How did Stephen Cluxton "revolutionise the game"?

0byme75341jo28 · 04-11-2017 12:52am #1

The title isn't meant to be inflammatory, genuinely curious. It's just a line that is constantly touted and I can never really tell why, it seems to just be generally accepted by the masses/RTE.

As someone who was born in the 90s, and can only remember watching football from roughly 2006 onwards, I don't know much about "pre-Cluxton" football so can't really tell if he's revolutionised the game, or what he has done to do so.

The usual reasoning is his short kick outs.. were these not used before Cluxton came along? What are so speacial about his kickouts in particular? Is it just his accuracy, his speed of getting them out? A bit of both?

I feel like him being a goalkeeper it's much more difficult to see the impact he's had on the game - with someone like, say, Bernard Brogan or Colm Cooper, it's much easier to see their impact as it is much more obvious - they scores points, goals, makes assists. A kickout is a kickout to a lay person like me as long as it reaches it's target. Could anyone enlighten me?

callaway92 · 04-11-2017 12:54am

They like to portray him as some sort of a Manuel Neuer for GAA

Ash.J.Williams · 04-11-2017 12:55am

Martha Wide Musketeer wrote: »

The title isn't meant to be inflammatory, genuinely curious. It's just a line that is constantly touted and I can never really tell why, it seems to just be generally accepted by the masses/RTE.

As someone who was born in the 90s, and can only remember watching football from roughly 2006 onwards, I don't know much about "pre-Cluxton" football so can't really tell if he's revolutionised the game, or what he has done to do so.

The usual reasoning is his short kick outs.. were these not used before Cluxton came along? What are so speacial about his kickouts in particular? Is it just his accuracy, his speed of getting them out? A bit of both?

I feel like him being a goalkeeper it's much more difficult to see the impact he's had on the game - with someone like, say, Bernard Brogan or Colm Cooper, it's much easier to see their impact as it is much more obvious - they scores points, goals, makes assists. A kickout is a kickout to a lay person like me as long as it reaches it's target. Could anyone enlighten me?

is he the biggest scoring keeper of all time?

0byme75341jo28 · 04-11-2017 1:02am

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Martha Wide Musketeer wrote: »

The title isn't meant to be inflammatory, genuinely curious. It's just a line that is constantly touted and I can never really tell why, it seems to just be generally accepted by the masses/RTE.

As someone who was born in the 90s, and can only remember watching football from roughly 2006 onwards, I don't know much about "pre-Cluxton" football so can't really tell if he's revolutionised the game, or what he has done to do so.

The usual reasoning is his short kick outs.. were these not used before Cluxton came along? What are so speacial about his kickouts in particular? Is it just his accuracy, his speed of getting them out? A bit of both?

I feel like him being a goalkeeper it's much more difficult to see the impact he's had on the game - with someone like, say, Bernard Brogan or Colm Cooper, it's much easier to see their impact as it is much more obvious - they scores points, goals, makes assists. A kickout is a kickout to a lay person like me as long as it reaches it's target. Could anyone enlighten me?

is he the biggest scoring keeper of all time?

To say that "revolutionised the game" is a massive stretch though.. a goalkeeper who is great at long range free kicks is obviously a great asset, but that doesn't really relate to his goalkeeping skills, does it?

LeinsterDub · 04-11-2017 1:03am

Free taking goal keeper and the short kick outs. The recently introduced rule was called by some the Cluxton Rule. It can't recall anyone who this happened too.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/gaa/jarlath-burns-cluxton-rule-374766

AndyBoBandy · 04-11-2017 1:06am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Free taking goal keeper and the short kick outs. The recently introduced rule was called by some the Cluxton Rule. It can't recall anyone who this happened too.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/gaa/jarlath-burns-cluxton-rule-374766

Same as the Nash rule, player discovers a way to maximise his teams advantage, uses it, and forces a rule change

corny · 04-11-2017 1:13am

Colm O'Rourke never shuts up about this and it always irritates me that no one ever challenges his opinion.

