Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

connachta · 12-11-2017 04:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Granny15 wrote: »

He's on his way out the door. Unceremoniously too I might add with Carbery there and there about. Pompous pomp popped

Have you ever met Kearney? I have and he's incredibly personable and shows no obvious ego. I also know from those who've played with him that he is considered an absolute gent of the highest order.

I've no idea why he get's this sort of vitriol. It's baffling for someone who has been a great servant of Irish rugby and is a very decent bloke.

That's why I said previously Kearney is a gent and I (talking for my part) have nothing against him as a man in my comments

Teferi · 12-11-2017 05:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://i.imgur.com/58R8RHo.mp4

This is the example people are talking about. South Africa kicked a good bit in the first half, got absolutely nothing from it and tried to play more direct in the second half.

Kearney's clearance kick from the Irish try line to the mid field mark was worth the price of admission.

What an as$hole.

Was this video captured on a potato? I can't make anything out with the 10 pixels in the gif.

12-11-2017 05:26PM

Teferi wrote: »

Was this video captured on a potato? I can't make anything out with the 10 pixels in the gif.

Try this link - should work a bit better

Wegians89 · 12-11-2017 05:26PM

For Fiji I'd go with
1. McGrath
2. Herring
3. Ryan
4. Henderson
5. Ryan
6. Pom
7. Leavy
8. Conan
9. Murray
10. Carbery
11. Stockdale
12. Mcclosky
13. Henshaw
14. Sweetnam
15. Conway
16. Tracy
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Dillane
20. Pom
21. Mcgrath
22 keatley
23. Byrne
And for Argentina
1. McGrath/ Healy
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Dillane
5. Toner
6. ruddock
7. Sob
8. Conan
9. Marmion
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12 bundee
13. Henshaw/ farrell
14. Byrne
15. Conway
16. Tracy
17. McGrath/ Healy
18. Porter
19. Treadwell
20. Leavy
21. McGrath
22. Carbery
23. D Kearney
Injury permitting and trying to get everyone in the squad an appearance

.ak · 12-11-2017 07:27PM

Granny15 wrote: »

O hall Oran is a real man. Not interested in publicity and pouting at the cameras. I haven't met him in real life I don't need to suffice it to say he thinks he is better than he is. He's never truly been tested at international level and just sticks to the basics

Maybe you should stick to the basics yourself. Less of the personal attacks.

leakyboots · 12-11-2017 07:41PM

Lads, we're veering towards the stage on here with Kearney where he gets high praise for doing the simple basic functions of his position - He cleared to touch! He caught a high ball unchallenged! He patted his inexperienced teammate on the head!

In fairness, these don't constitute being one of the best performers at all. He was average to solid, that's about as good as you're going to get and have gotten from RK at this level in a while.

What about the extras - the breaking of the gainline, instigating the counterattack in broken play, the killer pass to setup a try or put someone through etc. Kearney rarely passes, rarely runs into open space 'cos he hasn't the physicality, the gas or the step. He should have been making hay out there like his fellow back 3 players.

I don't think he has these facets to his regular game and that's why people want to see someone else tried there a la Zebo/Carbery/TOH, see what they bring to the table of a period of games.

I guess it boils down to solidity v wanting that bit more in attack. I've no idea what his personality has to do with anything in relation to how he plays, always struck me as a nice fella for what it's worth.

irishbucsfan · 12-11-2017 07:49PM

leakyboots wrote: »

In fairness, these don't constitute being one of the best performers at all. He was average to solid, that's about as good as you're going to get and have gotten from RK at this level in a while.

Except the NZ game this time last year?

I'd be happy to see Conway or TOH tried there before the end of the season. Not sure who the long term future is. But until then we've a good player who on his day completely removes the opposition's in-field kicking options, a great tool for us.

