Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

RichieRich89 · 23-10-2017 09:09PM

gleesonisgod wrote: »

How is McCartney not a long term option if he's only 32?

Yeah. That line of thinking would see everyone dropped once they reach the age of 32. It's nonsensical.

Former Former · 23-10-2017 09:17PM

Clegg wrote: »

Henshaw is being vastly underrated here. He's the best 12 on the island.

This is the serial position effect. People remember his breakthrough at 15/13 and his recent good showings at 13.

The fact that he became world class with the move to 12 is forgotten because it came in the middle.

gleesonisgod · 23-10-2017 09:18PM

Clegg wrote: »

Henshaw is being vastly underrated here. He's the best 12 on the island.

Henshaw has a better workrate, possibly the best of any centre anywhere, and is possibly a better defender than Aki, althoguh Aki is pretty good here.

Aki's a better carrier, off.loader, has a better passing game, much better qualities for a 12. Teo worked better with Ringer than Robbie does because his offloading and carrying was so good.

gleesonisgod · 23-10-2017 09:21PM

Former Former wrote: »

This is the serial position effect. People remember his breakthrough at 15/13 and his recent good showings at 13.

The fact that he became world class with the move to 12 is forgotten because it came in the middle.

Nobody's undderating Henshaw at 12 , theyre underrating Aki at 12.

Henshaw is a great 12 but there's a reason he didn;t get near the Lions team. He dosen't have either the bosh/offload game, or the creative game.

23-10-2017 09:22PM

Former Former wrote: »

This is the serial position effect. People remember his breakthrough at 15/13 and his recent good showings at 13.

The fact that he became world class with the move to 12 is forgotten because it came in the middle.

Some of it's that, you can't help but get the feeling that Henshaw's best position at times is whatever position doesn't clash with poster 'x's favourite players position.

He had a great game at 13 against Montpellier. Montpellier showed awful effort to rejoin the line after a few phases which gifted us tons of space in mid field that he took advantage of.

Not to take away from his performance which was top drawer, but the moment of the match for me was when Nadolo shunted him and he had the wherewithal to get onto his bootlaces for another go. It's something you'd expect to see from a top class 12 used to heavy traffic.

Wegians89 · 23-10-2017 09:23PM

Former Former wrote: »

This is the serial position effect. People remember his breakthrough at 15/13 and his recent good showings at 13.

The fact that he became world class with the move to 12 is forgotten because it came in the middle.

He would have become world classER if he had stayed 13.
Joking aside he's a brilliant player to hane and would have stood out at international level in 12,13 or 15 just so happens it was 12 he's played most his internationals at

23-10-2017 09:27PM

gleesonisgod wrote: »

Henshaw has a better workrate, possibly the best of any centre anywhere, and is possibly a better defender than Aki, althoguh Aki is pretty good here.

Aki's a better carrier, off.loader, has a better passing game, much better qualities for a 12. Teo worked better with Ringer than Robbie does because his offloading and carrying was so good.

Henshaw has a better passing game than Aki and Henshaw / Ringrose is a far superior partnership than Teo Ringrose was. Teo has improved since then, but let's not revise history here.

gleesonisgod wrote: »

Nobody's undderating Henshaw at 12 , theyre underrating Aki at 12.

Henshaw is a great 12 but there's a reason he didn;t get near the Lions team. He dosen't have either the bosh/offload game, or the creative game.

WTF? He was basically as close to making a Lions team as you can get without making a Lions team???

No one is underrating Aki, he's not played any international rugby, no european knock out rugby and yet everyone has him pencilled in for the National squad. That is the opposite of under rating.

I think Aki could be a top class 12 or 13 and he maybe first choice centre for Ireland quite soon, but he'll replace one or either of Ringrose or Henshaw, I can't envisage him replacing one to be shunted into the position of the other.

ClanofLams · 23-10-2017 09:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some of it's that, you can't help but get the feeling that Henshaw's best position at times is whatever position doesn't clash with poster 'x's favourite players position.