Cluxton has always been a brilliant passer of a football but the growing importance of possession and gaining possession from the kick out was happening with or without him.

So yeah master of the art but keepers going short and not hoofing it aimlessly would be the norm now even if Cluxton never played the game.

0byme75341jo28 · 04-11-2017 1:14am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Free taking goal keeper and the short kick outs. The recently introduced rule was called by some the Cluxton Rule. It can't recall anyone who this happened too.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.balls.ie/amp/gaa/jarlath-burns-cluxton-rule-374766

Anthony Nash for one, although obviously he's not a footballer.

Noticed the famous phrase was used (apologetically) in the article, looks like I'm not just imagining it's popularity!

LeinsterDub · 04-11-2017 1:21am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Same as the Nash rule, player discovers a way to maximise his teams advantage, uses it, and forces a rule change

Fair enough. But the Nash rule prevented an occurance that might happen once in a game and isn't a core strategy of the game unlike the kick out and winning the breaking ball is in football.

When I was growing up your goalkeeper was just a shot stopper. Now your goalkeeper is one of the most important players on the pitch

StupidLikeAFox · 04-11-2017 1:26am

Previously kickouts generally consisted of smacking the ball in the general direction of your best fielder, or occassionally a short one to a free man.

Cluxton is very accurate from the kick out whether short, medium or long. The Dublin team also placed a focus on positioning and movement when it came to kickouts which gave them a huge advantage. Basically kickouts went from being a routine way of restarting the game to becoming a key part of a teams game plan, and Cluxton rightly or wrongly got most of the credit for that.

Bonniedog · 04-11-2017 11:16am

The game has changed hugely since 2000. Armagh upped the physical element; Tyrone introduced a much tighter defensive system; Donegal arguably perfected it, almost; and Dublin again increased the intensity levels allied to a strategy in which Cluxton was key. It will change again with another team no doubt.

I had forgotten about the "Nash Rule." I don't like rules being changed because one or other team has established an advantage. Other teams can adapt if good enough rather than lower the bar in the committee room.

Faugheen · 04-11-2017 11:39am

If Cluxton played for Kerry or Mayo, he'd be seen as the best and most rounded goalkeeper to play football.

I've said it before, we as fans don't deserve players like him if we can't appreciate just how good he is because of the jersey he wears.

People will come back saying it's nothing to do with Dublin, but I genuinely can't see how a legitimate argument can be put forward to discredit him.

He didn't 'revolutionise' the game but he has revolutionised the role of the goalkeeper. Someone said earlier kick outs used to be aimed in the direction of the teams best fielder. Cluxton as now made ball-retention a huge priority. It's not just short kick outs either. His ability to find his man no matter the range is exceptional.

He's also an excellent shot-stopper. I don't think people give him enough credit for this. A true, top class keeper are the ones who can pull off a crucial save late in the game when he was barely tested beforehand. Does Cluxton make the odd mistake? Yes, but find me a goalkeeper who doesn't.

Gael85 · 04-11-2017 12:26pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

is he the biggest scoring keeper of all time?

0-66 for Dublin. 0-48 (Championship) 0-18 (League)

castletownman · 04-11-2017 12:56pm

The thing is though, he has indirectly caused managers at club level put misplaced utmost importance in the kick-out, without realising that ultimately maximising your skill-set up front, and maintaining a disciplined defence are both far more important.

People think that it's ONLY Cluxton's kick-outs that have brought success to Dublin, when their defensive unit more less shut out most opponents, and their conversion rate is the best in the game. Yes he is the best in the business at restarts, but the players in front of him are equally important to the system. Put him in a Division Four team and see how revolutionary he is.

If anything, Durcan's restarts were equally as groundbreaking for Donegal. Their system was predicated by him picking out the loose man on the short, or pinging towards Neily Gallagher to either catch clean or flick onto the fellas pushing forward into space, and he mastered it (apart from THAT boo boo in the 2014 final).

