National Duty of Egyptians!

Gerrup Outta Dat! · 03-11-2017 02:48PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Absolute scutter

Israel is the ONLY true democracy in the middle east.

Just like Hitler was the only democratic leader in 1940’s Europe :rolleyes:

dav3 · 03-11-2017 02:48PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

Absolute scutter

Israel is the ONLY true democracy in the middle east.

Nobody really cares. Most people around the world see israel as a bit of a sh*thole tbf.

gitzy16v · 03-11-2017 02:49PM

HonalD wrote: »

Sex outside marriage. I seem to remember that being a “sin” in good old Catholic Ireland.

I’m not defending what that guy said, far from it, but to think that his comments are indicative of the prevailing view of all Egyptians is moronic and at best I’ll-informed.

Nobody has said its the prevailing view of ALL Egyptians,so whatever point this is trying to make is..hhmmm...pointless!

Remind where in good old catholic Ireland that somebody was jailed for daring to speak about sex outside marriage never mind actually doing it.

Shurimgreat · 03-11-2017 03:09PM

HonalD wrote: »

Sex outside marriage. I seem to remember that being a “sin” in good old Catholic Ireland.

I’m not defending what that guy said, far from it, but to think that his comments are indicative of the prevailing view of all Egyptians is moronic and at best I’ll-informed.

FFS.
In a recent poll in Egypt, 83% of women said they were sexually assaulted.

And 53% of men said sexually assaulted women probably deserved it.

And like I said, Egypt is considered more tolerant that the rest of the Islamic World.

Therefore his views would be considered prevalent across the Islamic World (I didn't say everyone in Egypt, however going on that poll alone, there is considerable sympathy for his views).

As for sex outside marriage considered a "sin" in Catholic Ireland, do you understand the difference between a sin and being sent to prison for a crime? The crime of merely talking about sex outside marriage.

HonalD · 03-11-2017 04:45PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

Sex outside marriage. I seem to remember that being a “sin” in good old Catholic Ireland.

I’m not defending what that guy said, far from it, but to think that his comments are indicative of the prevailing view of all Egyptians is moronic and at best I’ll-informed.

FFS.
In a recent poll in Egypt, 83% of women said they were sexually assaulted.

And 53% of men said sexually assaulted women probably deserved it.

And like I said, Egypt is considered more tolerant that the rest of the Islamic World.

Therefore his views would be considered prevalent across the Islamic World (I didn't say everyone in Egypt, however going on that poll alone, there is considerable sympathy for his views).

As for sex outside marriage considered a "sin" in Catholic Ireland, do you understand the difference between a sin and being sent to prison for a crime? The crime of merely talking about sex outside marriage.

Sorry silly me, I forgot I was posting in AH and anyone can post any old nonsense without justification and it’s to be accepted as fact.

1. The 2008 poll is now a “recent poll”, still no source or statistical background to this poll. Seriously?
2. How can you say his views are “considered prevalent across the Islamic world” (wherever that is?) [ooops we’re in AH so one can say any old sh1t and suggest that it’s factual]
3. Do you think I’m completely stupid? My sin analogy was in reference to the comment about 10th century societal issues belonging to countries like Egypt.

But back to the original comment I made is, if anyone has experience of living or working in Egypt, feel free to offer opinions. Anyone basing their opinions on stereotypes and media reports should research the authenticity and objectivity of their “facts”. After all, I’d hate to think people are as stupid as Master Trump when it comes to understanding the culture of countries in the GCC and MENA region.

HonalD · 03-11-2017 04:50PM

Odhinn wrote: »

Hector Savage wrote: »

Absolute scutter

Israel is the ONLY true democracy in the middle east.

You can't occupy millions of people, deprive them of a vote and claim to be a democracy.

Well, if you can support two international leaders who attended a state dinner celebrating the Balfour Declaration of 1917 then you can believe in anything.

Shurimgreat · 03-11-2017 05:13PM

HonalD wrote: »

Sorry silly me, I forgot I was posting in AH and anyone can post any old nonsense without justification and it’s to be accepted as fact.

1. The 2008 poll is now a “recent poll”, still no source or statistical background to this poll. Seriously?
2. How can you say his views are “considered prevalent across the Islamic world” (wherever that is?) [ooops we’re in AH so one can say any old sh1t and suggest that it’s factual]
3. Do you think I’m completely stupid? My sin analogy was in reference to the comment about 10th century societal issues belonging to countries like Egypt.

