Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Even with "Bob" there isn't a top level 15 available

The Rape of Lucretia

gleesonisgod wrote: »

Fullback and backrow are both very interesting atm.

We have three quality fb options atm with Payne out, and I'd agree that Zebo offers the most all round. TOH is the best going forward imo, and is decent under the high ball but his kicking game and ability to stand and create stuff at 1st/2nd receiver would not be on par with Carbs or Zeebs. If Carberry was as good under the highball as Zeebs I'd go with him as he looks excellent defensively and being an outhalf is the best creatively (although zeebs is also excellent in that area).

Agree fb is interesting. But 3 quality fb !?!?!?!?
We have none for me. Carbs may become one, but case surely unproven at the moment, but probably the most interesting of the bunch for the future, and possibly playing best as well.
Zeebs has improved but, like TOH is not international level 15. With Bob out, there simply isnt a top level experienced 15 available.

The Pheasant2

50HX wrote: »

ruddock has been very good but more often than not when he gets a test game he never really nails it and holds onto it

agree don't see joe leaving POM out..and hard to blame him

I'd disagree with that - 2014 SA test is a good example

50HX

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ruddock has been brilliant- arguably should be at 6 over POM but I don't see Joe leaving POM out

ruddock has been very good but more often than not when he gets a test game he never really nails it and holds onto it

agree don't see joe leaving POM out..and hard to blame him

cantwbr1 wrote: »

On what planet is JJ H, who is playing B&I cup equal to Byrne who is playing European Championship

This argument is nonsense. Same as when people were saying Keatley should have been ahead of Madigan because Madigan couldn't nail down 10 for leinster when it was between him and Gopperth.

Clegg

Same planet where Eoin McKeon gets in ahead of the man who captained the Lions 3 months ago.

cantwbr1

RichieRich89 wrote: »

1s: McGrath, Healy, McCall
2s: Scannell, Best, Cronin
3s: Furlong, Ryan, Bealham
4s, 5s: Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Roux
6s: Ruddock, McKeon
7s: Leavy, van der Flier, Reidy
8s: Conan, Murphy
9s: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
10s; Sexton, Carbery, Hanrahan/Byrne
11s: Stockdale, Ludik
12s: Scannell, Aki
13s: Henshaw, O'Loughlin
14s: Earls, Sweetnam
15s: Zebo, O'Halloran

On what planet is JJ H, who is playing B&I cup equal to Byrne who is playing European Championship

RichieRich89 wrote: »

1s: McGrath, Healy, McCall
2s: Scannell, Best, Cronin
3s: Furlong, Ryan, Bealham
4s, 5s: Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Roux
6s: Ruddock, McKeon
7s: Leavy, van der Flier, Reidy
8s: Conan, Murphy
9s: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
10s; Sexton, Carbery, Hanrahan/Byrne
11s: Stockdale, Ludik
12s: Scannell, Aki
13s: Henshaw, O'Loughlin
14s: Earls, Sweetnam
15s: Zebo, O'Halloran

Cant believe you left out the OBriens and Dalys.

RichieRich89

1s: McGrath, Healy, McCall
2s: Scannell, Best, Cronin
3s: Furlong, Ryan, Bealham
4s, 5s: Toner, Henderson, Ryan, Dillane, Roux
6s: Ruddock, McKeon
7s: Leavy, van der Flier, Reidy
8s: Conan, Murphy
9s: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
10s; Sexton, Carbery, Hanrahan/Byrne
11s: Stockdale, Ludik
12s: Scannell, Aki
13s: Henshaw, O'Loughlin
14s: Earls, Sweetnam
15s: Zebo, O'Halloran

wp_rathead

Ruddock has been brilliant- arguably should be at 6 over POM but I don't see Joe leaving POM out

CIARAN_BOYLE

wp_rathead wrote: »

I'd have POM, CJ and JvdF with Conan on bench for the Argentina and SA games
We know SOB will start if fit for the Six Nations - but with his injuries he isnt guaranteed to be available so be good to leave him out for the Autumn Series so other options get a look in

Don't know about Fiji game, maybe Ruddock, Conan and O'Donnell with Reidy/ Jordi Murphy on bench ?