Incidentally, I feel Cluxton's presence under a dropping ball has waned considerably over the years. Got caught a couple times vs Kerry last year, and in the Leinster final this year. They are two examples I can remember off the top of my head.

doc_17 · 04-11-2017 5:01pm

Cluxton’s ability to kick accurately, short or long, is a joy to behold. But having managers who then used this asset has seriously improved Dublin. I think he was probably hard done by last night at the All Stars, but in saying that I have no issue with Clarke getting it either as I only saw the Dublin SF and final but I saw most of Mayo’s games.

Dyr · 05-11-2017 4:19pm

Just go back and watch games from the 80s and 90s. Job done

Powerhouse · 05-11-2017 4:24pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

When I was growing up your goalkeeper was just a shot stopper. Now your goalkeeper is one of the most important players on the pitch

And stopping shots wasn't important when you were growing up?

Faugheen · 05-11-2017 4:29pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

And stopping shots wasn't important when you were growing up?

You know exactly what he's trying to say so that post is one of the worst.

Don't be that guy.

Powerhouse · 05-11-2017 4:41pm

Martha Wide Musketeer wrote: »

The title isn't meant to be inflammatory, genuinely curious. It's just a line that is constantly touted and I can never really tell why, it seems to just be generally accepted by the masses/RTE.

As someone who was born in the 90s, and can only remember watching football from roughly 2006 onwards, I don't know much about "pre-Cluxton" football so can't really tell if he's revolutionised the game, or what he has done to do so.

The usual reasoning is his short kick outs.. were these not used before Cluxton came along? What are so speacial about his kickouts in particular? Is it just his accuracy, his speed of getting them out? A bit of both?

I feel like him being a goalkeeper it's much more difficult to see the impact he's had on the game - with someone like, say, Bernard Brogan or Colm Cooper, it's much easier to see their impact as it is much more obvious - they scores points, goals, makes assists. A kickout is a kickout to a lay person like me as long as it reaches it's target. Could anyone enlighten me?

In the old days a kickout was seen as a means of restarting play rather than an opportunity for a team to retain possession. In theory the kickout was a lottery though most teams had very good fielders/primary ball-winners who were celebrated for this feat. Oddly enough this aspect hasn't changed in that, for example, Brian Fenton looks like an old-fashioned midfielder - they were very often the tallest men on the team. The corollary of the 'revolutionisation' of the game with the short kickout is that midfielders should probably become smaller more compact and mobile players but this hasn't happened yet.

Short kickouts were very very rare in the old days not least because every full-forward line played in its position and without realising it they were - in modern parlance - automatically 'pushing up' so that a short kickout was not an option and the potential target of the short kickout was expected to be marking a player at the time anyway The sweeper/extra defender in the modern game has facilitated the really short kickout as there is a player not on marking duties available as a recipient.

As for your questions: "what is it about his kickouts in particular? Is it just his accuracy, his speed of getting them out? A bit of both?" I would say it is indeed both, but let's be honest this was probably conjured up by some Dublin coach we'll never hear about and is rehearsed with mind-numbing repetition. Cluxton's speed and accuracy is helped by the fact that all the moving parts in the kickout strategy do their jobs. It is often interesting to see how frustrated Cluxton gets when kickouts go awry. The reason for this, presumably, is that it means that somebody somewhere isn't doing their job, as practised, at the time.

I think the way Cluxton is considered to have revolutionised the game is that most teams tend to use the short kickout now. What he made popular has caught on. That's the revolution.

Powerhouse · 05-11-2017 4:43pm

Faugheen wrote: »

You know exactly what he's trying to say so that post is one of the worst.

Don't be that guy.

No need for the faux offence. The point is that the goalkeeper was always one of the most important players on the pitch. That has no changed.

Condenser · 06-11-2017 9:34am

Bonniedog wrote: »

The game has changed hugely since 2000. Armagh upped the physical element; Tyrone introduced a much tighter defensive system; Donegal arguably perfected it, almost; and Dublin again increased the intensity levels allied to a strategy in which Cluxton was key. It will change again with another team no doubt.