But back to the original comment I made is, if anyone has experience of living or working in Egypt, feel free to offer opinions. Anyone basing their opinions on stereotypes and media reports should research the authenticity and objectivity of their “facts”. After all, I’d hate to think people are as stupid as Master Trump when it comes to understanding the culture of countries in the GCC and MENA region.

I tell you what. While I go look for the poll, here's some reading for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Egypt

Edit: The poll is referred to in the wiki article.

Violence against women[edit]
Further information: Mass sexual assault in Egypt
Sexual violence[edit]
In a 2010 survey of 1,010 women by the Egyptian Center for Women's rights, 98% of foreign women and 83% of native women said they had been sexually harassed in Egypt and two-thirds of men said that they had harassed women.[23][24] Women who wore conservative attire, an Islamic headscarf or niqab, were also targeted.[25] In 2013, the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women reported that 99.3% of Egyptian women had experienced some form of harassment.[26] Human Rights Watch reported 91 sexual assaults in four days from 30 June 2013 during the Tahrir Square protests, as well as 19 cases of mob sexual assaults in January.[27] The deputy Middle East director at HRW said that the attacks were "holding women back from participating fully in the public life of Egypt at a critical point in the country's development."[27] On June 4, 2013, a law criminalizing sexual harassment for the first time in modern Egyptian history was approved by then interim president, Adly Mansour.[28]
Honor killings[edit]
Honor killings take place in Egypt relatively frequently, due to reasons such as a woman meeting an unrelated man, even if this is only an allegation; or adultery (real or suspected).

HonalD · 03-11-2017 05:21PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I tell you what. While I go look for the poll, here's some reading for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Egypt

Oh yippee Wikipedia, that bastion of authenticity and objectivity. Again, seriously?
Feel free to ignore justifying your Across the Islamic world stereotypical comment.

For clarity, I’m not condoning or supporting his views and I’m not saying they are unique in the region. I’m just calling out the various ill informed commentary on a specific culture that is being spouted out through ignorance.

HonalD · 03-11-2017 05:33PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

Sorry silly me, I forgot I was posting in AH and anyone can post any old nonsense without justification and it’s to be accepted as fact.

1. The 2008 poll is now a “recent poll”, still no source or statistical background to this poll. Seriously?
2. How can you say his views are “considered prevalent across the Islamic world” (wherever that is?) [ooops we’re in AH so one can say any old sh1t and suggest that it’s factual]
3. Do you think I’m completely stupid? My sin analogy was in reference to the comment about 10th century societal issues belonging to countries like Egypt.

But back to the original comment I made is, if anyone has experience of living or working in Egypt, feel free to offer opinions. Anyone basing their opinions on stereotypes and media reports should research the authenticity and objectivity of their “facts”. After all, I’d hate to think people are as stupid as Master Trump when it comes to understanding the culture of countries in the GCC and MENA region.

I tell you what. While I go look for the poll, here's some reading for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Egypt

Edit: The poll is referred to in the wiki article.

Violence against women[edit]
Further information: Mass sexual assault in Egypt
Sexual violence[edit]
In a 2010 survey of 1,010 women by the Egyptian Center for Women's rights, 98% of foreign women and 83% of native women said they had been sexually harassed in Egypt and two-thirds of men said that they had harassed women.[23][24] Women who wore conservative attire, an Islamic headscarf or niqab, were also targeted.[25] In 2013, the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women reported that 99.3% of Egyptian women had experienced some form of harassment.[26] Human Rights Watch reported 91 sexual assaults in four days from 30 June 2013 during the Tahrir Square protests, as well as 19 cases of mob sexual assaults in January.[27] The deputy Middle East director at HRW said that the attacks were "holding women back from participating fully in the public life of Egypt at a critical point in the country's development."[27] On June 4, 2013, a law criminalizing sexual harassment for the first time in modern Egyptian history was approved by then interim president, Adly Mansour.[28]
Honor killings[edit]
Honor killings take place in Egypt relatively frequently, due to reasons such as a woman meeting an unrelated man, even if this is only an allegation; or adultery (real or suspected).