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 12-11-2017 07:58PM

In all fairness well done joe schmidt and players - stockdale has serious potential, ruddock was excellent when he came on.
I posted here that the SA result might have an effect on the decision for 2023 and I think it might.
2023 world cup is only 6 years away.
Japan 2019 has the potential to be poorly attended - Japan will not get out if their group.
South Africa in 2023 I believe could go the same way. South African rugby is in a bad way and by 2023 I think they will slip further and there is the potential for the next 2 world cups, if SA get 2023, to damage the rugby brand.
That hammering yesterday is a little reminder that south africa rugby is still a black and white issue.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 08:19PM

leakyboots wrote: »

Lads, we're veering towards the stage on here with Kearney where he gets high praise for doing the simple basic functions of his position - He cleared to touch! He caught a high ball unchallenged! He patted his inexperienced teammate on the head!

In fairness, these don't constitute being one of the best performers at all. He was average to solid, that's about as good as you're going to get and have gotten from RK at this level in a while.

What about the extras - the breaking of the gainline, instigating the counterattack in broken play, the killer pass to setup a try or put someone through etc. Kearney rarely passes, rarely runs into open space 'cos he hasn't the physicality, the gas or the step. He should have been making hay out there like his fellow back 3 players.

I don't think he has these facets to his regular game and that's why people want to see someone else tried there a la Zebo/Carbery/TOH, see what they bring to the table of a period of games.

I guess it boils down to solidity v wanting that bit more in attack. I've no idea what his personality has to do with anything in relation to how he plays, always struck me as a nice fella for what it's worth.

Nobody has said kearney was anything more then solid but thats exactly what the coach wants right new. He is trying to introduce quite a few new players right now. It helps if there is a bit of solidity at the back then so be it. That will help the new guys build confidence at this level.

https://twitter.com/threeredkings/status/929771503423541248

connachta · 12-11-2017 08:19PM

leakyboots wrote: »

Lads, we're veering towards the stage on here with Kearney where he gets high praise for doing the simple basic functions of his position - He cleared to touch! He caught a high ball unchallenged! He patted his inexperienced teammate on the head!

In fairness, these don't constitute being one of the best performers at all. He was average to solid, that's about as good as you're going to get and have gotten from RK at this level in a while.

What about the extras - the breaking of the gainline, instigating the counterattack in broken play, the killer pass to setup a try or put someone through etc. Kearney rarely passes, rarely runs into open space 'cos he hasn't the physicality, the gas or the step. He should have been making hay out there like his fellow back 3 players.

I don't think he has these facets to his regular game and that's why people want to see someone else tried there a la Zebo/Carbery/TOH, see what they bring to the table of a period of games.

I guess it boils down to solidity v wanting that bit more in attack. I've no idea what his personality has to do with anything in relation to how he plays, always struck me as a nice fella for what it's worth.

thank you. I don't think less, I don't think more than that

12-11-2017 08:26PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Nobody has said kearney was anything more then solid but thats exactly what the coach wants right new. He is trying to introduce quite a few new players right now. It helps if there is a bit of solidity at the back then so be it. That will help the new guys build confidence at this level.

https://twitter.com/threeredkings/status/929771503423541248

Remember that time Dave Kearney did what Conway does here....

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 09:16PM

connachta wrote: »

thank you. I don't think less, I don't think more than that

But you think thats unacceptable.

Yet the guy who has won 2 European Cups, 2 6n titles, 1 pro12 and 1 challenge cup as a coach thinks otherwise.

Former Former · 12-11-2017 10:06PM

Last night's game and the subsequent reaction to it showed us exactly why Kearney is such a divisive figure.

There is a complete disconnect between what Joe wants and what a large number of fans want.

Kearney's performance was exactly the sort of performance that has made him undroppable for the best part of a decade. And it was exactly the sort of performance that would get his critics all riled up. He was rock solid, tidied up dirty ball, was exactly where he should have been every time... but he never tore open the defence or bamboozled anyone with a wicked step. It was regulation-issue full back play. If he continues to play like that he'll continue to be untouchable. So what's the problem?

The problem is not that people want someone else at full back; it's that they convince themselves that Joe will finally have his road to Damascus moment on this.

Prior to this squad announcement, people were fully convinced that a fit Rob Kearney would be left out of a 38 man squad. What team have you all been watching these past nine years? Now, the theory is that Conway and Stockdale need an experienced hand between them and that's why he's being kept around. Come on lads.