I had forgotten about the "Nash Rule." I don't like rules being changed because one or other team has established an advantage. Other teams can adapt if good enough rather than lower the bar in the committee room.

The Nash rule wasn't brought in to take away an advantage cork had. It was brought in on a safety issue. Nash was ending up no more than 10m from the defender after his lift and then striking the ball at anything up to 150km an hour. Taking a ball at that distance and speed had the potential for serious injury and allowed a player no time to react. The ball would have hit you as soon as you heard it leave Nashs bos.
It was the correct call.

bruschi · 06-11-2017 10:30am

As much as I highly rate Cluxton (and I do, the best of his generation), his influence and kickouts in particular are hugely over rated. It was far more than just him, and this has been proven time and again. You look at when teams do their best against Dublin, its when they put pressure on Cluxton to kick it long to a contested area. When this happens, his accuracy and decision making has been shown to be very average.

Where he excels is on quick decisions with short to mid range kicks. Dublin have a great tactic that involves up to 8 players at one time to free up one player into space for Cluxton to hit into. The accuracy for this does not need to be excellent, but the decision making does. He has to be sure the pass is on and get it right. More often than not, he does. however my own opinion is that the work and synchronisation of the other players under the countless hours of practice is far more worthy of praise.

So if you were going to say Cluxton revolutionised the game, I'd disagree and say Dublin did. Thats if you really want to go down a route of these short kick outs that were largely in existence in the early noughties with Northern teams and their blanket before it became en vogue for Dublin to get the credit for it.

Drumpot · 06-11-2017 10:40am

Some amount of Sucking lemons Here.... this reminds me if the Monty pythons skit “yeh but what have the romans ever done for us?” Skit...

I believe most people appreciate what he has achieved and brought to the game.. I suppose some people can’t get past their own prejudice to objectively appraise his true impact..

Is at least an all round solid keeper, extremely reliable in big games.. Has the record of most championship games. Scored a winning all Ireland final point in the last kick of the game (Mayo wouldn’t mind any player who could do that let alone a keeper!). Captains his county to multiple all Irelands. Changes the way a keepers role is perceived and how teams tactically use that advantage... sure every year there is huge debate on how a team will deal with Cluxton’s kick outs, why is this discussed if it’s such a non important quality of cluxton?

Yeh but never mind, he’s nothing special !!!!!

LeinsterDub · 06-11-2017 10:46am

Powerhouse wrote: »

And stopping shots wasn't important when you were growing up?

Obliviously it was but now keepers stop shots and do so much more. But I have a feeling you know what I meant and are just being argumentative.

flasher0030 · 06-11-2017 12:04pm

Drumpot wrote: »

Some amount of Sucking lemons Here.... this reminds me if the Monty pythons skit “yeh but what have the romans ever done for us?” Skit...

I believe most people appreciate what he has achieved and brought to the game.. I suppose some people can’t get past their own prejudice to objectively appraise his true impact..

Is at least an all round solid keeper, extremely reliable in big games.. Has the record of most championship games. Scored a winning all Ireland final point in the last kick of the game (Mayo wouldn’t mind any player who could do that let alone a keeper!). Captains his county to multiple all Irelands. Changes the way a keepers role is perceived and how teams tactically use that advantage... sure every year there is huge debate on how a team will deal with Clinton’s kick outs, why is this discussed if it’s such a non important quality of cluxton?

Yeh but never mind, he’s nothing special !!!!!

Get Monica Lewinsky run around starkers to distract him.

danganabu · 06-11-2017 12:49pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

I had forgotten about the "Nash Rule." I don't like rules being changed because one or other team has established an advantage. Other teams can adapt if good enough rather than lower the bar in the committee room.