So if there is 100 million people in Egypt and you want to throw around a poll of 1,000 women undertaken by a Women’s Rights Group that’s a sample size of 0.001% and you expect this to be accepted as a good foundation to put forward an factual argument?

And looking at the Wikipedia UN figures, the 99.3% of women statistics looks remarkably like the historical vote for Sadam Hussain in Iraq during his democratic presidential elections.

Shurimgreat · 03-11-2017 05:58PM

HonalD wrote: »

Oh yippee Wikipedia, that bastion of authenticity and objectivity. Again, seriously?
Feel free to ignore justifying your Across the Islamic world stereotypical comment.

For clarity, I’m not condoning or supporting his views and I’m not saying they are unique in the region. I’m just calling out the various ill informed commentary on a specific culture that is being spouted out through ignorance.

The Wiki article gives its references at the foot of the page for you to check.
Are you Egyptian by the way? Its probably important for you to declare a bias here.

HonalD · 03-11-2017 06:07PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Are you Egyptian by the way? Its probably important for you to declare a bias here.

Why would you think that? What would anyone’s nationality have to do with pointing out that the commentary in this thread is deeply flawed?

I’m not Egyptian, but even if I was, how could you infer that I am biased? I’m trying to point out the bias in the commentary and in particular the poor use of statistics in your argument.

Next you’ll what’s my religion, I suppose.

Roger Hassenforder · 03-11-2017 08:39PM

HonalD wrote: »

Sorry silly me, I forgot I was posting in AH and anyone can post any old nonsense without justification and it’s to be accepted as fact.

1. The 2008 poll is now a “recent poll”, still no source or statistical background to this poll. Seriously?
2. How can you say his views are “considered prevalent across the Islamic world” (wherever that is?) [ooops we’re in AH so one can say any old sh1t and suggest that it’s factual]
3. Do you think I’m completely stupid? My sin analogy was in reference to the comment about 10th century societal issues belonging to countries like Egypt.

But back to the original comment I made is, if anyone has experience of living or working in Egypt, feel free to offer opinions. Anyone basing their opinions on stereotypes and media reports should research the authenticity and objectivity of their “facts”. After all, I’d hate to think people are as stupid as Master Trump when it comes to understanding the culture of countries in the GCC and MENA region.

HonalD wrote: »

I’m trying to point out the bias in the commentary and in particular the poor use of statistics in your argument.

Am I expecting too much by expecting you to dismiss his stats and survey, with stats and surveys of you own to support your argument?
Maybe I don't get how this works....

HonalD · 04-11-2017 05:23AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

Am I expecting too much by expecting you to dismiss his stats and survey, with stats and surveys of you own to support your argument? Maybe I don't get how this works....

I don't want an argument, I'm just pointing out that when posters want to generalise against a group of people or culture, with limited understanding and experience of the subject, coupled with spurious statistics and then when pulled up on their generalised comments, simply ignore the suggested rebuttal then I'm calling it out as such.

The fact that my nationality is somehow relevant is bizarre but as I've said before, it's AH after all, so if you want to post bull and want to believe the bull that is posted then fire away.

Roger Hassenforder · 04-11-2017 03:40PM

HonalD wrote: »

I don't want an argument, I'm just pointing out that when posters want to generalise against a group of people or culture, with limited understanding and experience of the subject, coupled with spurious statistics and then when pulled up on their generalised comments, simply ignore the suggested rebuttal then I'm calling it out as such.

The fact that my nationality is somehow relevant is bizarre but as I've said before, it's AH after all, so if you want to post bull and want to believe the bull that is posted then fire away.

Your nationality and religious is irrelevant,. Insofar as it's not informing your bias (if any) in turn. But if you're dismissing someone's argument as nonsense you really need to back up your claim, rather than "you're wrong, just because"

HonalD · 04-11-2017 05:16PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

I don't want an argument, I'm just pointing out that when posters want to generalise against a group of people or culture, with limited understanding and experience of the subject, coupled with spurious statistics and then when pulled up on their generalised comments, simply ignore the suggested rebuttal then I'm calling it out as such.

The fact that my nationality is somehow relevant is bizarre but as I've said before, it's AH after all, so if you want to post bull and want to believe the bull that is posted then fire away.

