacht but not as closely obviously as others on here.

Purely in terms of the optics, he's gone from benching against the All Blacks to struggling to start for Connacht in the space of a year. I know he's had a few knocks but you would definitely say that his form hasn't been there.

I'd love to see him back though, he's powerful and aggressive and offers plenty in the loose.

molloyjh · 13-11-2017 02:07PM

its_phil wrote: »

First I heard of Dillane struggling for form. Dropped a couple easy balls in the first couple rounds of Pro 14 but since then going strong.

I haven't really been watching Connacht this season, but thought I saw a good few mentions of him being off so far this season, no?

Clegg · 13-11-2017 02:14PM

I thought James Ryan performed well on Saturday. Only got 10 minutes but didn't look underpowered against a big South African pack. It's easy to forget that this is his first season as a professional. There's a lot expected of him following on from his school days and his standout U20 performances and he's meeting those expectations. Thrown in at the last minute against Montpellier and was not outmatched by a massive opposition pack, an international cap on his professional debut and it didn't look like it bothered him in the slightest. We've a special player on our hands.

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2017 02:16PM

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/930061356350496769

FACECUTTR · 13-11-2017 02:16PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I follow Connacht but not as closely obviously as others on here.

Purely in terms of the optics, he's gone from benching against the All Blacks to struggling to start for Connacht in the space of a year. I know he's had a few knocks but you would definitely say that his form hasn't been there.

I'd love to see him back though, he's powerful and aggressive and offers plenty in the loose.

He he shoulder surgery and was a bit rusty when he came back. Took him a couple of games to get up to speed but the last 2 games he was fine. I'd imagine he will be chomping at the bit to get a run out and cause a bit of havoc.

Burkie1203 · 13-11-2017 02:17PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/930061356350496769

If Ryan has gone back to Munster that means Porter starts this week? Furlong to bench?

MJohnston · 13-11-2017 02:17PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Against Canada last year we went with:

Healy Cronin Bealham
Dillane Holland
POM JOD SOB

Marmion Jackson
Marshall Ringrose
Earls TOH Gilroy

Tracy, Kilcoyne, J Ryan, D Ryan, Leavy, McGrath, Carbery, Adeolokun

And if you go back to the Georgia game a few years ago we selected guys like Strauss, Foley, Dom Ryan, TOD, Diack, Reddan, Madigan, Cave, Gilroy and Jones with Ah You, Copeland, Marmion and Olding on the bench. We do tend to select second and third string in this fixture.

Thing is Fiji are definitely way better than Canada, and certainly ranked higher than Georgia in the WR rankings. Better than Argentina even, who have sussed us in the past. It seems like they've only just reached that rank too, which suggests they're improving.

Which is all not to say that I think we should have trouble winning here, just that they're a stronger outfit than many might think, and I think a second string team would really struggle, which would be a waste of a game.

I think there's a good balance where we maybe swap out a couple of extra positions that had experienced players in for a newbie (15 for definite imo), and also we use the bench early to get the rest of the newbies on while things are (hopefully) more comfortable.

molloyjh · 13-11-2017 02:25PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/930061356350496769

That's crap news for both Leavy and TOD.

molloyjh · 13-11-2017 02:27PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Thing is Fiji are definitely way better than Canada, and certainly ranked higher than Georgia in the WR rankings. Better than Argentina even, who have sussed us in the past. It seems like they've only just reached that rank too, which suggests they're improving.

Which is all not to say that I think we should have trouble winning here, just that they're a stronger outfit than many might think, and I think a second string team would really struggle, which would be a waste of a game.

I think there's a good balance where we maybe swap out a couple of extra positions that had experienced players in for a newbie (15 for definite imo), and also we use the bench early to get the rest of the newbies on while things are (hopefully) more comfortable.

Yeah, but if you look at the squad I mentioned you have either first or second choice players in every position with a few third choice on the bench. We really should be able to manage Fiji with those.

Icemancometh · 13-11-2017 02:30PM

molloyjh wrote: »

That's crap news for both Leavy and TOD.

Crap news for John Ryan too. He looked to have locked down the 18 shirt after taking it off Bealham.

connachta · 13-11-2017 02:31PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

You ignore my point too, which is giving gametime to TOH against Japan or Sweetnam/Conway against Fidji. Same if Stockdale is n°15 against Italy/Scotland for 6 nations. It is not enough to prepare plan B (Plan A IMO, but that's subject to controversy), against real RWC opposition (Barrett, Folau...)

I ignored it because it's making a massive assumption that TOH (and now you admit that's who you were talking about) will be the next full back.

That's not set in stone by any means. By his own admission, TOH has work to do to get back into the picture. He has an advantage now that Zebo has excluded himself from selection, but selection to the senior team isn't based on seniority, it's something you earn by doing what's required of you by the international coaches every day for your province first of all and then if you're good enough for the training squad, doing it there.

It might be instructive to read Andrew Conway's interview in The 42. But you need to take your fingers out of your ears and stop saying "La la la la la" to drown out any contrary opinion or facts. :rolleyes:

It's NOT about TOH, you misread on purpose. I quoted 4 hypothesis Conway, TOH, Stockdale, Sweetnam. At least 1 or 2 should be tested against big teams

Clegg · 13-11-2017 02:31PM

Leavy and VdF are two of the best younger backrow prospects we have, but neither can stay healthy for a prolonge dperiod. Awful news for the two of them.