Ah yeah but calling it the Nash Rule was just lazy analysis, the fact is, as has been pointed out here the games have changed and in hurling the main change is the weight of and the speed at which a sliotar can travel, it would have been folly and indeed wreckless not to change the rule as they did, it really was a no-brainer.

danganabu · 06-11-2017 12:53pm

Drumpot wrote: »

Some amount of Sucking lemons Here.... this reminds me if the Monty pythons skit “yeh but what have the romans ever done for us?” Skit...

I believe most people appreciate what he has achieved and brought to the game.. I suppose some people can’t get past their own prejudice to objectively appraise his true impact..

Is at least an all round solid keeper, extremely reliable in big games.. Has the record of most championship games. Scored a winning all Ireland final point in the last kick of the game (Mayo wouldn’t mind any player who could do that let alone a keeper!). Captains his county to multiple all Irelands. Changes the way a keepers role is perceived and how teams tactically use that advantage... sure every year there is huge debate on how a team will deal with Cluxton’s kick outs, why is this discussed if it’s such a non important quality of cluxton?

Yeh but never mind, he’s nothing special !!!!!

There have been as many posts here praising his influence as there have been questioning it, why always playing the victim??

Oh and the sly dig at Mayo is both childish and reprehensible

blanch152 · 06-11-2017 12:55pm

The thread title says it all.

We are not having a debate about how David Clarke or Brian Kelly revolutionised the game. Why? Because they didn't.

Cluxton is a once-in-a-lifetime player, captaining his team to three All-Irelands in a row, four in all. A goalkeeper scoring the winning point in the All-Ireland victory he didn't captain the team. Wow, just wow.

He doesn't kick the ball over the sideline in the last minute of the All-Ireland final like Clarke did and cost his team a chance to equalise, he doesn't miss the free in injury time to win the All-Ireland like Cillian O'Connor did, he has demonstrated the ability to close out those situations.

Sure, he has had occasional meltdowns or cracks in his technique, but when do they ever make the difference between winning and losing - hardly ever. Much was made of Mayo's success in the first half of the All-Ireland final this year on his kick-outs, but I can't remember the last time they handed out medals at half-time. By the end of the game, Cluxton's kick-out success rate was far superior to Clarke's and he nailed the ones that mattered. The same is seen on the other occasions.

Why do we now have a new rule that kick-outs have to cross the 20m line? Stephen Cluxton.

Why did we have a new rule that kick-outs must travel a certain distance? Stephen Cluxton.

Why did we have the introduction of the mark? Stephen Cluxton.

And despite those rule changes to curtail his influence, Dublin are still favourites to win next year.

Cluxton deserves to be considered in a debate not just about the greatest goalkeeper to play the game, but also about the greatest footballer to play the game. And he is not done yet.

Bonniedog · 06-11-2017 1:19pm

danganabu wrote: »

Ah yeah but calling it the Nash Rule was just lazy analysis, the fact is, as has been pointed out here the games have changed and in hurling the main change is the weight of and the speed at which a sliotar can travel, it would have been folly and indeed wreckless not to change the rule as they did, it really was a no-brainer.

I don't know. A penalty should be a guaranteed score in any sport. Nash did change the system to extent that hurling penalty is now one against one, albeit from further out. Surprising the amount that are missed. Dublin excel at it

danganabu · 06-11-2017 1:22pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't know. A penalty should be a guaranteed score in any sport. Nash did change the system to extent that hurling penalty is now one against one, albeit from further out. Surprising the amount that are missed. Dublin excel at it

Tipp aren't much better at them to be honest!

Bonniedog · 06-11-2017 1:35pm

danganabu wrote: »

Tipp aren't much better at them to be honest!

Bring back Eoin Kelly... or Mick Roche!

danganabu · 06-11-2017 1:39pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Bring back Eoin Kelly... or Mick Roche!

To be fair Kelly for all his brilliance was actually terrible at them, Declan Ryan probably the last good pen taker we had and he used to steal a few yards as well.

flasher0030 · 06-11-2017 1:43pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The thread title says it all.

We are not having a debate about how David Clarke or Brian Kelly revolutionised the game. Why? Because they didn't.

