Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn sent hom from European Tour.

HandsomeBob · 09-11-2017 5:34pm

I don't think Mcmahon would take the decision lightly to send two stars home when they've been advertised to appear. So I'd say it's legit and not a work.

I can well believe as well that Owens would be the more distraught of the two. I get the impression Zayn really is happy go lucky and would take things as they come.

Would be unfortunate in the extreme as to me, logically they did the right thing. As in the chicken sh1t heels are bound to retreat. As I said before, I think the wheels are slowly coming off. Could well see a transition period as more and more become unhappy.

Monokne · 09-11-2017 5:47pm

I think the "it's a work" brigade give WWE far too much credit. We get these same theories all the time. People speculated on Titus' suspension being a work last year as well.

Vince doesn't have the capacity to do things out of the box like that, nor, put bluntly, does he seem to see or perceive a value in extending kayfabe that far anyway. This is the same guy who routinely breaks kayfabe in the course of his own broadcasts.

Suspect they will be back in a few weeks. This will be referred to in vague terms and the "it's a work" crowd will leap on it and claim they were right.

The irony of this debate 20 years after Montreal isn't lost on me I must say!

Omackeral · 09-11-2017 5:54pm

I dunno if you're referring to people on here as a brigade or an I told you so group but i don't get that vibe from this community really.

The difference with this and the Titus thing though for me is that this actually would make storyline sense. We'll see.

Mr.Nice Guy · 09-11-2017 6:10pm

Meltzer on this:

Some people thought "Oh they said the wrong thing" because there was a reference to men of honor, and people thought "Oh they're bringing up Ring of Honor, this was all just a normal interview where they went off the script" - none of that's true. And if they did, it would have been edited and nothing was. So it was nothing to do with the interview, it had nothing to do with the match, the finish was exactly what the finish was supposed to be, which was Kofi off the top rope with the crossbody. The prolem came after that.

What happened was...the post-match...Kevin Owens ran in, as he was supposed to, and then the New Day ran in to chase out Kevin Owens, and he rolled out of the ring, and Sami Zayn rolled out of the ring, and they left. But apparently neither Kevin Owens nor Sami Zayn were supposed to leave. They were supposed to stay and get beat up. So that's the issue. However there's other people who are saying that it was just a complete miscommunication and it wasn't like they wouldn't get beat up. There was not even an issue over them being mad. I would have been mad if I was Sami Zayn losing to Kofi this early after the turn. I think that's completely stupid booking but that's a different issue. There was no issue with that.

The issue was the feeling they were expected to get beat up after he lost, they were all supposed to get beat up, and somehow by him getting pinned, and getting beaten up again, that was supposed to build heat for their feud that starts in Charlotte next week, with the tag team match. So that's the story.

They were told to leave, go back to the hotel, and fly home, they flew home, and they're off the tour. As far as anything else, it's up in the air. They may be back on Tuesday, they may never be back, maybe something in between. But right now there's nothing official other than they're not going to be on the rest of the tour. They had to rearrange the show in Leeds, England. The New Day of course was on the Raw side because that was decreed when Triple H went home, that they felt they needed more star power on the Raw side with no Roman Reigns. So the Raw main events for the rest of the week are going to be 3-ways with Sheamus and Cesaro defending against Ambrose and Rollins and also defending against the New Day.

My initial reaction to this was that it was a work but the fact they had to rearrange their plans significantly on a tour already dogged by absences leads me to think now that it's legit. I don't think they would inconvenience audiences just to try and get over a Smackdown storyline. That seems like an awful lot of business hassle to go through over a creative move.

jrkb · 09-11-2017 6:10pm

If its a work its a real kick in the teeth for fans who bought tickets to see Owens and Zayn I know I did and id be reluctant to buy tickets in the future if that kind of ****e was happening.

Omackeral · 09-11-2017 6:16pm

Have to laugh at Big Money Meltz "they might be back on Tuesday, they might never be back again, or something in between." Talk about hedging your bets! Can't be wrong.

