Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Former Former · 22-10-2017 02:50PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I really don't see RK as an automatic selection anymore, even for JS. He'll need to play next week.

It's all fitness dependent but, up to now at least, Kearney has always been in the same "if he's fit, he plays" bracket as Best, SOB, Sexton etc. Lack of game time has never counted against him before.

This might be the year that changes, or it might not.

22-10-2017 02:52PM

Kearney is the sort of player that just needs one solid to good game and he can make his way back into the Ireland test team. I think he's probably pushed his luck as far as it can go at this stage though and a combination of no gametime and generally lack of hardiness will probably see him miss the AI's.

I'd have Zebo in at FB personally, Carbery has a ways to go on him yet.

As far as backrow is concerned, Ruddock and VDF have put in the best performances so far followed by Conan and TOD. We haven't seen enough of SOB but he is well out in front of any other backrow in Ireland in terms of ability so he'll always come in from the cold if fit.

POM and Stander have no right to a starting position based on form but I'd imagine at least one will be in the starting 15.

As of right now I'd go SOB, VDF and Stander with Ruddock on the bench but I'd be sorely tested to have Conan in there and either move SOB to 7 and start POM at 6 or just go with SOB VDF Conan.

Stander is going to give everything but he is a shadow of the player of seasons past and hasn't evolved his game at all.

What's going on with Porter, is he behind Bent or carrying a knock? Was surprised not to see him play Europe in the first two rounds.

wp_rathead · 22-10-2017 03:02PM

Ian Whitten's try was other worldly

Edit: wrong thread

gleesonisgod · 22-10-2017 03:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have Zebo in at FB personally, Carbery has a ways to go on him yet.

As far as backrow is concerned, Ruddock and VDF have put in the best performances so far followed by Conan and TOD. We haven't seen enough of SOB but he is well out in front of any other backrow in Ireland in terms of ability so he'll always come in from the cold if fit.

POM and Stander have no right to a starting position based on form but I'd imagine at least one will be in the starting 15.

As of right now I'd go SOB, VDF and Stander with Ruddock on the bench but I'd be sorely tested to have Conan in there and either move SOB to 7 and start POM at 6 or just go with SOB VDF Conan.

Stander is going to give everything but he is a shadow of the player of seasons past and hasn't evolved his game at all.

Fullback and backrow are both very interesting atm.

We have three quality fb options atm with Payne out, and I'd agree that Zebo offers the most all round. TOH is the best going forward imo, and is decent under the high ball but his kicking game and ability to stand and create stuff at 1st/2nd receiver would not be on par with Carbs or Zeebs. If Carberry was as good under the highball as Zeebs I'd go with him as he looks excellent defensively and being an outhalf is the best creatively (although zeebs is also excellent in that area).

I can see Robbie being used there somewhere down the road, maybe in the 6N, when both Aki and Ringrose are available.

For backrow I can't look beyond VDF, SOB, Conan.

VDF has been the form backrow over the last 6months, and is the best at shutting down opposition 7s. I think people don't put enough weight on the fact that he shut down Pocock and Hooper last year and got MOTM.

SOB as you say has to start if fit.

Then it's between Conan and CJ for 8. Conan offers so much more and has outplayed CJ for the last year. He's a better ball, carrier, brilliant offloader, and a better lineout option. I'd have POM on the bench as he's offered great impact coming the bench in the past. I'ts harsh on Ruddock, Leavy, TOD, and Cj, but five brilliant backrowers have to miss out on the squad.

Erik Shin · 22-10-2017 03:37PM

Seems very familiar...can't quite put my finger on it though

wp_rathead · 22-10-2017 03:49PM

I'd have POM, CJ and JvdF with Conan on bench for the Argentina and SA games
We know SOB will start if fit for the Six Nations - but with his injuries he isnt guaranteed to be available so be good to leave him out for the Autumn Series so other options get a look in

Don't know about Fiji game, maybe Ruddock, Conan and O'Donnell with Reidy/ Jordi Murphy on bench ?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 22-10-2017 03:55PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

I'd have POM, CJ and JvdF with Conan on bench for the Argentina and SA games
We know SOB will start if fit for the Six Nations - but with his injuries he isnt guaranteed to be available so be good to leave him out for the Autumn Series so other options get a look in

Don't know about Fiji game, maybe Ruddock, Conan and O'Donnell with Reidy/ Jordi Murphy on bench ?