Cluxton is a once-in-a-lifetime player, captaining his team to three All-Irelands in a row, four in all. A goalkeeper scoring the winning point in the All-Ireland victory he didn't captain the team. Wow, just wow.

He doesn't kick the ball over the sideline in the last minute of the All-Ireland final like Clarke did and cost his team a chance to equalise, he doesn't miss the free in injury time to win the All-Ireland like Cillian O'Connor did, he has demonstrated the ability to close out those situations.

Sure, he has had occasional meltdowns or cracks in his technique, but when do they ever make the difference between winning and losing - hardly ever. Much was made of Mayo's success in the first half of the All-Ireland final this year on his kick-outs, but I can't remember the last time they handed out medals at half-time. By the end of the game, Cluxton's kick-out success rate was far superior to Clarke's and he nailed the ones that mattered. The same is seen on the other occasions.

Why do we now have a new rule that kick-outs have to cross the 20m line? Stephen Cluxton.

Why did we have a new rule that kick-outs must travel a certain distance? Stephen Cluxton.

Why did we have the introduction of the mark? Stephen Cluxton.

And despite those rule changes to curtail his influence, Dublin are still favourites to win next year.

Cluxton deserves to be considered in a debate not just about the greatest goalkeeper to play the game, but also about the greatest footballer to play the game. And he is not done yet.

That’s it in a nutshell. Rather than just basing it on opinions, if we consider the hard facts – the impact that one man has on the game of football. How can it be said that he hasn’t changed the way it is played. The main talking point when Dublin come up against any of the top teams is what are the opposition going to do for Cluxton’s kick-outs – press, hold back, kick the ball of the tee etc. Many people just think that kicking the ball sideways to unmarked corner back, big deal. Shure I can do that myself. Completely missing the picture. Cluxton has revolutionised the keeper’s role, which in turn impacts on the entire team. Or in fact, both teams – the opposition as well. Tyrone tried the press for the first 10 minutes of semi-final, but Cluxton had the ability to ping the ball long over the press, resulting in Dublin powering ahead, and Tyrone retreating to Plan B (unfortunately they had no Plan

. Against Mayo couple of years back, he was going short one minute, then hitting Paul Flynn, D Connolly etc. in the half forward the next minute. Kept A O’Shea running around in circles, getting nowhere until he became exhausted and had no impact on the game. His ability to hit the ball high enough to bypass whatever standers are in his way, long enough to reach his target, and accurate enough that the player can just run on to the ball has revolutionised how the game is played. And in a good way in my opinion.

And good point made about the rule changes. If you have the hierarchy in GAA meeting together to bring in rules to counteract one man’s attributes, to try to introduce a leveller playing field, I think that says it all.

I’m from Mayo, but I find it baffling how it’s considered that David Clarke has been ahead of Stephen Cluxton for All-Stars in the past 2 years. I’m delighted for Clarke, but that’s just bias. If Mayo had Cluxton and Dublin had Clarke, I’d be pretty confident that it would be the Green and Red of Mayo belting out of the speakers after the final whistle in the last 2 years. But that is just subjective.

castletownman · 06-11-2017 2:09pm

Sure the only reason Clarke hit that last kick-out over the sideline in the last minute, was because all of Mayo's outfielders and "out-balls" were unceremoniously dragged down by their respective Dublin markers in the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September. Hard to find a target then

Bonniedog · 06-11-2017 2:42pm

castletownman wrote: »

Sure the only reason Clarke hit that last kick-out over the sideline in the last minute, was because all of Mayo's outfielders and "out-balls" were unceremoniously dragged down by their respective Dublin markers in the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September. Hard to find a target then

flasher0030 · 06-11-2017 2:45pm

castletownman wrote: »

Sure the only reason Clarke hit that last kick-out over the sideline in the last minute, was because all of Mayo's outfielders and "out-balls" were unceremoniously dragged down by their respective Dublin markers in the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September. Hard to find a target then

Not sure if you're writing that comment tongue in cheek, but if you are serious, its a bit dramatic. It's hardly like Clarke saw couple of Mayo defenders in wrestling match and decided "Oh heck, I'll just kick it over the sideline".

