Are we over the annual poppy thread?

maryishere · 08-11-2017 08:58PM

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care about the german team, they aren't relevant to me.

Most of the British public do not care about James McLean, he is not relevant to them. I am still surprised at the German team all wearing Poppies. Great to see they can move on, as DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: 'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way.
'They're about remembering the kind of values that were kicked to the ground in two World Wars but are cherished by football: respect, tolerance, and humanity.'

end of the road · 08-11-2017 09:22PM

maryishere wrote: »

Fixed that for you.

you didn't fix it. you told a lie.

maryishere wrote: »

Most of the British public do not care about James McLean, he is not relevant to them.

and that's great. it means they respect his choice, unlike some others, including yourself.

08-11-2017 09:25PM

maryishere wrote: »

Most of the British public do not care about James McLean, he is not relevant to them. I am still surprised at the German team all wearing Poppies. Great to see they can move on, as DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: 'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way.
'They're about remembering the kind of values that were kicked to the ground in two World Wars but are cherished by football: respect, tolerance, and humanity.'

One of those values kicked to the ground was the freedom of expression. The English & German teams aren't on a higher moral plane compared to James McClean. He has chosen not to wear a poppy, they have. Both are equal in my view.

citytillidie · 08-11-2017 09:27PM

maryishere wrote: »

Most of the British public do not care about James McLean, he is not relevant to them. I am still surprised at the German team all wearing Poppies. Great to see they can move on, as DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: 'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way.
'They're about remembering the kind of values that were kicked to the ground in two World Wars but are cherished by football: respect, tolerance, and humanity.'

Well considering Germany want to forget all about the wars they will take the easy route.

If the game was in Germany I doubt they would be wearing them.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 09:45PM

end of the road wrote: »

you didn't fix it. you told a lie.

I did fix it, and I showed a link to back up the figures. I did not tell a lie. The figures may not be to your liking, but they are the figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

FrancieBrady · 08-11-2017 09:49PM

As this article shows, even the use of 'statistics' can be political.

http://thepensivequill.am/2011/11/statistics-of-conflict-and-conflict-of.html

citytillidie · 08-11-2017 09:51PM

maryishere wrote: »

I did fix it, and I showed a link to back up the figures. I did not tell a lie. The figures may not be to your liking, but they are the figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

So the majority of the kills by the BA were innocent people

Thanks that is all we needed to know why a person from Ireland may not wish to wear a poppy

not yet · 08-11-2017 09:52PM

maryishere wrote: »

Most of the British public do not care about James McLean, he is not relevant to them. I am still surprised at the German team all wearing Poppies. Great to see they can move on, as DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: 'I positively welcome the decision to allow both the English and the German national teams to wear poppy armbands, because these are not about political propaganda in any way.
'They're about remembering the kind of values that were kicked to the ground in two World Wars but are cherished by football: respect, tolerance, and humanity.'

You are truly, truly deluded..

maryishere · 08-11-2017 09:59PM

citytillidie wrote: »

So the majority of the kills by the BA were innocent people

Yes, a total of 187 people over nearly four decades were civilians. That is one person every 3 months. And the BA killed some Loyalists as well as themselves too.
To put that in perspective, Republicans killed well over two thousand people.
Irish security forces killed civilians too.

tomwaterford · 08-11-2017 10:01PM

maryishere wrote: »

Yes, a total of 187 people over nearly four decades. That is one person every 3 months.
To put that in perspective, Republicans killed well over two thousand people.

Instead the British deployed unionist paramilitaries to do their bidding??

Handy way yous British always sidestep your mass murdering exploits as usual

Binkie Plebum · 08-11-2017 10:03PM

The whole poppy thing is just a joke at this stage.

A load of virtue signalers intent on showing to the world how much they care without actually giving a fiddlers.

Do you honestly think at any minutes silence for the dead of the world wars that all the people in the crowd think of those who died for the minute. Of course they don't, they just day dream like people do at every other minutes silence they are forced to observe for someone they don't know .

We now have our own Taoiseach joining in this charade trying to start a tradition here when he like everybody else in this country could just choose to commemorate things privately if they wanted.The country has got on just fine without any such traditions and we should strive to keep things that way before we end up with people being expected to conform to a tradition just to look good to others.

citytillidie · 08-11-2017 10:05PM

maryishere wrote: »

Yes, a total of 187 people over nearly four decades. That is one person every 3 months.
To put that in perspective, Republicans killed well over two thousand people.

I am just talking about innocent people

Army and their terror groups killed 1065 republicans 723

citytillidie · 08-11-2017 10:07PM

This tells you all about the people behind the poppy

https://twitter.com/crimesofbrits/status/924705788702142464

maryishere · 08-11-2017 10:11PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Instead the British deployed unionist paramilitaries to do their bidding??

Do not forget 60% of those killed in the troubles were killed by Republicans, and 99% of the property damaged by done by Republicans.
The British wanted peace as (a) N.Ireland was an embarrassment internationally (b) it was very costly to them, in more ways than one. (c) there was a huge financial loss to the province as a result of the troubles eg lost tourism revenue, lost investment etc. Republicans pursued the "armed struggle" thinking that eventually the armed struggle would win.

Binkie Plebum · 08-11-2017 10:14PM

maryishere wrote: »

Do not forget 60% of those killed in the troubles were killed by Republicans, and 99% of the property damaged by done by Republicans.
The British wanted peace as (a) N.Ireland was an embarrassment internationally (b) it was very costly to them, in more ways than one. (c) there was a huge financial loss to the province as a result of the troubles eg lost tourism revenue, lost investment etc. Republicans pursued the "armed struggle" thinking that eventually the armed struggle would win.

