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JFK Files

12357…25

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  • #122
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,391 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Nixon did it.


  • #123
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,671 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I used to read a lot about the case and always believed in the conspiracy theories, until I read a book called Case Closed by some guy Posner. It convinced me it was LHO who did it on his own.

    Then lately I saw a documentary about a guy who has been researching it for decades and he thinks the secret service man in the car behind discharged his gun by accident and blew JFKs head off.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Closed-Harvey-Oswald-Assassination/dp/1400034620/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509055503&sr=8-1&keywords=posner+case+closed


  • #124
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    The U.S. government was in danger Thursday of missing the deadline to release a trove of previously classified records from the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, adding an unexpected twist to a saga already rife with rumors and conspiracies.

    The law says the National Archives must release the 35,000 documents by midnight unless President Donald Trump objects on national security grounds. On Thursday evening, U.S. officials said that some material would be released, and other documents would be withheld to give agencies more time to figure out what they want redacted.

    There you have it folks. 50 years later they still covering up this event.


  • #125
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    I don't see any benefit in covering up a conspiracy as those who partipated or benefitted will surly be dead/retired by now??


  • #126
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,019 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The U.S. government was in danger Thursday of missing the deadline to release a trove of previously classified records from the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, adding an unexpected twist to a saga already rife with rumors and conspiracies.

    The law says the National Archives must release the 35,000 documents by midnight unless President Donald Trump objects on national security grounds. On Thursday evening, U.S. officials said that some material would be released, and other documents would be withheld to give agencies more time to figure out what they want redacted.

    There you have it folks. 50 years later they still covering up this event.


    "time to Figure out what they want redacted" What have the agencies of the government been doing for 25 years exactly ? They knew this day was coming so if they wanted stuff redacted they had plenty of time to do so and state the reasons why.


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  • #127
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    So some of the files are being withheld apparently.

    The conspiracies will continue


  • #128
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I used to read a lot about the case and always believed in the conspiracy theories, until I read a book called Case Closed by some guy Posner. It convinced me it was LHO who did it on his own.

    Then lately I saw a documentary about a guy who has been researching it for decades and he thinks the secret service man in the car behind discharged his gun by accident and blew JFKs head off.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Closed-Harvey-Oswald-Assassination/dp/1400034620/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509055503&sr=8-1&keywords=posner+case+closed

    Accidental discharge at the same moment LHO takes his shot?
    Or was it the Agent's panicked or clumsy reaction to LHO's shots that caused him to fire.
    Was there much/any evidence for this?


  • #129
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    "time to Figure out what they want redacted" What have the agencies of the government been doing for 25 years exactly ? They knew this day was coming so if they wanted stuff redacted they had plenty of time to do so and state the reasons why.

    They likely expected the President to delay the release! Don't forget the CIA and FBI lobbied the President to not release, he ignored them. Now just to be sure there is nothing in the files that can harm them they are stopping the release of some files.


  • #130
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,671 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Shooting_holes_in_theory_that_a_Secret_Service_agent_killed_President_Kennedy.html

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/accidental-assassin-jfk-theory-alleges-secret-service-agent-fumbled-gun-f2D11634276


  • #131
    buried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,967 ✭✭✭buried


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I don't see any benefit in covering up a conspiracy as those who partipated or benefitted will surly be dead/retired by now??

    True. Barry Seal got 'retired' real good. Check that lad out.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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  • #132
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    mark_jmc wrote: »
    I've been to the museum in Dallas and I can't comprehend why Oswald didn't shoot him when the motorcade was travelling towards the book depository but instead waited until they were moving away down toward the underpass- from the vantage point of the window in the building it was a more difficult shot to take

    It would be a much harder shot when he was traveling left to right across Oswald’s field of view. When JFK was moving in a straight line in front of the window he was also traveling downslope towards the underpass. The effect of moving away (upwards in the gunsight) was largely cancelled out by his moving downslope (downwards in the gunsight) so he appeared to be close to stationary for a time, from Oswald’s point of view.

    Any of the ‘snipers couldn’t match Oswald’ type TV reconstructions usually have a car traveling on a flat surface, a much harder shot than Oswald had.

    The shot Oswald chose was a very easy shot. His record in rifle shooting in the army shows he was unusual in actually improving in accuracy the faster he shot.


  • #133
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I used to read a lot about the case and always believed in the conspiracy theories, until I read a book called Case Closed by some guy Posner. It convinced me it was LHO who did it on his own.