You could go back through my posts for years and I've said he's a better 13, long before Aki was about to play for Ireland. Henshaw is a very good 12 but it doesn't make the most of his skill set.

Admittedly I don't watch him every week but the last performance I seen from him at provincial level to match his game v Montpelier was the Pro12 final when he was also at 13.

awec · 23-10-2017 09:30PM

Former Former wrote: »

This is the serial position effect. People remember his breakthrough at 15/13 and his recent good showings at 13.

The fact that he became world class with the move to 12 is forgotten because it came in the middle.

If you go back through the forum you'll see Henshaw as a 13 has come up time and time and time again, even when he was playing 12. People have hardly forgotten, it's hardly a new opinion. In fact, I think Henshaw as a 15 was discussed originally, either way there has always been a view that he is a wasted talent at 12.

The Rape of Lucretia · 23-10-2017 09:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of it's that, you can't help but get the feeling that Henshaw's best position at times is whatever position doesn't clash with poster 'x's favourite players position.

Does that suggest that Hench himself is nobody's favourite player. Which if so, would in itself tell us something, highish regard as most of us have of him not withstanding?

23-10-2017 09:36PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Does that suggest that Hench himself is nobody's favourite player. Which if so, would in itself tell us something, highish regard as most of us have of him not withstanding?

Actually you're wrong on both counts. The reality is that everyone has the same favourite player and when you think about it, how could we not all love Gorgeous Rob:

The fact that some people have a right go at him on the forum is the clearest case of 'I doth protest too much' I've ever seen.

Buer · 23-10-2017 09:37PM

Strange that everyone who was extolling the virtues of Henshaw at 13 on the basis of one game against Montpellier have been very quiet in relation to one game against Glasgow.

damianmcr · 23-10-2017 09:37PM

Ah come on. Rob is well past it. Once a great but he just isnt that good anymore. See Tommy Bowe also.

Zebo is a great loss to Ireland.

Bazzo · 23-10-2017 09:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think Aki could be a top class 12 or 13 and he maybe first choice centre for Ireland quite soon, but he'll replace one or either of Ringrose or Henshaw, I can't envisage him replacing one to be shunted into the position of the other.

You're ignoring the fact that 12. Aki 13. Henshaw was a long established and very successful partnership.

Buer · 23-10-2017 09:39PM

ClanofLams wrote:

Henshaw's a better 13 than 12. I didn't see the Leinster game last weekend but his performance at 13 the week before was the best I have seen him play for Leinster.

He was roasted against Glasgow on more than one occasion.

He's an excellent 13 generally but he's just as good at 12. The role he fills at 12 just isn't as eye catching as the one at 13 is.

Bazzo · 23-10-2017 09:43PM

Aki is also an excellent distributor btw. Henshaw's passing is often underrated but I still think Aki's is better. See the Toulouse game last year where he took a heavy knock and had to ease back the contact part of his game, he essentially played out the game as a second 5/8th. Also watch any of his passing off the base of a ruck when he steps in as scrum half, quick, snappy and accurate. It's just overshadowed by other aspects of his game.

ClanofLams · 23-10-2017 09:43PM

Buer wrote: »

He was roasted against Glasgow on more than one occasion.

He's an excellent 13 generally but he's just as good at 12. The role he fills at 12 just isn't as eye catching as the one at 13 is.

Fair enough. As I said I didn't see it.

Time will tell but I certainly wouldn't rule out Aki Henshaw emerging as the first choice partnership.

Former Former · 23-10-2017 09:49PM

So Henshaw plays his club rugby at 12. Aki plays his club rugby at 13.

Why would we swap them for the national side?

awec · 23-10-2017 09:53PM

Former Former wrote: »

So Henshaw plays his club rugby at 12. Aki plays his club rugby at 13.

Why would we swap them for the national side?

We've definitely never picked players for Ireland in positions other than the one they play provincially before.