The republicans did win.They manged to finally get some equality for republicans in the north.

not yet · 08-11-2017 10:15PM

citytillidie wrote: »

I am just talking about innocent people

Army and their terror groups killed 1065 republicans 723

Hope you don't mind, I fixed that for ya.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 10:18PM

citytillidie wrote: »

I am just talking about innocent people

Who are innocent people? McGuinness refused to condemn the murder of the Protestant census collector in Derry. He refused to condemn the murder of the cook who was forced to drive a lorry in to a BA checkpoint, which was then exploded. The same McGuinness who was a hero and good friend of James McClean, according to McClean himself. Most normal people would consider a census collector and a cook innocent victims. Would you consider people rioting / throwing petrol bombs to be innocent victims?

Skylinehead · 08-11-2017 10:21PM

Mod: Don't turn this into a Troubles thread. I get that it's related but when we're talking casualty numbers it's way off track.

not yet · 08-11-2017 10:22PM

Binkie Plebum wrote: »

The republicans did win.They manged to finally get some equality for republicans in the north.

Not only that but the 6 counties will soon be back where they belong before they were taken by force.

I heard a wonderful analogy today. A friend of mine was talking to an ex BA man who couldn't/wouldn't understand the fuss about the north.

My mate said to him, I'll move into your kitchen and stay there, and when you try to put me out I'll get a gang of mates to come over and kick the sh1t out of you.

citytillidie · 08-11-2017 10:22PM

maryishere wrote: »

Do not forget 60% of those killed in the troubles were killed by Republicans, and 99% of the property damaged by done by Republicans.
The British wanted peace as (a) N.Ireland was an embarrassment internationally (b) it was very costly to them, in more ways than one. (c) there was a huge financial loss to the province as a result of the troubles eg lost tourism revenue, lost investment etc. Republicans pursued the "armed struggle" thinking that eventually the armed struggle would win.

Turning point of which was caused by the Paras, it is documented that the PIRA membership rose as the dust settled on the evening of Jan 30th 1972 when Civil Rights protests died. The armed struggle defeated the gerrymandering and gave catholics the right to vote.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 10:23PM

Binkie Plebum wrote: »

The republicans did win.

Yeah, they got sunningdale for slow learners. Was it worth them killing the following:
1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
723 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces
Not to mention the huge cost to the economy their "armed struggle" / bombng of financial targets, kidnappings and shootings of industrialists etc cost.

citytillidie · 08-11-2017 10:25PM

maryishere wrote: »

Who are innocent people? McGuinness refused to condemn the murder of the Protestant census collector in Derry. He refused to condemn the murder of the cook who was forced to drive a lorry in to a BA checkpoint, which was then exploded. The same McGuinness who was a hero and good friend of James McClean, according to McClean himself. Most normal people would consider a census collector and a cook innocent victims. Would you consider people rioting / throwing petrol bombs to be innocent victims?

Why pick on a dead man? Unionist have never condemned what the Shankill butchers did

not yet · 08-11-2017 10:26PM

maryishere wrote: »

Who are innocent people? McGuinness refused to condemn the murder of the Protestant census collector in Derry. He refused to condemn the murder of the cook who was forced to drive a lorry in to a BA checkpoint, which was then exploded. The same McGuinness who was a hero and good friend of James McClean, according to McClean himself. Most normal people would consider a census collector and a cook innocent victims. Would you consider people rioting / throwing petrol bombs to be innocent victims?

Most people would consider the victims of the Glenanne innocent, as would they the victims of the Shankill butchers, as would they the Dublin/Monaghan bombings ad infinitum.

not yet · 08-11-2017 10:28PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Why pick on a dead man? Unionist have never condemned what the Shankill butchers did

Why would they when they were involved at the very heart of death squads..

The very Rev William McCrea stood shoulder to shoulder with King Rat..

08-11-2017 10:29PM

not yet wrote: »

Most people would consider the victims of the Glenanne innocent, as would they the victims of the Shankill butchers, as would they the Dublin/Monaghan bombings ad infinitum.

Surely then you should hold the perpertrators of all these murders in the same regard.

maryishere · 08-11-2017 10:30PM

citytillidie wrote: »

and gave catholics the right to vote.

There were a lot of poor protestants who could not vote either.

When there was a referendum on the future of the North in 1973 everyone was allowed to vote and encouraged to vote. The vast majority voted to remain in the UK. No surprise the Poppy has a lot of support in N.I. still.

08-11-2017 10:31PM

maryishere wrote: »

Who are innocent people? McGuinness refused to condemn the murder of the Protestant census collector in Derry. He refused to condemn the murder of the cook who was forced to drive a lorry in to a BA checkpoint, which was then exploded. The same McGuinness who was a hero and good friend of James McClean, according to McClean himself. Most normal people would consider a census collector and a cook innocent victims. Would you consider people rioting / throwing petrol bombs to be innocent victims?

Are you going to wear a poppy this weekend mary?

not yet · 08-11-2017 10:33PM

jh79 wrote: »

Surely then you should hold the perpertrators of all these murders in the same regars.

Same regard as who..

not yet · 08-11-2017 10:34PM

maryishere wrote: »

There were a lot of poor protestants who could not vote either.

When there was a referendum on the future of the North in 1973 everyone was allowed to vote and encouraged to vote. The vast majority voted to remain in the UK. No surprise the Poppy has a lot of support in N.I. still.

You have got to be kidding..

FrancieBrady · 08-11-2017 10:35PM

citytillidie wrote: »

This tells you all about the people behind the poppy

https://twitter.com/crimesofbrits/status/924705788702142464

Quite squirm inducing that. Was that before Hitler was a very naughty boy?

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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