#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

kylith · 22-10-2017 11:02AM

Donal55 wrote: »

Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

Have you asked them if a man has ever made them feel intimidated, or has behaved inappropriately to them?

Donal55 · 22-10-2017 11:04AM

kylith wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

Your words; 'FOR NO GOOD REASON.'

backspin. · 22-10-2017 11:05AM

kylith wrote: »

It's sad when meeting a man that you need a guardian in case he attacks you.

He was protecting himself by offering one.
She didn't ask.

B0jangles · 22-10-2017 11:06AM

Donal55 wrote: »

Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

I'm sorry but you are 100% fooling yourself. I've never told my father about the various incidents of harassment/assault that have happened to me either - what would be the point?

Like Kylith says, he'd just be angry and upset and to no useful purpose.

silverharp · 22-10-2017 11:07AM

neonsofa wrote: »

I've had a group of men (in their 20s id say) walk behind me late at night and they actually discussed loudly how a "woman like her" shouldn't be out walking in the dark cause "men would be all over that". They found this hilarious. Discussed how if I was their "moth" they wouldn't even let me out in the daytime. All this kind of stuff. While I was alone and they were in a group behind me. They were clearly saying it loud enough for me to hear. God knows why, but they were getting some sort of entertainment from it. Was I supposed to turn around and tell them to **** off? Would they have accepted that and said "oh right sorry for that". Me against 7 or 8 men who were discussing me in that way? Sometimes you do have to just put safety first and hope they will go away and keep the key in your hand in case they don't. I get that the above example is more than just one man wolf whistling but sometimes one man can feel just as intimidating as a group, especially if they are being physical because you just don't know if It will escalate. It depends on the context.
And for what it's worth I personally don't mind the odd wolf whistle but that's not really the point I guess.

the male version of that is having a bunch of scobies pretend to mug or attack you. Ive had a group stand in front of me when I was jogging, Ive had someone pretend to punch me, I had to just grit my teeth and move on and I probably havnt seen the half of it as I tend to avoid rough areas. lets face it there is small minority that make it difficult for both sexes to go about their life in safely.

backspin. · 22-10-2017 11:09AM

professore wrote: »

You lost me at patriarchal. Come back to me when you can discuss topics free of dogmatic religious add ideological belief systems.

We certainly don't live in a patriarchy. If anything we live in a female-centric society these days. Women's issues and interests are paramount. Pretty much all institutions work in their favour.

backspin. · 22-10-2017 11:11AM

kylith wrote: »

The single biggest threat to women is men

Some men.

Wibbs · 22-10-2017 11:13AM

Macmillan150 wrote: »

Is there ANY woman here who hasn't been approached inappropriately in some way. The #metoo is to show that this is so so widespread. Men don't believe it unless it has happened to them. But men still don't believe it. The " not all men" thing is grand to hide behind and many men believe this stuff is done by only a few men. But it is done by many many many men.

OK.

Does my husband or dad know that I was 10 the first time a man grabbed my crotch ( or a thousand other incidences that happened along the way). No, because women do not talk about it.

So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Men don't think there's a problem. If there's no problem there's no need for s solution.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

Donal55 · 22-10-2017 11:14AM

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are 100% fooling yourself. I've never told my father about the various incidents of harassment/assault that have happened to me either - what would be the point?

Like Kylith says, he'd just be angry and upset and to no useful purpose.

They talk to their mother.

kylith · 22-10-2017 11:15AM

Donal55 wrote: »

Your words; 'FOR NO GOOD REASON.'

Because he wouldn't have been able to do about it, that was the reason.

Do you really think that a man sticking his hand up a woman's dress is no reason to get upset?

I was upset, and angry, and my then BF was all for going after the guy but, again, there really wouldn't have been anything he could have done.

B0jangles · 22-10-2017 11:15AM

Donal55 wrote: »

They talk to their mother.

And you think she repeats back everything they tell her to you? Even if they specifically ask her not to?

anewme · 22-10-2017 11:19AM

kylith wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

That's the reality of it. As teenagers, we'd make sure not to say anything in case we were not let out again.

One example, three of us were let off away with our friend's family who had a boat. A relation of the family came as well, who we quickly copped on was a major perve. One of the objectives of the Holiday became to avoid getting groped or cornered by the perve. We were approx. 15 and said pervo must have been mid 40's. Our friend did not tell her parents who were on the holiday either, in case there were no more holidays. Holiday with a trip hazard of avoiding a sleazy perve is much better then no holiday. It was never sn option for any if us to tell the adults.