I agree with the bolded bit, im unsure about the rest. Two things. I don't think Schmidt will want to fully rotate the team. Second I find it very hard to see Ruddock left out for the two big tests with his form this season.

wp_rathead · 22-10-2017 04:04PM

Ruddock has been brilliant- arguably should be at 6 over POM but I don't see Joe leaving POM out

RichieRich89 · 22-10-2017 07:45PM

1s: McGrath, Healy, McCall
2s: Scannell, Best, Cronin
3s: Furlong, Ryan, Bealham
4s, 5s: Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Roux
6s: Ruddock, McKeon
7s: Leavy, van der Flier, Reidy
8s: Conan, Murphy
9s: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
10s; Sexton, Carbery, Hanrahan/Byrne
11s: Stockdale, Ludik
12s: Scannell, Aki
13s: Henshaw, O'Loughlin
14s: Earls, Sweetnam
15s: Zebo, O'Halloran

Burkie1203 · 22-10-2017 07:49PM

RichieRich89 wrote: »

1s: McGrath, Healy, McCall
2s: Scannell, Best, Cronin
3s: Furlong, Ryan, Bealham
4s, 5s: Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Roux
6s: Ruddock, McKeon
7s: Leavy, van der Flier, Reidy
8s: Conan, Murphy
9s: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
10s; Sexton, Carbery, Hanrahan/Byrne
11s: Stockdale, Ludik
12s: Scannell, Aki
13s: Henshaw, O'Loughlin
14s: Earls, Sweetnam
15s: Zebo, O'Halloran

Cant believe you left out the OBriens and Dalys.

cantwbr1 · 22-10-2017 08:13PM

RichieRich89 wrote: »

1s: McGrath, Healy, McCall
2s: Scannell, Best, Cronin
3s: Furlong, Ryan, Bealham
4s, 5s: Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Roux
6s: Ruddock, McKeon
7s: Leavy, van der Flier, Reidy
8s: Conan, Murphy
9s: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
10s; Sexton, Carbery, Hanrahan/Byrne
11s: Stockdale, Ludik
12s: Scannell, Aki
13s: Henshaw, O'Loughlin
14s: Earls, Sweetnam
15s: Zebo, O'Halloran

On what planet is JJ H, who is playing B&I cup equal to Byrne who is playing European Championship

Clegg · 22-10-2017 08:17PM

Same planet where Eoin McKeon gets in ahead of the man who captained the Lions 3 months ago.

22-10-2017 08:26PM

cantwbr1 wrote: »

On what planet is JJ H, who is playing B&I cup equal to Byrne who is playing European Championship

This argument is nonsense. Same as when people were saying Keatley should have been ahead of Madigan because Madigan couldn't nail down 10 for leinster when it was between him and Gopperth.

50HX · 22-10-2017 08:32PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ruddock has been brilliant- arguably should be at 6 over POM but I don't see Joe leaving POM out

ruddock has been very good but more often than not when he gets a test game he never really nails it and holds onto it

agree don't see joe leaving POM out..and hard to blame him

The Pheasant2 · 22-10-2017 08:33PM

50HX wrote: »

ruddock has been very good but more often than not when he gets a test game he never really nails it and holds onto it

agree don't see joe leaving POM out..and hard to blame him

I'd disagree with that - 2014 SA test is a good example

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-10-2017 08:36PM

gleesonisgod wrote: »

Fullback and backrow are both very interesting atm.

We have three quality fb options atm with Payne out, and I'd agree that Zebo offers the most all round. TOH is the best going forward imo, and is decent under the high ball but his kicking game and ability to stand and create stuff at 1st/2nd receiver would not be on par with Carbs or Zeebs. If Carberry was as good under the highball as Zeebs I'd go with him as he looks excellent defensively and being an outhalf is the best creatively (although zeebs is also excellent in that area).

Agree fb is interesting. But 3 quality fb !?!?!?!?
We have none for me. Carbs may become one, but case surely unproven at the moment, but probably the most interesting of the bunch for the future, and possibly playing best as well.
Zeebs has improved but, like TOH is not international level 15. With Bob out, there simply isnt a top level experienced 15 available.