Your nationality and religious is irrelevant,. Insofar as it's not informing your bias (if any) in turn. But if you're dismissing someone's argument as nonsense you really need to back up your claim, rather than "you're wrong, just because"

I’ve called out the following comments, from various posters, as being misinformed and without factual basis:

“Completely messed up society”
“Muhammad........raped lots of women”
“Only true democracy in the Middle East”
“His views would be considered prevalent across the Islamic world”.

All are opinions, true. But I asked who had actually lived or worked in Egypt to be able to form such strong opinions and post them as facts. Silence.

Again, I’m not making any clams, I’m just questioning what others have posted......and then promptly disappeared from the thread.

Ulysses Gaze · 04-11-2017 05:34PM

HonalD wrote: »

So if there is 100 million people in Egypt and you want to throw around a poll of 1,000 women undertaken by a Women’s Rights Group that’s a sample size of 0.001% and you expect this to be accepted as a good foundation to put forward an factual argument?

And looking at the Wikipedia UN figures, the 99.3% of women statistics looks remarkably like the historical vote for Sadam Hussain in Iraq during his democratic presidential elections.

You don't know how basic statistical surveys work...do you?

For the sake of argument let's say 50% of the population of Egypt are women. That would be 50 million

On a survey of that demographic, to get results to a confidence level of 95% with a confidence interval of 3% (the whole +/-3% range the results could statistically fall under) you would need a sample size of 1069.

If you wanted to get a confidence level of 99% with a confidence interval of 3% it would be a sample size of 1800 roughly.

HonalD · 04-11-2017 06:40PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

So if there is 100 million people in Egypt and you want to throw around a poll of 1,000 women undertaken by a Women’s Rights Group that’s a sample size of 0.001% and you expect this to be accepted as a good foundation to put forward an factual argument?

And looking at the Wikipedia UN figures, the 99.3% of women statistics looks remarkably like the historical vote for Sadam Hussain in Iraq during his democratic presidential elections.

You don't know how basic statistical surveys work...do you?

For the sake of argument let's say 50% of the population of Egypt are women. That would be 50 million

On a survey of that demographic, to get results to a confidence level of 95% with a confidence interval of 3% (the whole +/-3% range the results could statistically fall under) you would need a sample size of 1069.

If you wanted to get a confidence level of 99% with a confidence interval of 3% it would be a sample size of 1800 roughly.

I’ve researched the poll and how it’s claimed it was conducted. It doesn’t inspire confidence in the impartiality of it. And I know a bit about statistics thanks.

I’m not denying Egypt has a problem, I’m complaining about the quality of “evidence” taken from Wikipedia.

splinter65 · 04-11-2017 06:51PM

Odhinn wrote: »

That's what I say when Cora Sherlock and co get on the news, but there we are.

Besides, the cynical might observe that he's piossibly a draw to viewers, given his last showing

Did Cora Sherlock advise people to sexually harass and rape?
Where ? When?
Is there even the remotest chance that you are going to condemn this man for encouraging such violence?
Because be honest if he was a white straight Christian male you’d be all over this like flies on ****e.

gozunda · 04-11-2017 09:31PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I love the bit about the cleric rushing at him and him belting him with his shoe during a TV debate though.

Vincent Brown would have been gas if Cora Sherlock and Ivana Bacik took a similar tack.

Here's is the video of yer man attacking the moderate cleric for daring to suggest he was wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7afZt5DZ5k

Source" http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/watch-shoe-beating-fight-over-headscarf-rules-erupts-live-egypt-tv-659838454

yabbav · 04-11-2017 09:49PM

Anyone actually read the Koran? I did read the infidels guide to the koran

yabbav · 04-11-2017 09:51PM

HonalD wrote: »

I’ve called out the following comments, from various posters, as being misinformed and without factual basis:

“Completely messed up society”
“Muhammad........raped lots of women”
“Only true democracy in the Middle East”
“His views would be considered prevalent across the Islamic world”.

All are opinions, true. But I asked who had actually lived or worked in Egypt to be able to form such strong opinions and post them as facts. Silence.

Again, I’m not making any clams, I’m just questioning what others have posted......and then promptly disappeared from the thread.

I worked in the sand pit aka Saudi and have been to Egypt. I would not return to either.

wakka12 · 04-11-2017 11:39PM

HonalD wrote: »

Sex outside marriage. I seem to remember that being a “sin” in good old Catholic Ireland.