Agent Coulson · 09-11-2017 6:16pm

Card is subject to change.

Monokne · 09-11-2017 6:17pm

Omackeral wrote: »

I dunno if you're referring to people on here as a brigade or an I told you so group but i don't get that vibe from this community really.

The difference with this and the Titus thing though for me is that this actually would make storyline sense. We'll see.

I have read people throwing out the idea on the Observer board, here, and on Twitter. Easier than typing that out was just BRIGADE.

:

Omackeral · 09-11-2017 6:24pm

Monokne wrote: »

I have read people throwing out the idea on the Observer board, here, and on Twitter. Easier than typing that out was just BRIGADE. :

Fair enough. It was just this bit that came off snide if it was only here you were referring to;

Suspect they will be back in a few weeks. This will be referred to in vague terms and the "it's a work" crowd will leap on it and claim they were right.

I don't see PW Boards users really being like that for the most part. Other parts of the net can be toxic in comparison

SureYWouldntYa · 09-11-2017 6:27pm

It's a real pity this has happened when it has

KO for me anyway was really starting to feel like a proper main eventer with the Shane O Mac feud, far stronger than when he was Universal Champion

And Sami Zayn was finally given something proper to do, for the first time in a long time

Lithium93_ · 09-11-2017 6:28pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Hopefully they don't come back.
Two average performers pushed beyond their station. Especially Zayn.
It's guys like them that make casual fans laugh and ask "how are these guys wrestlers?"

jrkb wrote: »

So Sami finally gets a chance and then messes it up could be the last we hear from him.

Jumping the gun bit there folks.

jrkb · 09-11-2017 6:33pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Jumping the gun bit there folks.

yea because vince is so forgiving

Lithium93_ · 09-11-2017 6:36pm

jrkb wrote: »

yea because vince is so forgiving

It'll only be a slap on the wrist for both of them.

jrkb · 09-11-2017 6:40pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

It'll only be a slap on the wrist for both of them.

Im hoping so just fear for Sami as its so soon after they began to push him.

Lithium93_ · 09-11-2017 6:41pm

jrkb wrote: »

Im hoping so just fear for Sami as its so soon after they began to push him.

You're reading too much into it, i'll be thoroughly shocked if they end up future endeavored.

sirmanga · 09-11-2017 6:48pm

What could these two possibly have to be upset about?
They are lucky that the business is as desperate as it is that two ordinary looking guys like them can make it to the main roster, nevermind a main event storyline.
There is a sense of entitlement bred into some of these NXT call ups. I have read a lot of interviews and articles where Zayn, Bayley, Banks and others have stated their unhappiness with the direction of their career on the main roster.
They all need to get over themselves. And I mean that in more ways than one.

Lithium93_ · 09-11-2017 6:54pm

sirmanga wrote: »

What could these two possibly have to be upset about?
They are lucky that the business is as desperate as it is that two ordinary looking guys like them can make it to the main roster, nevermind a main event storyline.
There is a sense of entitlement bred into some of these NXT call ups. I have read a lot of interviews and articles where Zayn, Bayley, Banks and others have stated their unhappiness with the direction of their career on the main roster.
They all need to get over themselves. And I mean that in more ways than one.

You know it's easy to sit at a computer and criticize those who have put in the miles, blood, sweat and tears on the independent circuit to get to the WWE.

As for being unhappy with their career direction, everyone's unhappy with their jobs in one way or another, as for those you've mentioned, you can't blame them. I mean WWE storylines aren't exactly logical or keeping with continuity from week to week.