What's also crap is the injury to John Ryan. Thought he did very well during his time on the pitch. Won a pen at scrum time and a turnover penalty as well. Looks like he could be a very capable backup to Furlong.

Buer · 13-11-2017 02:34PM

its_phil wrote: »

First I heard of Dillane struggling for form. Dropped a couple easy balls in the first couple rounds of Pro 14 but since then going strong.

I must have read it a half dozen times on the Connacht thread from Connacht fans this season.

Dillane has been disappointing this season,

I can see dillane being left out completely, hasn't really got going yet.

Hope Dillan can find some form,

Roux and dillan. Have both been v poor

Burkie1203 · 13-11-2017 02:45PM

connachta wrote: »

It's NOT about TOH, you misread on purpose. I quoted 4 hypothesis Conway, TOH, Stockdale, Sweetnam. At least 1 or 2 should be tested against big teams

Conway, Stockdale and Sweetnam all played v SA. Its possible 2 or all 3 will be involved v Fiji and Argentina too. So what exactly is your point

.ak · 13-11-2017 02:47PM

Clegg wrote: »

Leavy and VdF are two of the best younger backrow prospects we have, but neither can stay healthy for a prolonge dperiod. Awful news for the two of them.

What's also crap is the injury to John Ryan. Thought he did very well during his time on the pitch. Won a pen at scrum time and a turnover penalty as well. Looks like he could be a very capable backup to Furlong.

The fact leavy wasn't released suggests it's not serious tho

Former Former · 13-11-2017 02:48PM

Ryan returns to Munster, no one called up... Is Porter going to start against Fiji?

Don't think either TOD or Leavy being out is a surprise, both had been struggling. Reidy is quietly amassing a decent international career that, let's be honest, very few of us saw coming - but he's a solid performer. I'm delighted for Murphy to be getting another shot.

Bazzo · 13-11-2017 02:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I follow Connacht but not as closely obviously as others on here.

Purely in terms of the optics, he's gone from benching against the All Blacks to struggling to start for Connacht in the space of a year. I know he's had a few knocks but you would definitely say that his form hasn't been there.

I'd love to see him back though, he's powerful and aggressive and offers plenty in the loose.

He hasn't been struggling to start at all. He has started something like 7/10 games this season with the remaining three being: Cheetahs(not released by Ireland), Worcester in the challenge cup(rested), Dragons(injured possibly? Can't remember).

He has had some issues with handling in the earlier part the season which as mentioned can be put down to rustiness due to a long injury layoff but he's been steadily improving. His carrying is still top notch, I haven't seen less than 2 people put him down yet this season.

its_phil · 13-11-2017 02:50PM

Buer wrote: »

I must have read it a half dozen times on the Connacht thread from Connacht fans this season.

Like most posts around here I'd be more interested in who posted that then simply take a quote, and actually watching him week to week.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 02:51PM

connachta wrote: »

It's NOT about TOH, you misread on purpose. I quoted 4 hypothesis Conway, TOH, Stockdale, Sweetnam. At least 1 or 2 should be tested against big teams

Well stop mentioning him if you want to avoid confusion. Which is already in the upper quartile with your strange sentence structure. :rolleyes:

And you are still avoiding the point. Which is that you think you have a better idea of what's needed than the coaches.

its_phil · 13-11-2017 02:52PM

Bazzo wrote: »

He hasn't been struggling to start at all. He has started something like 7/10 games this season with the remaining three being: Cheetahs(not released by Ireland), Worcester in the challenge cup(rested), Dragons(injured possibly? Can't remember).

He has had some issues with handling early on in the season which as mentioned can be put down to rustiness due to a long injury layoff. His carrying is still top notch, I haven't seen less than 2 people put him down yet this season.

Yeah God forbid Connacht rotated.

Buer · 13-11-2017 02:59PM

its_phil wrote: »

Like most posts around here I'd be more interested in who posted that then simply take a quote, and actually watching him week to week.

All from different people, all well established posters on here and I didn't spend long looking.

I wouldn't follow the Connacht thread a huge amount but it's definitely something that stuck in the memory. When I see it posted multiple times, it tends to stick in the mind and contributes to a belief that he's not playing great. Perhaps he's going well but there definitely seems to be a perception amongst a few Connacht fans that he's not hitting the standards of the last few years.

connachta · 13-11-2017 02:59PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

It's NOT about TOH, you misread on purpose. I quoted 4 hypothesis Conway, TOH, Stockdale, Sweetnam. At least 1 or 2 should be tested against big teams

Conway, Stockdale and Sweetnam all played v SA. Its possible 2 or all 3 will be involved v Fiji and Argentina too. So what exactly is your point

Play one of them 15. And not against fidji, against big teams. If he doesn't work, bring the 2nd one of the list in (or TOH, that's not my point here). Prepare the RWC, prepare the after-Rob era, NOW. Full blank

mfceiling · 13-11-2017 03:00PM

molloyjh wrote: »

And if you go back to the Georgia game a few years ago we selected guys like Strauss, Foley, Dom Ryan, TOD, Diack, Reddan, Madigan, Cave, Gilroy and Jones with Ah You, Copeland, Marmion and Olding on the bench. We do tend to select second and third string in this fixture.

I remember being at that game and to be honest my one overriding memory was the girl in front of me with the horrendously tight jeans who kept jumping up and down. Shocking stuff altogether.

Also...did our sub front row absolutely mince the saffers scrum in the second half leading to a penalty? Or was I slightly drinker than I thought?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781