I agree with the bolded bit, im unsure about the rest. Two things. I don't think Schmidt will want to fully rotate the team. Second I find it very hard to see Ruddock left out for the two big tests with his form this season.

wp_rathead

I'd have POM, CJ and JvdF with Conan on bench for the Argentina and SA games
We know SOB will start if fit for the Six Nations - but with his injuries he isnt guaranteed to be available so be good to leave him out for the Autumn Series so other options get a look in

Don't know about Fiji game, maybe Ruddock, Conan and O'Donnell with Reidy/ Jordi Murphy on bench ?

Seems very familiar...can't quite put my finger on it though

gleesonisgod

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have Zebo in at FB personally, Carbery has a ways to go on him yet.

As far as backrow is concerned, Ruddock and VDF have put in the best performances so far followed by Conan and TOD. We haven't seen enough of SOB but he is well out in front of any other backrow in Ireland in terms of ability so he'll always come in from the cold if fit.

POM and Stander have no right to a starting position based on form but I'd imagine at least one will be in the starting 15.

As of right now I'd go SOB, VDF and Stander with Ruddock on the bench but I'd be sorely tested to have Conan in there and either move SOB to 7 and start POM at 6 or just go with SOB VDF Conan.

Stander is going to give everything but he is a shadow of the player of seasons past and hasn't evolved his game at all.

Fullback and backrow are both very interesting atm.

We have three quality fb options atm with Payne out, and I'd agree that Zebo offers the most all round. TOH is the best going forward imo, and is decent under the high ball but his kicking game and ability to stand and create stuff at 1st/2nd receiver would not be on par with Carbs or Zeebs. If Carberry was as good under the highball as Zeebs I'd go with him as he looks excellent defensively and being an outhalf is the best creatively (although zeebs is also excellent in that area).

I can see Robbie being used there somewhere down the road, maybe in the 6N, when both Aki and Ringrose are available.

For backrow I can't look beyond VDF, SOB, Conan.

VDF has been the form backrow over the last 6months, and is the best at shutting down opposition 7s. I think people don't put enough weight on the fact that he shut down Pocock and Hooper last year and got MOTM.

SOB as you say has to start if fit.

Then it's between Conan and CJ for 8. Conan offers so much more and has outplayed CJ for the last year. He's a better ball, carrier, brilliant offloader, and a better lineout option. I'd have POM on the bench as he's offered great impact coming the bench in the past. I'ts harsh on Ruddock, Leavy, TOD, and Cj, but five brilliant backrowers have to miss out on the squad.

wp_rathead

Ian Whitten's try was other worldly

Edit: wrong thread

Kearney is the sort of player that just needs one solid to good game and he can make his way back into the Ireland test team. I think he's probably pushed his luck as far as it can go at this stage though and a combination of no gametime and generally lack of hardiness will probably see him miss the AI's.

I'd have Zebo in at FB personally, Carbery has a ways to go on him yet.

As far as backrow is concerned, Ruddock and VDF have put in the best performances so far followed by Conan and TOD. We haven't seen enough of SOB but he is well out in front of any other backrow in Ireland in terms of ability so he'll always come in from the cold if fit.

POM and Stander have no right to a starting position based on form but I'd imagine at least one will be in the starting 15.

As of right now I'd go SOB, VDF and Stander with Ruddock on the bench but I'd be sorely tested to have Conan in there and either move SOB to 7 and start POM at 6 or just go with SOB VDF Conan.

Stander is going to give everything but he is a shadow of the player of seasons past and hasn't evolved his game at all.

What's going on with Porter, is he behind Bent or carrying a knock? Was surprised not to see him play Europe in the first two rounds.

Former Former

thomond2006 wrote: »

I really don't see RK as an automatic selection anymore, even for JS. He'll need to play next week.

It's all fitness dependent but, up to now at least, Kearney has always been in the same "if he's fit, he plays" bracket as Best, SOB, Sexton etc. Lack of game time has never counted against him before.

This might be the year that changes, or it might not.

thomond2006 wrote: »

I really don't see RK as an automatic selection anymore, even for JS. He'll need to play next week.