    Then lately I saw a documentary about a guy who has been researching it for decades and he thinks the secret service man in the car behind discharged his gun by accident and blew JFKs head off.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Case-Closed-Harvey-Oswald-Assassination/dp/1400034620/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1509055503&sr=8-1&keywords=posner+case+closed

    It's quite unfortunate alright when your gun goes off by accident 3 times in 8.3 seconds and 2 of them, out of a crowd of hundreds, happen to hit the one person who is the US President


  • #134
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    It would be a much harder shot when he was traveling left to right across Oswald’s field of view. When JFK was moving in a straight line in front of the window he was also traveling downslope towards the underpass. The effect of moving away (upwards in the gunsight) was largely cancelled out by his moving downslope (downwards in the gunsight) so he appeared to be close to stationary for a time, from Oswald’s point of view.

    The shot Oswald chose was a very easy shot. His record in rifle shooting in the army shows he was unusual in actually improving in accuracy the faster he shot.

    The shot was never the problem. It was shooting 3 bullets in 6 seconds using a bolt action gun, hard to use. Never mind the Magic bullet that barely got damaged after passing through Kennedy and Connolly.


  • #135
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    It's quite unfortunate alright when your gun goes off by accident 3 times in 8.3 seconds and 2 of them, out of a crowd of hundreds, happen to hit the one person who is the US President

    I would imagine he was referring to the "4th shot"


  • #136
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    It would be a much harder shot when he was traveling left to right across Oswald’s field of view. When JFK was moving in a straight line in front of the window he was also traveling downslope towards the underpass. The effect of moving away (upwards in the gunsight) was largely cancelled out by his moving downslope (downwards in the gunsight) so he appeared to be close to stationary for a time, from Oswald’s point of view.

    Any of the ‘snipers couldn’t match Oswald’ type TV reconstructions usually have a car traveling on a flat surface, a much harder shot than Oswald had.

    The shot Oswald chose was a very easy shot. His record in rifle shooting in the army shows he was unusual in actually improving in accuracy the faster he shot.


    Was Oswald left handed? There seems to be conflicting claims on this - looking on the net. If he was a leftie, I think the shot to his left out the window would be a little awkward. If I'm not mistaken Oswald was facing roughly westward - so the Sun would not factor into either shot.


  • #137
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Fox News: WH not releasing all #JFK docs, will only release 2,800, citing nat'l security concerns


  • #138
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Trump admin gives agencies until March 26, 2018 to release #JFK docs. This will be the documents, they will edit, review and blacken.


  • #139
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The shot was never the problem. It was shooting 3 bullets in 6 seconds using a bolt action gun, hard to use. Never mind the Magic bullet that barely got damaged after passing through Kennedy and Connolly.

    It wasn’t 3 bullets in six seconds, he had all the time in the world to line up the first shot. So if you are timing the rapid firing of the gun then the timer starts after the trigger is first pulled. 2 shots in the following 6 seconds. Some people have timed it and it may have been 8 seconds between the first and last shots.

    There’s no ‘magic bullet’. It is simple physics. The bullet passed through JFK’s throat and exited without hitting any bones. That slowed the bullet down considerably before it entered Connolly’s back. The first bone it hit was the soft, thin bone of his rib cage on exit.

    By then it was traveling at a fraction of the original speed because it was spinning after it left JFK and then entered Connolly lengthways. The first hard bone it hit was Connoly’s wrist and by then it was traveling at a low speed for a bullet. For bone to deform hard metal (the bullet had a full metal jacket), it has to be traveling very fast.


  • #140
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The shot was never the problem. It was shooting 3 bullets in 6 seconds using a bolt action gun, hard to use. Never mind the Magic bullet that barely got damaged after passing through Kennedy and Connolly.

    I think the myth that that bullet was undamaged has been well and truly debunked. Wasn't based on fact.

    The magic bullet's trajectory is also not so magical when they later factored in that Connolly was sitting a half bodies width more into the centre of the car than JFK behind him. Connolly was half turned to his left. JFK's seat was very slightly higher than Connolly's in the front. The angle of the shot from the Depository fits with these alignments.


  • #141
    Cortina_MK_IV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭Cortina_MK_IV


    Are Am Eye wrote: »
    Was Oswald left handed? There seems to be conflicting claims on this - looking on the net. If he was a leftie, I think the shot to his left out the window would be a little awkward. If I'm not mistaken Oswald was facing roughly westward - so the Sun would not factor into either shot.

    It would seem not. Another photo is the one of him handing out leaflets right-handed.

    LHO_training.jpg


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  • #142
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    It wasn’t 3 bullets in six seconds, he had all the time in the world to line up the first shot. So if you are timing the rapid firing of the gun then the timer starts after the trigger is first pulled. 2 shots in the following 6 seconds. Some people have timed it and it may have been 8 seconds between the first and last shots.