I’m not defending what that guy said, far from it, but to think that his comments are indicative of the prevailing view of all Egyptians is moronic and at best I’ll-informed.

Yes and we are no longer that same ireland. We progressed socially, as egypt clearly has not

wakka12 · 04-11-2017 11:43PM

HonalD wrote: »

Oh yippee Wikipedia, that bastion of authenticity and objectivity. Again, seriously?
Feel free to ignore justifying your Across the Islamic world stereotypical comment.

For clarity, I’m not condoning or supporting his views and I’m not saying they are unique in the region. I’m just calling out the various ill informed commentary on a specific culture that is being spouted out through ignorance.

What exactly are you basing your views of egypt on then?
To not recognise the clearly massive issues egypt has with womens rights is quite frankly offensive to the millions of women who live as second class citizens in their own country there

MadYaker · 04-11-2017 11:52PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Yes and we are no longer that same ireland. We progressed socially, as egypt clearly has not

Yet our laws on abortion horrify most logical people from other first world nations and less than 60 years ago institutions run by the catholic church (who basically controlled the country) burried dead women and their babies en masse in a septic tank covered in human sh!t. Yes indeed, what a shining star of progression our nation is.

I'm not saying were like Egypt, we aren't. But what the OP has done is something that happens all too often these days. Picking an example from an extreme fringe and holding up as an example of what every person from that country / religion thinks. The prenouncements of this person were condemned in Egypt yet people here are all too happy to exept this as a genuine representation of what all muslims / egyptians think when it just isn't.

wakka12 · 05-11-2017 12:03AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Yet our laws on abortion horrify most logical people from other first world nations and less than 60 years ago institutions run by the catholic church (who basically controlled the country) burried dead women and their babies en masse in a septic tank covered in human sh!t. Yes indeed, what a shining star of progression our nation is.

I'm not saying were like Egypt, we aren't. But what the OP has done is something that happens all too often these days. Picking an example from an extreme fringe and holding up as an example of what every person from that country / religion thinks. The prenouncements of this person were condemned in Egypt yet people here are all too happy to exept this as a genuine representation of what all muslims / egyptians think when it just isn't.

Yeh grand.Tell your wife and daughter youre heading to egypt tomorrow and leaving ireland and see how their life turns out there
Not everyone thinks the majority of egyptians have opinions like the man in the article. But they are a lesser extreme. Just like another poster said, katie hopkins and donald trump are extremes of our society, but they are nothing as extreme as this man. He is an extreme of a much more extreme society than ours

I also cant wait for the abortion referendum to pass with fling colours, as it inveitably will, as we live in society that respects women, so that users can in no way again even slightly compare our treatment of women to medieval hellholes like that.

HonalD · 05-11-2017 03:30PM

yabbav wrote: »

HonalD wrote: »

I’ve called out the following comments, from various posters, as being misinformed and without factual basis:

“Completely messed up society”
“Muhammad........raped lots of women”
“Only true democracy in the Middle East”
“His views would be considered prevalent across the Islamic world”.

All are opinions, true. But I asked who had actually lived or worked in Egypt to be able to form such strong opinions and post them as facts. Silence.

Again, I’m not making any clams, I’m just questioning what others have posted......and then promptly disappeared from the thread.

I worked in the sand pit aka Saudi and have been to Egypt. I would not return to either.

Well at least you’re better placed to comment on the situation. I’m going to retreat now.

AlekSmart · 06-11-2017 08:02PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Yes and we are no longer that same Ireland. We progressed socially,as Egypt clearly has not

It is indeed very true that Ireland has progressed Socially,and at some speed too.

However,it has to be borne in mind,that not all Irish share that progressive zeal.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/228974-shouldnt-irish-government-intervene-case-ibrahim-halawa-641.html

Post#6403

Heroically brave Norwegian-Syrian lesbian Sara Azmeh Rasmussen travels to Ireland and protests outside the Clonskeagh mosque, June-July 2011, because it is the headquarters of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, which supports the death penalty for homosexuality.

From VG (Norwegian newspaper), articles of June-July 2011 (see links below).
It seems this was only covered in the Norwegian media. I did not hear about this in the Irish media at all! I heard about it through an anonymous Internet tip off from Norway. (Thanks!)

