Theresa May to honour Irish republican Countess Markievicz

OldMrBrennan83 · 28-10-2017 05:32PM

This post has been deleted.

Zebra3 · 28-10-2017 05:40PM

elperello wrote: »

I was more thinking about the reaction of the present day London Met Police who guard the Palace of Westminster.

But seeing as you ask.

Just picture your average Dublin policeman out and about on that fateful day.
He's watching out for overloaded carts, beggars, or maybe young scallywags stealing bulls eyes from a sweet shop.
Suddenly someone rushes up and plugs him shouting War or whatever.
There he is, gone for all eternity and the other side get redemption and commemoration.

That's the beauty of history it's multi-faceted.

I had no idea London was under occupation today.

The Backwards Man · 28-10-2017 05:40PM

Dublin or London, Wittenberg or Rome, never seen a crying shower of hoors that deserved each other more.

28-10-2017 05:42PM

Jawgap wrote: »

In 1916?

How do you think he'd have managed that and just how long would they have taken to arrive.....and if there was such a cadre of armed men available how come it took the authorities and the Brits so long to organise a response to any of the occupied sites around the city?

.....never mind that Malin's command numbered over 100 and was well on its way to digging in - you really think a single unarmed police officer could have whistled up 300 armed men (assuming the usual ratio of 3:1 was required to dislodge an entrenched adversary?)

Also the nature of his injuries - one bullet passed through both lungs and his left arm - suggests more a bushwhacking than a confrontation (as some accounts suggest there was).....sounds like she had the jump on him but was unwilling to take him prisoner.....since she ran back to the rest of the garrison shouting trimuphantly (in the words of one witness) "I got him" before accpeting the congratualtions of others.

Although at that point its unclear if she knew whether she left Lahiff for dead, or thought she had just wounded him.

But what's the source for all this? One diary page written over a year after the event iirc. With quite a few holes in the story if you look through it which has been done, repeatedly, especially last year.

elperello · 28-10-2017 05:43PM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Who are my lot?
What murderers?
Whose throats?
Which sport?
Just what do you mean?

So many questions.

Anyhow to carry on.
I wasn't condemning anyone just having a civilised discussion.

elperello · 28-10-2017 05:46PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

I had no idea London was under occupation today.

You may have missed some of the discussion.
The proposed commemoration which is the subject of this thread is to take place in London.

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 05:48PM

riffmongous wrote: »

But what's the source for all this? One diary page written over a year after the event iirc. With quite a few holes in the story if you look through it which has been done, repeatedly, especially last year.

I don't think I ever suggested anything except that it was reputed that she shot the officer - what might Fitzgerald's motive be to lie about what she saw?

And Markievicz herself mentioned shooting a police officer in the arm - I don't believe she said which arm, but Lahiff was shot in the left arm.

28-10-2017 05:50PM

Jawgap wrote: »

I don't think I ever suggested anything except that it was reputed that she shot the officer - what might Fitzgerald's motive be to lie about what she saw?

And Markievicz herself mentioned shooting a police officer in the arm - I don't believe she said which arm, but Lahiff was shot in the left arm.

Who knows, but the flaws are there

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/1916/just-who-was-constance-the-misunderstood-countess-34555881.html

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 05:58PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Who knows, but the flaws are there

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/1916/just-who-was-constance-the-misunderstood-countess-34555881.html

Indeed, but if you don't mind I'll stick with the monograph written by the historian as opposed to the Indo piece written by the novelist

Collie D · 28-10-2017 05:59PM

Can't wait to see the DUP reaction to this. The pram won't have any toys left in it.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 28-10-2017 06:00PM

May disappointed me in many ways. I wanted to her to be like Maggie, a true leader and implenter. The greatest ever British PMs were Churchill and Thatcher.

A Little Pony · 28-10-2017 06:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Should have been hanged for her crimes against Irish policemen.

You realise that shortly after 1916 it was generally recognised that shooting the leaders was considered to be a grave strategic error. You get the prize for being the slowest learner yet as regards Irish history.

Actually it wasn't enough.

elperello · 28-10-2017 06:03PM

Collie D wrote: »

Can't wait to see the DUP reaction to this. The pram won't have any toys left in it.

The more I think about it this might be a little land mine she is helpfully leaving behind for her successor.

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 06:03PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

May disappointed me in many ways. I wanted to her to be like Maggie, a true leader and implenter. The greatest ever British PMs were Churchill and Thatcher.

Not Gladsone?