    There’s no ‘magic bullet’. It is simple physics. The bullet passed through JFK’s throat and exited without hitting any bones. That slowed the bullet down considerably before it entered Connolly’s back. The first bone it hit was the soft, thin bone of his rib cage on exit.

    By then it was traveling at a fraction of the original speed because it was spinning after it left JFK and then entered Connolly lengthways. The first hard bone it hit was Connoly’s wrist and by then it was traveling at a low speed for a bullet. For bone to deform hard metal (the bullet had a full metal jacket), it has to be traveling very fast.

    Skeptics have tried and every time have not be able to replicate the magic bullet shot. There bullet when recovered was smashed and deformed. A bullet would suffer severe deformities after it hit the skin, then ribs, the wrist and finally the thigh of Connolly.


  • #143
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Are Am Eye wrote: »
    I think the myth that that bullet was undamaged has been well and truly debunked. Wasn't based on fact.

    The magic bullet's trajectory is also not so magical when they later factored in that Connolly was sitting a half bodies width more into the centre of the car than JFK behind him. Connolly was half turned to his left. JFK's seat was very slightly higher than Connolly's in the front. The angle of the shot from the Depository fits with these alignments.

    Fragments broke off, but the bullet was intact. And the bullet was mysteriously found at the hospital? Why was it not found inside the car Kennedy was travelling in?


  • #144
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Skeptics have tried and every time have not be able to replicate the magic bullet shot.

    One would wonder how hard a skeptic would try??


  • #145
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Fragments broke off, but the bullet was intact. And the bullet was mysteriously found at the hospital? Why was it not found inside the car Kennedy was travelling in?

    Because it was embedded in Connolly’s thigh before it worked its way out. The bullet wound was examined and recorded. If it wasn’t on the trolley, it would still have been in Connolly. As I have explained, it was traveling very slowly for a bullet before it came to rest, so was not deep in Connolly’s thigh.


  • #146
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Skeptics have tried and every time have not be able to replicate the magic bullet shot. There bullet when recovered was smashed and deformed. A bullet would suffer severe deformities after it hit the skin, then ribs, the wrist and finally the thigh of Connolly.

    Full metal jackets were designed specifically to pass through bodies without breaking up or becoming deformed enough to cause massive exit wounds, after the experience of horrific injuries from fragmenting bullets on the battlefield.


  • #147
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Because it was embedded in Connolly’s thigh before it worked it’s way out. As I have explained, it was traveling very slowly for a bullet before it came to rest, so was not deep in Connolly’s thigh.

    Only Fragments of a bullet were extracted from Connolly. There is no evidence whatsoever the bullet in the Archives ( magic bullet) was fired by Oswald. It was found on stretcher, it was never taken out of any part of Connolly body,


  • #148
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Around 2:00 pm a Parkland hospital worker found an intact bullet between the pad and metal side flange on one of the Kennedy entourage stretchers. The bullet had obviously been fired as it displayed the engraved striations from the lands and grooves of a rifle barrel. Evidence put before the Warren Commission could not positively establish if the bullet was found on Kennedy’s stretcher or Connally’s and the bullet’s chain of custody was not clearly recorded. It passed between at least five people before coming into possession of the FBI firearms examiner who forensically matched it with Oswald’s sixth-floor rifle to “the exclusion of all other firearms”. This bullet weighed 158.60 grains and was entered into the Warren Commission’s evidence as Exhibit 399 and is now stored in the National Archives in Washington.


  • #149
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Only Fragments of a bullet were extracted from Connolly. There is no evidence whatsoever the bullet in the Archives ( magic bullet) was fired by Oswald. It was found on stretcher, it was never taken out of any part of Connolly body,

    Except every gun leaves a specific set of markings on a bullet that was fired through it. The bullet has been sitting in the archives as well as the gun, if someone could prove it wasn’t fired by that rifle, I think we would have heard about it. The ballistics experts that examined it showed it was fired from the recovered gun.


  • #150
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    One would wonder how hard a skeptic would try??

    Oh they tried to prove the conspiracy people wrong.


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  • #151
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Except every gun leaves a specific set of markings on a bullet that was fired through it. The bullet has been sitting in the archives as well as the gun, if someone could prove it wasn’t fired by that rifle, I think we would have heard about it. The ballistics experts that examined it showed it was fired from the recovered gun.

    The bullets are the same. A stranger could use the same make gun and bullets and the ballistic expert not could tell the difference.


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