It's not objectively wrong to say Joe should pick someone like TOH. The problem arises when people assume he will. And then when he doesn't, they go nuts.

There is a reason Conway and Stockdale were picked. There is a reason TOH wasn't, there's a reason Gilroy has been tossed aside, why Matt Healy never got picked, why Adam Byrne may well struggle to get involved, why Trimble was such a favourite, why Dave Kearney gets called up.

There's a pattern here that hasn't changed one iota in four years. Players as lacking in the basics as some named above simply won't get picked. But people always seem to think that this year, finally Joe will see the light. He won't.

connachta · 12-11-2017 10:10PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

thank you. I don't think less, I don't think more than that

But you think thats unacceptable.

Yet the guy who has won 2 European Cups, 2 6n titles, 1 pro12 and 1 challenge cup as a coach thinks otherwise.

Again I don't care about the past. It's irrelevant. What matters is now. And he's no more above the competitors.

pickarooney · 12-11-2017 10:13PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was curious about this myself. I presume they know the rules better than we do.

You give them to much credit with that assumption. Watching England against Italy last year, may and Beale trying to scrummage and many players trying to adapt to minor rule changes, it seems a lot don't have any interest in the game beyond the basics of their own position.

connachta · 12-11-2017 10:18PM

Former your post is painful and mostly true. But hope we keep. Age helping, Trimble and Kearneys might, and I say might be dropped when the gap will be too wide to be hidden.

Before September 2019, for the sake of the Irish team in Japan. I don't want a spanking from audacious teams who enjoy their rugby like Argentina or Wales again.

12-11-2017 10:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I was curious about this myself. I presume they know the rules better than we do.

It looked to me like one was trying to move back to enter the tackle area through the gate and they both pretty much got in each others way. It was a weird one though.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 10:25PM

connachta wrote: »

Again I don't care about the past. It's irrelevant. What matters is now. And he's no more above the competitors.

But Kearney is above the competitors for what a very successful coach wants from his 15. If the others offered that then there is every chance they picked. But they dont.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 10:28PM

connachta wrote: »

Former your post is painful and mostly true. But hope we keep. Age helping, Trimble and Kearneys might, and I say might be dropped when the gap will be too wide to be hidden.

Before September 2019, for the sake of the Irish team in Japan. I don't want a spanking from audacious teams who enjoy their rugby like Argentina or Wales again.

But there is no guarantee Kearney will be at the rwc. Your speculating on two years from now

bilston · 12-11-2017 10:48PM

I have to say I don't get it. I thought Kearney had a fine game last night. He ran it loads of times and made good yards. The back three did really well and Sweetman did a great job for the few minutes he was on as well. That's with Earls missing and Jared Payne who will probably be seen as a FB now (if he returns) with the various centre options available. There are some pretty good options emerging.

The Rape of Lucretia · 12-11-2017 10:50PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

But there is no guarantee Kearney will be at the rwc. Your speculating on two years from now

Bobster unlikely to be there alright, and I would be hoping we have someone better coming through to dethrone him.
But several possibilities. Conway. Sweetnam. We will know well before then whether Jackson will play again or not, and if he does, then Carbo has to be a serious option to develop at 15. Quite possible that Madser or Zeebs could come back into the fold too.
It is an open position post Kearney, and sure, there is no clear international level natural heir, right at the moment. But there is no need to panic yet that one of these will not develop to it over the next couple of years.

connachta · 12-11-2017 10:50PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Former your post is painful and mostly true. But hope we keep. Age helping, Trimble and Kearneys might, and I say might be dropped when the gap will be too wide to be hidden.

Before September 2019, for the sake of the Irish team in Japan. I don't want a spanking from audacious teams who enjoy their rugby like Argentina or Wales again.

But there is no guarantee Kearney will be at the rwc. Your speculating on two years from now

That's all matters. RWC. Glory.
The problem is : if nobody is properly tested at least for 8-10 games as FB, Kearney will be kept until the end "by default".
Schmidt will show in January if he retracts on himself after Zebo exile, or opens up to avoid another written scenario.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 10:56PM

connachta wrote: »

That's all matters. RWC. Glory.
The problem is : if nobody is properly tested at least for 8-10 games as FB, Kearney will be kept until the end "by default".
Schmidt will show if he retracts on himself after Zebo exile, or opens up to avoid another written scenario.