Or Campbell-Bannerman - hugely, hugely under-rated, imo.

steddyeddy · 28-10-2017 06:07PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Not Gladsone?

Or Campbell-Bannerman - hugely, hugely under-rated, imo.

I think a reaction was sought rather than an informed discussion TBF. I don't know much about Campbell-Bannerman, can you tell us why you think he should be better remembered?

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2017 06:09PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

May disappointed me in many ways. I wanted to her to be like Maggie, a true leader and implenter. The greatest ever British PMs were Churchill and Thatcher.

What made you think that? Her previous work shows she was far from a decisive leader.
Like Thatcher she has found a way to divide and wreck her country though.

steddyeddy · 28-10-2017 06:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What made you think that? Her previous work shows she was far from a decisive leader.
Like Thatcher she has found a way to divide and wreck her country though.

There are still families up t'north (how Northerners say up north in England) who wont talk to each other over people voting for her.

A Little Pony · 28-10-2017 06:29PM

Jawgap wrote: »

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

May disappointed me in many ways. I wanted to her to be like Maggie, a true leader and implenter. The greatest ever British PMs were Churchill and Thatcher.

Not Gladsone?

Or Campbell-Bannerman - hugely, hugely under-rated, imo.

Gladstone didn't know what he believed, shifting parties all the time. Maybe he gets more respect due to him not being Jewish like Disraeli.

steddyeddy · 28-10-2017 06:31PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Gladstone didn't know what he believed, shifting parties all the time. Maybe he gets more respect due to him not being Jewish like Disraeli.

Disraeli was Anglican since the age of twelve though.

A Little Pony · 28-10-2017 06:53PM

Not that it makes much difference to some people though.

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 06:54PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think a reaction was sought rather than an informed discussion TBF. I don't know much about Campbell-Bannerman, can you tell us why you think he should be better remembered?

I'd recommend reading Hattersley's biography of him.

Arguably, the only true radical to serve as the UK's PM.

steddyeddy · 28-10-2017 06:57PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not that it makes much difference to some people though.

Ah some people are ejjits.

Berserker · 28-10-2017 06:57PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Thanks to people like her we're not in the sinking ship that is Brexit.

Given the level of dependency that the RoI has on the UK when it comes to trade, I would hold fire on statements like that.

steddyeddy · 28-10-2017 07:10PM

Berserker wrote: »

Given the level of dependency that the RoI has on the UK when it comes to trade, I would hold fire on statements like that.

No I wouldn't. The UK we trade with now will be long gone once they leave the single market. Prior to joining they were calling on the IMF will help. Doubtlessly Brexit will hit us bad, but Id much rather be Irish and in the EU, than British and leaving the biggest single market in the world.

Atoms for Peace · 28-10-2017 07:23PM

The peelers weren't exactly favour of the month at the time of the rising.

The RIC was an armed paramilitary force despised by tenent farmers following their actions in the landwar, likewise the Dublin met's heavy handed tactics during the lock-out. It's not hard to imagine some wanted retribution.

28-10-2017 07:25PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Indeed, but if you don't mind I'll stick with the monograph written by the historian as opposed to the Indo piece written by the novelist

A monograph that relies on a testimony that couldn't stand up in a court of law? That twas typed up a year afterwards and disagrees with the DMP report and other witnesses?

FrancieBrady · 28-10-2017 07:35PM

riffmongous wrote: »

A monograph that relies on a testimony that couldn't stand up in a court of law? That twas typed up a year afterwards and disagrees with the DMP report and other witnesses?

If it tallies with your general view...bingo...hang em!

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 07:37PM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

The peelers weren't exactly favour of the month at the time of the rising.

The RIC was an armed paramilitary force despised by tenent farmers following their actions in the landwar, likewise the Dublin met's heavy handed tactics during the lock-out. It's not hard to imagine some wanted retribution.

If the DMP were so bad, why did the AOH support their campaign for better wages and conditions?

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 07:41PM

riffmongous wrote: »

A monograph that relies on a testimony that couldn't stand up in a court of law? That twas typed up a year afterwards and disagrees with the DMP report and other witnesses?

Actually, I was referring to Arrington's monograph on ethics her subsequent book was based written a sight longer than a year after the events described......but yeah, if your Indo account suits you go with it

Jawgap · 28-10-2017 07:41PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If it tallies with your general view...bingo...hang em!

As usual......a day late and a dollar short

Theresa May to honour Irish republican Countess Markievicz

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