I would have loved if ref had the b@lls to black card the 3 Dublin players, but I don't think any ref would. Would be putting themselves in the direct line of media scrutiny. He gave the card to Kilkenny, so he had made his token "dealt-with" gesture. Would have been fun for the next play anyway - 14 against 11, to see if Mayo could conjure up a score. Anyway, ifs buts and maybes.

Dyr · 06-11-2017 2:45pm

castletownman wrote: »

Sure the only reason Clarke hit that last kick-out over the sideline in the last minute, was because all of Mayo's outfielders and "out-balls" were unceremoniously dragged down by their respective Dublin markers in the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September. Hard to find a target then

So you didn't watch the match then? There was no one dragged down when Clarke ballooned that kick over the line, and he had men free on the other side

In fact, on all his dire kick outs in extra time the only mayo player who was dragged down was leeroy in retaliation for "the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September".

Clarke **** himself, plain and simple.

danganabu · 06-11-2017 2:49pm

Bambi wrote: »

So you didn't watch the match then? There was no one dragged down when Clarke ballooned that kick over the line, and he had men free on the other side.

While Castletown was slightly over the top and dramatic in his claim, the bolded statement is completely false. So you didnt watch the match either I gather

Slattsy · 06-11-2017 2:56pm

Bambi wrote: »

So you didn't watch the match then? There was no one dragged down when Clarke ballooned that kick over the line, and he had men free on the other side

In fact, on all his dire kick outs in extra time the only mayo player who was dragged down was leeroy in retaliation for "the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September".

Clarke **** himself, plain and simple.

Apparently, you can still get the smell in Croker.

Jaden · 06-11-2017 3:00pm

castletownman wrote: »

Sure the only reason Clarke hit that last kick-out over the sideline in the last minute, was because all of Mayo's outfielders and "out-balls" were unceremoniously dragged down by their respective Dublin markers in the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September. Hard to find a target then

This is, quite simply, a complete fabrication. Footage shows nothing of the sort happened. Anyone who thinks otherwise, needs to (re)watch the last few minutes of the game (youtube is your friend here).

73:00 - Dermo takes a pot shot that goes a mile wide.
Both Dublin and Mayo make a substitution.

74:20 - Clarke's Kickout goes straight to Dublin who work it to Connolly, who is taken down.
Mayo make two more substitutions.

76:02 - Dean points the free, despite having a GPS tracker thrown by Keegan, in an attempt to put him off.

76:12 - Clarke restarts. Play is blown up for a tussle between Keegan and Kilkenny. Everyone else is on their feet.
Kilkenny is Black Carded to make it 14 Vs 13.

77:10 - Clarke restarts again. Everyone is still on their feet. Ball goes straight out of play.
Mayo don't touch the ball again for the rest of the game.

78:54 - Game is blown up, just as Brogan appears to be about to get through for a 1:1 with Clarke.

Dyr · 06-11-2017 3:05pm

danganabu wrote: »

While Castletown was slightly over the top and dramatic in his claim, the bolded statement is completely false. So you didnt watch the match either I gather

You don't say?

5 mayo players inside the 45 to two Dublin lads who aren't even near their men let alone dragging, and he sends into the crowd

Dyr · 06-11-2017 3:08pm

that image is so big because some people obviously have problems with their eyesight

bruschi · 06-11-2017 3:11pm

imagine, the thread already descending into another Mayo/Dublin farce.

Bonniedog · 06-11-2017 3:14pm

castletownman wrote: »

Sure the only reason Clarke hit that last kick-out over the sideline in the last minute, was because all of Mayo's outfielders and "out-balls" were unceremoniously dragged down by their respective Dublin markers in the most unashamedly unsporting and cynical act ever seen in September. Hard to find a target then

More unsporting than throwing something at a player taking a free? Or did you miss that?