But sure throw out the clichéd "sense of entitlement/get over themselves"

As if you'd do freaking better.

sirmanga · 09-11-2017 6:59pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

sirmanga wrote: »

What could these two possibly have to be upset about?
They are lucky that the business is as desperate as it is that two ordinary looking guys like them can make it to the main roster, nevermind a main event storyline.
There is a sense of entitlement bred into some of these NXT call ups. I have read a lot of interviews and articles where Zayn, Bayley, Banks and others have stated their unhappiness with the direction of their career on the main roster.
They all need to get over themselves. And I mean that in more ways than one.

You know it's easy to sit at a computer and criticize those who have put in the miles, blood, sweat and tears on the independent circuit to get to the WWE.

As for being unhappy with their career direction, everyone's unhappy with their jobs in one way or another, as for those you've mentioned, you can't blame them. I mean WWE storylines aren't exactly logical or keeping with continuity from week to week.

But sure throw out the clichéd "sense of entitlement/get over themselves"

As if you'd do freaking better.

And here's me thinking this was a discussion forum, not an echo chamber.
OK, I see how it works now. Here it goes;
Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn are so entertaining. The wrestling business has never been better.

Omackeral · 09-11-2017 7:02pm

Whatever about their body types, Zayn and Owens are both ultra charismatic guys capable of great matches and they connect with the audience much more than a guy like, for example Matt Morgan, who had a great look and could do a passable match. Looks aren't everything thankfully.

Lithium93_ · 09-11-2017 7:04pm

sirmanga wrote: »

And here's me thinking this was a discussion forum, not an echo chamber.
OK, I see how it works now. Here it goes;
Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn are so entertaining. The wrestling business has never been better.

You're entitled to your opinion, but when it's such a silly one, you'll be called on it.

And the wrestling business is actually better than it was, what with the explosion of the independents, New Japan, Ring Of Honor, and countless other indie wrestling promotions around the world.

sirmanga · 09-11-2017 7:22pm

Lithium93_ wrote: »

sirmanga wrote: »

And here's me thinking this was a discussion forum, not an echo chamber.
OK, I see how it works now. Here it goes;
Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn are so entertaining. The wrestling business has never been better.

You're entitled to your opinion, but when it's such a silly one, you'll be called on it.

And the wrestling business is actually better than it was, what with the explosion of the independents, New Japan, Ring Of Honor, and countless other indie wrestling promotions around the world.

Better than it was?
Look at who is on top. Guys nobody cares about.
I have many friends who gave up watching over the last few years and whenever they see guys like Zayn and Owens all they can say is "Is this what passes for a wrestler these days? "
Wrestling needs the larger than life characters; Hogan, Austin, Warrior, Rock.
Because us hardcore fans will watch no matter what.
Bret Hart is my favourite wrestler ever, but the era where he had his run was one of the worst in history, perhaps second only to the current era of entitlement

Lord TSC · 09-11-2017 7:30pm

Owens was easily the best thing about the Smackdown show last week in a Dublin, and has been one of the best parts of Smackdown Tv as well. The show would be significantly worse off without him.

sirmanga · 09-11-2017 7:41pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

Owens was easily the best thing about the Smackdown show last week in a Dublin, and has been one of the best parts of Smackdown Tv as well. The show would be significantly worse off without him.

It's because we, as fans, have now set the bar so low.
Owens is the best thing on Smackdown. Which is a very sad statement.
This is WWE! Those letter used to mean something. What great entertainment it used to provide.
Now it's just like "well, he was the best thing on the show."
When you compare it to football, people always talk about how Best, Pele etc would fair in today's leagues with Ronaldo, Messi and whoever else.
Can you imagine anyone looking at Sami Zayn and thinking, "Gee, I wonder how The Rock would hang with this guy."

Agent Coulson · 09-11-2017 7:46pm

Real talent can hang with anyone.

The Rock and The Hurricane were great.

Lord TSC · 09-11-2017 7:55pm

sirmanga wrote: »

It's because we, as fans, have now set the bar so low.
Owens is the best thing on Smackdown. Which is a very sad statement.
This is WWE! Those letter used to mean something. What great entertainment it used to provide.
Now it's just like "well, he was the best thing on the show."
When you compare it to football, people always talk about how Best, Pele etc would fair in today's leagues with Ronaldo, Messi and whoever else.
Can you imagine anyone looking at Sami Zayn and thinking, "Gee, I wonder how The Rock would hang with this guy."