Erik Shin · 22-10-2017 08:37PM

Even with "Bob" there isn't a top level 15 available

50HX · 22-10-2017 08:38PM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I'd disagree with that - 2014 SA test is a good example

i'll put it another way

if every back rower is fit and you ran a poll would he be picked

.....in Joe we trust:D

turnikett1 · 22-10-2017 08:48PM

Tbh if anyone thinks Schmidt won't start a fit POM or SOB for South Africa they are having a laugh. I will eat my hat if he doesn't. Especially in favour of someone like McKeon.

Really bar the 11 and 13 jersey we know full well what the starting XV will be. It'll be the same for Argentina probably. Fiji is the experimental match, we can talk about all the Cooneys and McKeons and JJs we want then

Former Former · 22-10-2017 08:54PM

50HX wrote: »

ruddock has been very good but more often than not when he gets a test game he never really nails it and holds onto it

agree don't see joe leaving POM out..and hard to blame him

More often than not Ruddock gets injured shortly afterwards...

If everyone is fit, it will be POM, SOB, Stander. with VDF on the bench. I don't think there could be any real complaints. Stander isn't setting the world on fire but Conan isn't in the same class at all.

Ruddock is a useful bench option as he and Murphy are the most versatile, but VDF has earned a spot.

RichieRich89 · 22-10-2017 09:17PM

Has Schmidt started Stander at 8 at any time other than when he replaced Heaslip at short notice for the England game? I think he sees him as a blindside.

Burkie1203 · 22-10-2017 09:41PM

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Has Schmidt started Stander at 8 at any time other than when he replaced Heaslip at short notice for the England game? I think he sees him as a blindside.

No.

RichieRich89 · 22-10-2017 09:55PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

No.

Of course, you could argue that that's because of Heaslip's consistency. But even so, there's not much evidence that Schmidt likes Stander as a 8. Hopefully it'll be Conan anyway. He plays a much more nuanced, rounded style than Stander

Buer · 22-10-2017 10:04PM

turnikett1 wrote: »

Tbh if anyone thinks Schmidt won't start a fit POM or SOB for South Africa they are having a laugh. I will eat my hat if he doesn't.

Schmidt has left POM out of the team a number of times and even out of 23 in the past year despite being fit and available. With Heaslip looking like he's finished, POM is the likely beneficiary but it's hardly outlandish that he isn't in the team.

thomond2006 · 22-10-2017 10:14PM

Ignore list is useless if people keep quoting. Ta.

The Rape of Lucretia · 22-10-2017 10:52PM

Erik Shin wrote: »

Even with "Bob" there isn't a top level 15 available

At this stage of his career, great as he was, yes, thats probably the case.

Former Former · 23-10-2017 11:30AM

I don't think there were any major injury scares for the national team over the weekend?

Van der Flier went off but haven't heard any reports of it being serious. Sexton managed to get through 65 minutes without looking dazed so that's something.

And Best got some game time as well.

So Heaslip and Ringrose the only absentees for now? Payne unlikely, Kearney tbc.

thomond2006 · 23-10-2017 12:39PM

Niall Scannell going for thumb surgery. No timeframe for a return yet but I imagine he's out of the AIs. Pheck.

23-10-2017 12:49PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Niall Scannell going for thumb surgery. No timeframe for a return yet but I imagine he's out of the AIs. Pheck.

Best, Cronin and probably Dr. Tray.

gleesonisgod · 23-10-2017 01:25PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Agree fb is interesting. But 3 quality fb !?!?!?!?
We have none for me. Carbs may become one, but case surely unproven at the moment, but probably the most interesting of the bunch for the future, and possibly playing best as well.
Zeebs has improved but, like TOH is not international level 15. With Bob out, there simply isnt a top level experienced 15 available.

Zeebs is pretty good at wing for Ireland so has the experience, plus his best position is fb and last time he played the re for Ireland, he looked very good, albeit briefly.

TOH is consistently excellent for Connacht, one of the best fb's in the league, and like Zebo looked very good the last time he played fb internationally.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781