Jaden · 06-11-2017 3:15pm

Bambi wrote: »

that image is so big because some people obviously have problems with their eyesight

No no no. The Dublin Meeja replaced the live video feed with a doctored version to hide the TRUTH of what happened.

They have the technology - developed at the cost of millions of Euro, diverted from development funds to a shady company operating out of DCU.....

Honestly, I don't even know how this fabrication got any traction at all, and yet it is quoted as Gospel in places.

bucketybuck · 06-11-2017 3:26pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

The corollary of the 'revolutionisation' of the game with the short kickout is that midfielders should probably become smaller more compact and mobile players but this hasn't happened yet.

I think it has, there are now very few teams that can carry the big, lumbering midfielder in there for his aerial prowess. They can still be tall, but if they aren't also very athletic then they are in big, big trouble.

castletownman · 06-11-2017 3:39pm

I was being sarcastic lads.

Didn't mean to descend the thread into a Mayo/Dublin debate, and I apologise for doing so. Very touchy subject

Anyway back on track, while I outlined my opinion on it earlier, I would echo a previous posters contention that it was DUBLIN itself rather than Cluxton individually that revolutionised the game.

blanch152 · 06-11-2017 3:43pm

castletownman wrote: »

I was being sarcastic lads.

Didn't mean to descend the thread into a Mayo/Dublin debate, and I apologise for doing so. Very touchy subject

Anyway back on track, while I outlined my opinion on it earlier, I would echo a previous posters contention that it was DUBLIN itself rather than Cluxton individually that revolutionised the game.

If it was DUBLIN itself that revolutionised the game, how come all the other counties haven't been able to replicate it and beat them? Answer: because they don't have another Stephen Cluxton.

At the end of the day, it was Cluxton's ability that revolutionised the game, the team took advantage of that.

Jaden · 06-11-2017 3:46pm

castletownman wrote: »

I was being sarcastic lads. Didn't mean to descend the thread into a Mayo/Dublin debate, and I apologise for doing so. Very touchy subject

Awwww. /puts away pitchfork and flaming torch.

castletownman wrote: »

I was being sarcastic lads.
Anyway back on track, while I outlined my opinion on it earlier, I would echo a previous posters contention that it was DUBLIN itself rather than Cluxton individually that revolutionised the game.

Bang on. However, I would add that while it is the team that wins, Cluxton is more often than not, the one pulling the strings.

danganabu · 06-11-2017 3:50pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If it was DUBLIN itself that revolutionised the game, how come all the other counties haven't been able to replicate it and beat them? Answer: because they don't have another Stephen Cluxton.

At the end of the day, it was Cluxton's ability that revolutionised the game, the team took advantage of that.

Hi Stephen nice to meet you!

Cluxton has been in goals for Dublin for 16 seasons, Dublin have won 5 of those so the claim that no one has been able to beat them is a little disingenuous wouldn't you say?

castletownman · 06-11-2017 3:51pm

blanch152 wrote: »

If it was DUBLIN itself that revolutionised the game, how come all the other counties haven't been able to replicate it and beat them? Answer: because they don't have another Stephen Cluxton.

At the end of the day, it was Cluxton's ability that revolutionised the game, the team took advantage of that.

Well I would argue that Dublin have a once in a generation panel of players too now. Hardly just Cluxton. I mean the graphic shown after the Tyrone game of the forwards that didn't start the semi shows their strength in depth.

I argued earlier that Durcan's kickouts were equally as effective and key to Donegal's system. And incidentally they shut down Cluxton in 2014, the last time Dublin lost in championship. So there's one example of it being beatable. I admit that it's harder to come up with other examples as they have generally swatted away all comers in the last three years (when the importance of his restarts are hardly that important when they are exceeding the handicap spread at the other end).

Now I get Cluxton is an icon of Dublin GAA, and is undoubtedly one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time, but lord some of the fawning over him is overboard.

How did Stephen Cluxton "revolutionise the game"?

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