At bets, you're remembering things with rose tinted glasses.

Owens is straight out of the Attitude era. He'd have slotted in perfectly with all of them. Can talk, wrestle and tell brilliant stories. I know everyone can have an opinion, but you are straight up spouting BS on that one.

Sami is a midcarder who can venture into the uppermidcard. Comparing him to the Rock is utterly unfair. He's never been presented near that level, so compare him with the people of his level from the Attitude Era if you want that arguement to be taken serious,t.

Mr.Nice Guy · 09-11-2017 7:55pm

sirmanga wrote: »

It's because we, as fans, have now set the bar so low.
Owens is the best thing on Smackdown. Which is a very sad statement.
This is WWE! Those letter used to mean something. What great entertainment it used to provide.
Now it's just like "well, he was the best thing on the show."
When you compare it to football, people always talk about how Best, Pele etc would fair in today's leagues with Ronaldo, Messi and whoever else.
Can you imagine anyone looking at Sami Zayn and thinking, "Gee, I wonder how The Rock would hang with this guy."

I agree with some of your sentiments that there are a lot of really poor characters in wrestling today but I think you've chosen the wrong targets to make that point in Zayn and Owens.

Those are actually two guys that can do well on the mic and in the ring, and who I would say make the show more watchable.

DM_7 · 09-11-2017 7:58pm

sirmanga wrote: »

It's because we, as fans, have now set the bar so low.
Owens is the best thing on Smackdown. Which is a very sad statement.
This is WWE! Those letter used to mean something. What great entertainment it used to provide.
Now it's just like "well, he was the best thing on the show."
When you compare it to football, people always talk about how Best, Pele etc would fair in today's leagues with Ronaldo, Messi and whoever else.
Can you imagine anyone looking at Sami Zayn and thinking, "Gee, I wonder how The Rock would hang with this guy."

Hang with in what sense? Sami is as good on the mic as guys like Bret Hart. Owens could hang with anyone in ring or talking.

Fair play to you for making discussion but I not sure of your problem with the two lads, is it their look?

Owens in another era could be injecting his butt cheeks with steroids like Bret Hart did, or Hogan, or Warrior or whoever. That era is done.

sirmanga · 09-11-2017 8:01pm

Yeah, I suppose Owens would have fit in during the Attitude Era.
He could have been Mankind's mystery opponent in the Deadly Games tournament at Survivor Series 1998, instead of Dwayne Gill.

Necro · 09-11-2017 8:03pm

sirmanga wrote:

What could these two possibly have to be upset about? They are lucky that the business is as desperate as it is that two ordinary looking guys like them can make it to the main roster, nevermind a main event storyline. There is a sense of entitlement bred into some of these NXT call ups. I have read a lot of interviews and articles where Zayn, Bayley, Banks and others have stated their unhappiness with the direction of their career on the main roster. They all need to get over themselves. And I mean that in more ways than one.

Sweet Jesus Christ who went and pissed in your cornflakes. In a week where Jinder Mahal was dethroned as WWE champ you find these guys over rated :rolleyes:

What next, AJ Styles will never be as good as Hulk Hogan? Cos that's the type of nonsensical comparisons you're making.

Mr.Nice Guy · 09-11-2017 8:08pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose Owens would have fit in during the Attitude Era.
He could have been Mankind's mystery opponent in the Deadly Games tournament at Survivor Series 1998, instead of Dwayne Gill.

Funny thing is Mankind didn't look like what passed for a wrestler in the 90s WWF either. Vince initially didn't want Foley because of his look and Jim Ross had to basically beg him to give him a chance. The rest is history.

Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn sent hom from European Tour.

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