See 30 June 2011 article (and translate). Formerly here (and translate).
See 2 July 2011 article (and translate). Formerly here (and translate)
Rasmussen (of course) got threatened: "A mob gathered around me. They tore my sign from me, called me a pig, spat on me and threatened me ... A man threatened me. He said that of course I should be killed. Then he repeated it three times with pressure on the word kill."
"Here in Dublin, many .. told me how sinful and unclean I am. Some have said that I must be sent by the Jews and Zionists. The woman who asked me to leave [said] that if I was born like this, there must be a punishment for the sins that my parents have done. ... It is precisely this attitude that creates the violent prejudices against gays in Muslim communities."
"General Secretary of Fatwa Council, Sheikh Hussein Halawa, agreed to meet Rasmussen on Tuesday, and told her that she was suffering from a disease".
"In the meeting with General Secretary of Fatwa Council on Tuesday, Rasmussen was told that she was suffering from a disease. ... For those who have a disease, I will not ask for the death penalty, said Sheikh Hussein Halawa to Rasmussen. The Secretary-General, who stressed that he only gave his own view on the matter, explained that the question of the death penalty for gays was difficult. He believes that homosexuality should be divided into three categories: those who are born so, those who have chosen it, and those who try to convert others to be gays. [He said that] for those who want to push others to be gays, Sharia [requires] the death penalty."

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Futenriks%2Ftro-og-livssyn%2Fnorsk-aktivist-maatte-avbryte-homoprotest%2Fa%2F10088293%2F

"But today, a lady in a long black veil and a man came to me and demanded that I left my way. They said they were parent representatives of the Islamic school in the same area, and that it was obscene of me to sit there with such a sign, Rasmussen says to VG Nett.

"They said the children could read the sign and find out to ask the parents what was there and that no parents would explain to their children what such immorality was."

Imam Halawa was less circumspect in addressing Ms Rasmussens points..

In meeting with the Secretary-General of the Fatwa Council on Tuesday, Rasmussen was informed that she was suffering from a disease.

- If you tell me you are born like that, I will sympathize with you and send you to a doctor. For those who have a disease, I will not ask for death penalty, Sheikh Hussein Halawa says to Rasmussen.

The Secretary-General, who stressed that he only gave his own view on the matter, explained that the issue of the death penalty for gays was difficult.

He believes that gay must be divided into three categories: those who are born so, those who have chosen it themselves, and those who try to convert others to becoming gay.

"But for those who want to push others to become gay, Sharia says it's a death penalty. By claiming recognition for your lifestyle, you push others. Your attitude can not be accepted, he says to Rasmussen.

Six years ago,Ms Rasmussen was told her written requests might take several years to answer....as we now know,events can unfold,but even so,she surely should have had a definitive resonse by now ?

The recent developments in Irish/Egyptian relationships and the protagonists involved,have tended to mask some far deeper,and perhaps less savoury issues which could perhaps benefit from a deal of broader debate.

It may be 6 years ago,but the story of Sara Azmeh Rasmussen,and her interaction with Irish Islam does bring with it,a certain realization that modern Ireland has made it's stand,on many heretofore taboo issues.

The $64,000 question being,how far are we willing to regress in order to avoid upsetting those less forward thinking than ourselves ??

Odhinn · 06-11-2017 09:09PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

,............

The $64,000 question being,how far are we willing to regress in order to avoid upsetting those less forward thinking than ourselves ??

So you're saying that we'll roll back gay marriage and gay rights to keep the conservative muslims. That's a good one.

Yakult · 06-11-2017 09:16PM

grahambo wrote: »

And people think multiculturalism will work...

We are so inherently different, in our values and what we believe, that it will never work.

Have to agree.

Not saying western values are that of a high standard, but our society of fashion outshining morality clashes massively with the values they have over there.

I'm sure a high percentage of people around the world are more than capable of working together in a multicultural paradise, but you will always have a small number to try and **** that up.

AlekSmart · 06-11-2017 09:19PM

Odhinn wrote: »

So you're saying that we'll roll back gay marriage and gay rights to keep the conservative muslims. That's a good one.

I'm saying nothing of the sort :eek:

A "good one" it may well be,but it is a debate which is rarely engaged in at the moment ?

National Duty of Egyptians!

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