So has Bowe, Trimble, McFadden been kept, or are other players being tested. You know like Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam maybe? Or Adam Byrne next week maybe.

We dont need to test another fullback right now.

RWC is not all that matters. Far from it.

The Rape of Lucretia · 12-11-2017 10:58PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

So has Bowe, Trimble, McFadden been kept, or are other players being tested. You know like Stockdale, Conway, Sweetnam maybe? Or Adam Byrne next week maybe.

We dont need to test another fullback right now.

RWC is not all that matters. Far from it.

Conway next week surely ?

Former Coach · 12-11-2017 10:58PM

Granny15 wrote: »

O hall Oran is a real man. Not interested in publicity and pouting at the cameras. I haven't met him in real life I don't need to suffice it to say he thinks he is better than he is. He's never truly been tested at international level and just sticks to the basics

Not sure what you are trying to say here! On one hand you're saying he's not interested in publicity and pouting at the cameras, then you're saying that he thinks he's better than he is. All this despite never having met him.
I'd suggest you speak with somebody who knows him or make it your business to meet and talk with him. You might then understand why he is so highly respected among his team-mates and is a huge favourite with Connacht supporters (he and Bundee are more often than not the last players to get to the changing rooms after matches so that as many supporters as possible can get autographs and photographs.

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 11:00PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Conway next week surely ?

D Kearney, Sweetnam, Byrne back 3 with Marmion, Carbery, McCloskey, Farrell at 9-10-12-13 is a possibility.

Conway could bench

The Rape of Lucretia · 12-11-2017 11:08PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

D Kearney, Sweetnam, Byrne back 3 with Marmion, Carbery, McCloskey, Farrell at 9-10-12-13 is a possibility.

Conway could bench

Possible. Think Dave is more backup wing/bench material now that Joe has shown there is a change of the back three guard rolling out. Surely you press on with them even in a lesser game ? Sweetnam to start, Byrne to start or Stockdale again and Byrne to come of the bench for one of them if the game is safe. Conway as back up 15 has to be seriously looked at now and urgently with Zeebs out of the picture for the 6N. This is an ideal game to ease Conway into that role. An opportunity not to be missed. Then back to the wing for the Argie game, and 10 or 15 late in the game at fb again if that game is safe.

prawnsambo · 12-11-2017 11:08PM

connachta wrote: »

That's all matters. RWC. Glory.
The problem is : if nobody is properly tested at least for 8-10 games as FB, Kearney will be kept until the end "by default".
Schmidt will show in January if he retracts on himself after Zebo exile, or opens up to avoid another written scenario.

OMG!

The horror!

I can't believe Joe hasn't seen this problem and thought of an answer. Will you call him or should I?

connachta · 12-11-2017 11:26PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

That's all matters. RWC. Glory.
The problem is : if nobody is properly tested at least for 8-10 games as FB, Kearney will be kept until the end "by default".
Schmidt will show in January if he retracts on himself after Zebo exile, or opens up to avoid another written scenario.

OMG!

The horror!

I can't believe Joe hasn't seen this problem and thought of an answer. Will you call him or should I?

You should. Everybody should. Instead of saying "Conway will bench, play 10 min as FB, we're good to go for RWC". Or worse "look Sweetnam starts against Fiji, and create excuses when it's back to Rob for any meaningful games" (no disrespect for Fiji but...)

Burkie1203 · 12-11-2017 11:29PM

connachta wrote: »

You should. Everybody should. Instead of saying "Conway will bench, play 10 min as FB, we're good to go for RWC". Or worse "look Sweetnam starts against Fiji, and create excuses when it's back to Rob for any meaningful games" (no disrespect for Fiji but...)

But for the IRFU every game is meaningful. You do understand that yeah?

Joe doesn't need to create excuses to pick Rob Kearney. He clearly thinks he is the best 15 he has available have you not grasped that concept yet

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781