I mean, Robbie Henshaw definitely wasn't playing 13 and 15 when he was picked at 12 for Ireland.

ClanofLams · 23-10-2017 09:55PM

Former Former wrote: »

So Henshaw plays his club rugby at 12. Aki plays his club rugby at 13.

Why would we swap them for the national side?

Aki alternates and his best position is 12. Aki/Henshaw have a pretty good track record too.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2017 09:56PM

Buer wrote: »

He was roasted against Glasgow on more than one occasion.

He's an excellent 13 generally but he's just as good at 12. The role he fills at 12 just isn't as eye catching as the one at 13 is.

He wasn't really roasted. He missed a lot of tackles, but that's a side effect of an agressive blitz defence. He may not have got his man on those occssions, but he cut off the options and the cavalry mopped up.

irishbucsfan · 23-10-2017 09:57PM

I'd imagine Aki will be at 13 in that partnership, much easier to integrate him also easier to swap Ringrose in/out if it doesn't involve moving Henshaw.

irishbucsfan · 23-10-2017 09:57PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

He wasn't really roasted. He missed a lot of tackles, but that's a side effect of an agressive blitz defence. He may not have got his man on those occssions, but he cut off the options and the cavalry mopped up.

He got beaten on the outside for line breaks at least twice

Wegians89 · 23-10-2017 10:01PM

Former Former wrote: »

So Henshaw plays his club rugby at 12. Aki plays his club rugby at 13.

Why would we swap them for the national side?

Think aki playing 13 has a lot to do with henshaw moving east. Since then bundee has obviously become first target for opposing teams to try shut down and often had 2/3 players pouncing on him at 12. Moving out to 13 gives him a fraction more space but also Connacht don't have a real quality partner to drag defenders out into the 13 channel as henshaw did. Be been very impressed with tom Farrell at 12 recently but I feel when pita ahki arrives you'll see bundee move back into 12. It also doesn't seem to matter where they play at club , henshaw plays 13 although his time at Connacht and yet Schmidt picked him at 12.

Think it's brilliant we can have this discussion. To have three top class centres available obviously bundee still has to prove himself at international level but the different combinations and variations is something to look forward to. As I Connacht fan I naturally am biased towards 12 bundee 13 henshaw though.

Buer · 23-10-2017 10:02PM

He was absolutely torched on the outside early on and clutching at air when Glasgow made a 70m break resulting in their opening score.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2017 10:03PM

Buer wrote: »

He was absolutely torched on the outside early on and clutching at six when Glasgow made a 70m break resulting in their opening score.

He's not going to be any quicker playing at 12.

Buer · 23-10-2017 10:06PM

prawnsambo wrote:

He's not going to be any quicker playing at 12.

He's also not going to be in the position to get torched defending that outside channel.

prawnsambo · 23-10-2017 10:12PM

Buer wrote: »

He's also not going to be in the position to get torched defending that outside channel.

You really think so? I'd be surprised if he didn't spend some time in the outside channel during any given match. Regardless of the number on his back.

molloyjh · 23-10-2017 10:14PM

awec wrote: »

We've definitely never picked players for Ireland in positions other than the one they play provincially before.

I mean, Robbie Henshaw definitely wasn't playing 13 and 15 when he was picked at 12 for Ireland.

Which would be a good point if you were talking about slotting 1 player into a position where we needed him. Which is what happened when Henshaw started playing 12.

However what we are now talking about is switching 2 players around when there is absolutely no need to. That’s a completely different thing.

durthacht · 23-10-2017 10:15PM

awec wrote: »

We've definitely never picked players for Ireland in positions other than the one they play provincially before.

I mean, Robbie Henshaw definitely wasn't playing 13 and 15 when he was picked at 12 for Ireland.

Quite right. Coaches need to be imaginative in deciding positions for players.

It's one of Les Kiss' best qualities I think...

(Too soon...?!)

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781