That's only one example, another one, two of us sent off shopping with a friends sleazy uncle. Lots of questions about had we boyfriends and what we did with them and also what size bra we wore. Hmmm, think this is a bit suspect. Anyway, in we go to a newsagents where a girl working was bending over pricing items with one of those old fashioned pricing guns that stuck prices in everything. She was wearing jeans and had a big ass. Yer man sneaks up behind her and literally jumps on her and gropes her. She got an awful fright and jumped up. We did not tell the parents at all when we went back either!

kylith · 22-10-2017 11:19AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

So we don't say anything and you're giving out that men aren't psychic. But when we do speak out people say we're blowing things out of proportion and jumping on a bandwagon. Can you not see the issue with that.

Donal55 wrote: »

They talk to their mother.

Do you think we necessarily tell our mothers either? We don't, for the same reasons: they'd be upset and angry, and angry that there is nothing they can do about it.

B0jangles · 22-10-2017 11:21AM

Wibbs wrote: »

OK.
So men are ignorant because women don't tell them? Whose "fault" is that? Jesus this is like the stereotype of the man asking a woman "is everything OK?" to be met with either stoney silence or "if you cared you'd know" and an ever increasing scowl, because we're not mind readers.

Again Men™ aren't bloody psychic. And you wonder why so many don't take this seriously? Unreal. Frankly this nonsense is really starting to give me a pain in my arse.

Wibbs, poster after poster has decribed incidents where this kind of stuff has happened to them and you, and many other posters keep talking it down. That is a huge part of the problem that you cannot or will not acknowledge.

Women talk about this stuff all the time and either they aren't believed, they are exaggerating, it's actually worse for men, men get sexually assaulted too, #notallmen etc. etc. etc.

Is it any wonder women just don't tell the men in their lives about it any more - what's the bloody point?

professore · 22-10-2017 11:24AM

So basically it happens all the time to women but they NEVER tell the men in their lives about it. Well then they shouldn't be surprised that men don't believe it happens as much as you say it does here anonymously.

And consent classes? They are the stupidest idea ever. About as stupid and insulting as teaching adults it's wrong to steal, cheat, lie etc.

B0jangles · 22-10-2017 11:25AM

kylith wrote: »

Do you think we necessarily tell our mothers either? We don't, for the same reasons: they'd be upset and angry, and angry that there is nothing they can do about it.

As an aside I got talking to my own mother about this kind of stuff yesterday and we ended up swapping stories about the things that have happened to us, and you know, there really wasn't much difference between her youth and mine. It was quite depressing really.

B0jangles · 22-10-2017 11:27AM

professore wrote: »

So basically it happens all the time to women but they NEVER tell the men in their lives about it. Well then they shouldn't be surprised that men don't believe it happens as much as you say it does here anonymously.

And consent classes? They are the stupidest idea ever. About as stupid and insulting as teaching adults it's wrong to steal, cheat, lie etc.

Lol, read the thread.

Women aren't believed when they do tell, so after a while you learn not to waste the time and effort. Problem goes right back to being ignored, everyone's happy!

take everything · 22-10-2017 11:28AM

Good bit by Katie Glass on this in the Sunday Times today

anewme · 22-10-2017 11:29AM

B0jangles wrote: »

As an aside I got talking to my own mother about this kind of stuff yesterday and we ended up swapping stories about the things that have happened to us, and you know, there really wasn't much difference between her youth and mine. It was quite depressing really.

I also thought if all the things that had happened to me from the ages of about 13-14 to current today 40's. , where you still get incidents. I must have about 40 incidents or even more, some mild and even funny but some very serious and dangerous.

Only thing is now I'm better equipped to deal with. Feel sorry for my two little nieces.

suicide_circus · 22-10-2017 11:29AM

kylith wrote: »

Hahahahahahaha

Do you think I go telling my dad when some sleazebag's stuck his hand up my dress in a pub? What would be the point? What good would it do? He'd be angry and upset for no good reason.

Have you asked them if a man has ever made them feel intimidated, or has behaved inappropriately to them?

You've clearly been through a lot and have come out the other side understandably broken and bitter.

neonsofa · 22-10-2017 11:29AM

silverharp wrote: »

the male version of that is having a bunch of scobies pretend to mug or attack you. Ive had a group stand in front of me when I was jogging, Ive had someone pretend to punch me, I had to just grit my teeth and move on and I probably havnt seen the half of it as I tend to avoid rough areas. lets face it there is small minority that make it difficult for both sexes to go about their life in safely.

