Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

budhabob · 26-10-2017 05:19PM

Whatever about the Zebo exclusion, leaving out Rory Scannell, and including the two kearneys is very poor. Scannell has been far better than Farrell, and anyone else is better than the Kearneys (I was a big fan, but time to move on). Good to see McCloskey back in the squad.

molloyjh · 26-10-2017 05:24PM

budhabob wrote: »

Whatever about the Zebo exclusion, leaving out Rory Scannell, and including the two kearneys is very poor. Scannell has been far better than Farrell, and anyone else is better than the Kearneys (I was a big fan, but time to move on). Good to see McCloskey back in the squad.

Farrell is selected as a 13 so isn’t competing directly with Scannell. McCloskey is the one to benefit from Scannells exclusion.

As for the Kearney’s I’d say a lot of that is down to a lack of experience in the back 3 generally, particularly FB. Let’s wait and see what the selections are like before getting outraged. We’ve selected a few young lads there too so it balances out.

bilston · 26-10-2017 05:26PM

Interesting calls.

The biggest call here is at hooker IMO. Is Cronin injured or just left out? I'm not convinced by either Herring or Tracy. Best is just back from a hamstring injury as well. That's a huge call.

With Zebo, I can see why he has been left out, however I'd use him while we can. I wonder if he might squeeze back in for the 6Ns as that isn't a developmental tournament where as these Autumn games may be more about building Ireland's options.

Not surprised Marshall has been left out. Not sold on Farrell yet and surprised to see Scannell left at home. I guess we are looking at Henshaw and Aki for SA, but McCloskey will be close.

Looking forward to it anyway.

Yeah_Right · 26-10-2017 05:42PM

I complete understand the inclusion of the Kearneys. There is a lot of inexperience in the back 3 with the exception of RK and Earls. DK has nearly twice as many caps as the other 5 back three players combined.

awec · 26-10-2017 05:46PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I complete understand the inclusion of the Kearneys. There is a lot of inexperience in the back 3 with the exception of RK and Earls. DK has nearly twice as many caps as the other 5 back three players combined.

The Kearney's would have cheesed me off a lot if he'd also selected Bowe, Zebo and Trimble.

But Conway, Sweetnam and Stockdale kind of force his hand into bringing the Kearney's along too. I think the two of them can consider themselves a bit fortunate, Kearney Jnr especially who has struggled to get into the Leinster team this season.

irishbucsfan · 26-10-2017 05:48PM

Both Kearneys will start against South Africa and people will disembowel themselves.

26-10-2017 05:54PM

No, don’t include Zebo as they need to send a good strong message to both PoM and Stander that leaving Ireland for the money is going to ruin their Ireland careers. Send it now during the autumns prior to the traditional contract negotiation period rather than during the 6Ns. This message is being made to every other Ireland qualified player and international, chase the money in France and UK fine but don’t think you are irreplaceable. Sexton was a nearly unique situation but I imagine and hope of Murray looked abroad the same exception would be made for him.

No press conference was held I imagine because they didn’t want to make up some BS see through excuses and be called on them and have a press cycle completely dominated by them. Poker players also don’t show their hands.

Ask yourself a question, do you want PoM and Stander to remain with Munster and play for Ireland or do you want to jeopardise that to have Zebo included to possibly play against Fiji, Argentina and South Africa ?

bilston · 26-10-2017 05:56PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Both Kearneys will start against South Africa and people will disembowel themselves.

There's a pretty good chance they will.

It will be interesting seeing Stockdale up against Dave Kearney this weekend (assuming they both play)...

sydthebeat · 26-10-2017 06:06PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Both Kearneys will start against South Africa and people will disembowel themselves.

I think stockdale will start with earls on the overside.

The outrage would be fun though.

LuckyGent88 · 26-10-2017 06:08PM

Completely understand leaving out zebo although I really think we need him for the FB selection considering he hasn't picked TOH.

I see the reason why the kearney's are in the squad but we are going to really struggle to beat big teams with rob at FB imo. I think he is bang average in attack and when you compare him to all the other international teams we compete against he would be bottom of the list. Williams, hogg, brown, Mckenzie, falou. Rob just doesn't possess any of the qualities that are now needed in possession. Under the kicking game he is exceptional but counter attacking is huge now and I just think he is terrible in attack.

Strange that Farrell is in over Marshall. As a munster fan, Farrell hasn't impressed me much. Solid but not much after that.

Hooker is now a problem position really. Tracy has been poor for Leinster and while Cronin hasn't exactly been much better I would have had him in instead.

irishbucsfan · 26-10-2017 06:11PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I think stockdale will start with earls on the overside.

The outrage would be fun though.

He could, I’d say Joe is a big fan. Big defensive game though so I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Dave is in line for it.

tototoe · 26-10-2017 06:12PM

No justification for the 2 Kearneys to be there imo....but in joe we trust and all that rubbish...

irishbucsfan · 26-10-2017 06:14PM

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

but we are going to really struggle to beat big teams with rob at FB Imo

Jaysus given who we beat with him last year I’d love to know you think are the big teams?!

The Rape of Lucretia · 26-10-2017 06:18PM

OldRio wrote: »

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Dave is in the mix though. Will get game time somewhere. Quite possibly as starter for the biggies.

Sadly, I honestly think you thought that was amusing and witty. You were wrong.

Erik Shin wrote: »

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Dave is in the mix though. Will get game time somewhere. Quite possibly as starter for the biggies.