He certainly shouldn't be. I can't see why you'd pick him at all, there's no need to take the risk on a guy who has no form to speak of and can't stay fit.

Actually having looked at his Leinster profile, he's played four games for Leinster this calendar year, none of which were for 80 mins. Would be a farcical selection.

thomond2006 wrote: »

I really don't see RK as an automatic selection anymore, even for JS. He'll need to play next week.

I don't see how they can pick him given he can't make it through a game without injury. He needs more than one game, he needs a run of games.

Zebo is in great form, he's the man for the 15 jersey in the absence of Payne and Kearney. Worth getting Carberry or TOH some time there in case we lose Zebo as well.

thomond2006

Former Former wrote: »

I'd predict vs SA

Kearney
Earls Aki Henshaw Zebo
Sexton Murray
McGrath Best Furlong
Toner Hendo
POM SOB Stander

Cronin Healy Ryan Treadwell VDF Marmion Carbery Stockdale

Zebo to play FB if Kearney not fit. VDF to start if SOB not fit. I'm assuming Payne is out.

I really don't see RK as an automatic selection anymore, even for JS. He'll need to play next week.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He started at 7 at home against South Africa, not on tour.

He did both.

Fun fact: Ruddock has as many starts at openside against Tier 1 countries as TOD has.

Erik Shin wrote: »

If all are fit and well Ruddock makes an extended training squad like TOD, and then they get dropped when the 23 are named

Right. If they were all fit and well, but they're not.

Interested Observer wrote: »

Splitting hairs but I doubt Jordi is anywhere at the moment really. He's been grand since he came back but wouldn't be putting him into an international ahead of Leavy or TOD until he gets a few more games under his belt.

Ruddock certainly in the frame for 6, he was excellent towards the end of last season and it's carried on and then some this season.

No problem, he's started there against South Africa. Put in a damn fine performance too. Surprised you can't remember it.

Given Jordi started v SA and NZ last year I think thats were Joe sees him. Leavy hasnt got the starts Jordi has so its hard to know where he sits with Joe. ToD seems to be last resort with Joe

If all are fit and well Ruddock makes an extended training squad like TOD, and then they get dropped when the 23 are named

Erik Shin wrote: »

I didn't say he would start either... others have said he has played there and that Joe rates him... during a tour when even Ralla could have gotten a game..but go on..

Ruddock was on bench for a game v SA in 2014 and started because of illness to Henry at 7. He has played at 6 7 8 for ireland. He was captain of the summer tour. He is very much on the fringes if all players are available but his current form warrants consideration. Thats hardly an outlandish suggestion.

Erik Shin wrote: »

I didn't say he would start either... others have said he has played there and that Joe rates him... during a tour when even Ralla could have gotten a game..but go on..

He started at 7 at home against South Africa, not on tour.

But at the end of the day he's unlikely to ever need to play 7 because everyone else is so flexible.

If selections were made purely on form he'd be there. But they're not, and rightly so.

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Id day the order at 7 is SoB, VDF, Jordi, Ruddock. But I started the debate by saying Ruddock is in contention for the 6 shirt on form

Splitting hairs but I doubt Jordi is anywhere at the moment really. He's been grand since he came back but wouldn't be putting him into an international ahead of Leavy or TOD until he gets a few more games under his belt.

Ruddock certainly in the frame for 6, he was excellent towards the end of last season and it's carried on and then some this season.

Erik Shin wrote: »

I didn't say he would start either... others have said he has played there and that Joe rates him... during a tour when even Ralla could have gotten a game..but go on..

No problem, he's started there against South Africa. Put in a damn fine performance too. Surprised you can't remember it.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Noone has actually suggested Rhys Ruddock will start 7 at for Ireland at any point though, just someone claiming he can't cover both sides.

I didn't say he would start either... others have said he has played there and that Joe rates him... during a tour when even Ralla could have gotten a game..but go on..

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Noone has actually suggested Rhys Ruddock will start 7 at for Ireland at any point though, just someone claiming he can't cover both sides.

Id day the order at 7 is SoB, VDF, Jordi, Ruddock. But I started the debate by saying Ruddock is in contention for the 6 shirt on form