The big B&I cup games I'd say

I honestly think...etc

Deleted User wrote: »

BACKS (17)
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) uncapped
Adam Byrne (UCD/Leinster) uncapped
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 4 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 3 caps
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 62 caps
Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) uncapped
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 29 caps
Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 16 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 76 caps
Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster) 5 caps
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 16 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/UIster) 1 cap
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 4 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 57 caps
Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 66 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 2 caps
Darren Sweetnam (Cork Constitution/Munster) uncapped

26-10-2017 06:46PM

Maybe Zebo was dropped because he's not good enough

connachta · 26-10-2017 06:47PM

None of Kearneys should be there. If we were properly preparing RWC 2019

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 06:47PM

I have given out about Schmidt on here alot and I stand by that. He is a very strange coach.
Unless scannel, cronin and ohalloran are injured there is no justification.
And the decision with Zebo has the potential for bad blood, ie certain players are above the rules.
all in all we will always under perform with Schmidt as he always refused to pick the best available players.
Scannell Aki Henshaw and Mccloskey are currently the form available centres and no codology about 12 and 13 changes that fact.
but with Schmidt there is always some illogical picks and more illogical posts on here backing those same Schmidt picks.

26-10-2017 06:53PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I have given out about Schmidt on here alot and I stand by that. He is a very strange coach.
Unless scannel, cronin and ohalloran are injured there is no justification.
And the decision with Zebo has the potential for bad blood, ie certain players are above the rules.
all in all we will always under perform with Schmidt as he always refused to pick the best available players.
Scannell Aki Henshaw and Mccloskey are currently the form available centres and no codology about 12 and 13 changes that fact.
but with Schmidt there is always some illogical picks and more illogical posts on here backing those same Schmidt picks.

Ah I miss Irish rugby

And yes some players are above the rules. I'd say only the utterly top class irreplaceable players. Probably only Sexton, Murray and Heaslip.

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 06:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah I miss Irish rugby

And just to also add,Sexton was reported to have said the Zebo decision was a big one as Zebo would now miss the 2019 world cup.
Peculiar comment from a man who made the exact same move but magically did not miss out on any Irish game time.
Can someone explain please.

26-10-2017 07:06PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

And just to also add,Sexton was reported to have said the Zebo decision was a big one as Zebo would now miss the 2019 world cup.
Peculiar comment from a man who made the exact same move but magically did not miss out on any Irish game time.
Can someone explain please.

You know the explanation

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 07:09PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

And just to also add,Sexton was reported to have said the Zebo decision was a big one as Zebo would now miss the 2019 world cup.
Peculiar comment from a man who made the exact same move but magically did not miss out on any Irish game time.
Can someone explain please.

Wouldn't have thought it needs explaining. But you can head over to The 42 and read what he said about it in his own words.

Wegians89 · 26-10-2017 07:09PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

And just to also add,Sexton was reported to have said the Zebo decision was a big one as Zebo would now miss the 2019 world cup.
Peculiar comment from a man who made the exact same move but magically did not miss out on any Irish game time.
Can someone explain please.

Sexton was arguably the best 10 in world rugby never mind Ireland. Zebo is very good but there'd be question marks over him being first choice for Ireland over the next two/three years

Erik Shin · 26-10-2017 07:11PM

The reality is the IRFU played brinkmanship with Sexton and they lost, he went to Paris...and within 8 months he'd signed a contract to return, they probably learned from.that debacle you would hope

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 07:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You know the explanation

You can admit sexton like obrien have made a serious boo boo.
Actually very very funny.

Neil3030 · 26-10-2017 07:15PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I have given out about Schmidt on here alot and I stand by that. He is a very strange coach.
Unless scannel, cronin and ohalloran are injured there is no justification.
And the decision with Zebo has the potential for bad blood, ie certain players are above the rules.
all in all we will always under perform with Schmidt as he always refused to pick the best available players.
Scannell Aki Henshaw and Mccloskey are currently the form available centres and no codology about 12 and 13 changes that fact.
but with Schmidt there is always some illogical picks and more illogical posts on here backing those same Schmidt picks.

Fullly agree. Schmidt's preference for McCloskey, Herring and Conway over the above players just highlights the depth of the plight we're in. He can't even keep his Leinster bias consistent - switching it to an Ulster bias or Munster bias when it suits him. Bizarre.

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 07:18PM

Wegians89 wrote: »

Sexton was arguably the best 10 in world rugby never mind Ireland. Zebo is very good but there'd be question marks over him being first choice for Ireland over the next two/three years

Both your points are simply not true.
Sexton was never at any time the best 10 in world rugby.
Zebo is one of the 2 best wings in Ireland and 2/3 years is not going to change that. For clarity I don not think Zebo is, was or ever will be one of the best wingers in the world.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 07:21PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

Both your points are simply not true.
Sexton was never at any time the best 10 in world rugby.
Zebo is one of the 2 best wings in Ireland and 2/3 years is not going to change that. For clarity I don not think Zebo is, was or ever will be one of the best wingers in the world.

He didn't have to be the best in world rugby. Just the best Irish qualified one. Clearly better than just that of course.

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 07:24PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Wouldn't have thought it needs explaining. But you can head over to The 42 and read what he said about it in his own words.

where are these rules written down or is it just a policy the IRFU applies as it sees fit.
Genuine question.

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 07:27PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

He didn't have to be the best in world rugby. Just the best Irish qualified one. Clearly better than just that of course.

By that logic toner, henshaw, rob and dave kearney could play abroad but continue to be picked for Ireland. They are the best in their position by a country mile. they are irreplaceable.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 07:29PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

where are these rules written down or is it just a policy the IRFU applies as it sees fit.
Genuine question.

You are clearly aware of what's been said on the matter. It's four years since Sexton went to Paris, drawing comparisons is futile.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781