And just like me, you didn't tell them to **** off (or maybe you did?) you just grit your teeth and move on for your own safety. That was my point, it's not always easy to confront that kind of behaviour. I wasn't saying it was a scenario exclusive to my sex/gender. I was pointing out how its not always as easy as saying "well just tell them to stop".

B0jangles · 22-10-2017 11:32AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

You've clearly been through a lot and have come out the other side understandably broken and bitter.

Aaaaaand, there it is.

If all else fails you're a broken and bitter harpy who just HATES ALL MEN.

Anything to avoid acknowledging that there is a problem.

anewme · 22-10-2017 11:33AM

When you have men believing that young girls (teenagers) from a very young age set out to manipulate adult men using sex, this kind of behaviour is condoned instead of being stamped out.

sonic85 · 22-10-2017 11:33AM

What do you want us to do about it - serious question? Can the women on the thread actually give solutions to this in a clear and concise way?

I don't do pubs or clubs anymore so I don't see some of the drunken sh!t that happens but in my everyday life I haven't seen much in the way of the harassment that women say they've endured. All I can say from my own point of view is if my sister or mother told me about something that happened to them and I knew who did it they'd never lay their hand on another woman again

HalloweenJack · 22-10-2017 11:33AM

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

The other side is the undermining the accused right to a fair defense.

How so? The people I've seen posting it haven't been naming the responsible party or even talking about their experience, just drawing attention to the fact that it happens and I think that's a good thing.

I haven't read every single "me too" post/tweet so I don't know, I'm just going off the ones I've seen.

professore · 22-10-2017 11:33AM

B0jangles wrote: »

professore wrote: »

So basically it happens all the time to women but they NEVER tell the men in their lives about it. Well then they shouldn't be surprised that men don't believe it happens as much as you say it does here anonymously.

And consent classes? They are the stupidest idea ever. About as stupid and insulting as teaching adults it's wrong to steal, cheat, lie etc.

Lol, read the thread.

Women aren't believed when they do tell, so after a while you learn not to waste the time and effort. Problem goes right back to being ignored, everyone's happy!

I'm 46. My mother has told me stuff about creepy men. Another poster talked about a creepy uncle. Do you really believe I would believe my brother over my daughters? Really?????

I would like to think if any man ever tried weird **** with my wife or daughters they would tell me. In fact I'd be extremely disappointed in them if they didn't. And they have on a few occasions.

No one is saying this doesn't happen. Of course it does. What I am saying is by saying nothing you are part of the problem.

Wibbs · 22-10-2017 11:34AM

B0jangles wrote: »

Wibbs, poster after poster has decribed incidents where this kind of stuff has happened to them and you, and many other posters keep talking it down.

This is also becoming a pain in my arse. Please point out where I talked any poster's experiences down. Once will do, or stop lying about what I've said or haven't said. You're not the only poster who has come out with this kind of misrepresentation on this score. Though colour me shocked.

Is it any wonder women just don't tell the men in their lives about it any more - what's the bloody point?

Apparently they never or very rarely tell men about all these threats and assaults. It's not just a recent thing, even your mother's experiences mirrored your own. What's the bloody point is an easy out and again it's Men's™ fault, even though apparently Women™ don't say anything and haven't for generations. Though again that's hardly accurate, certainly in the last twenty odd years. Society is constantly being reminded how women are near constant victims of sexual harassment and assault and sexism and so forth. It's a mainstay of western society and extremely so in the media.

neonsofa · 22-10-2017 11:35AM

professore wrote: »

I'm 46. My mother has told me stuff about creepy men. Another poster talked about a creepy uncle. Do you really believe I would believe my brother over my daughters? Really?????

I would like to think if any man ever tried weird **** with my wife or daughters they would tell me. In fact I'd be extremely disappointed in them if they didn't. And they have on a few occasions.

No one is saying this doesn't happen. Of course it does. What I am saying is by saying nothing you are part of the problem.

By saying nothing to her dad?

suicide_circus · 22-10-2017 11:35AM

B0jangles wrote: »

Aaaaaand, there it is.

If all else fails you're a broken and bitter harpy who just HATES ALL MEN.

Anything to avoid acknowledging that there is a problem.

Can't both things be true? Although I never used the word harpy or even implied it, you added that yourself.

Wibbs · 22-10-2017 11:37AM

anewme wrote: »

When you have men believing that young girls (teenagers) from a very young age set out to manipulate adult men using sex, this kind of behaviour is condoned instead of being stamped out.

All men? Most men? Some men? Christ almighty. This polarised nonsense is getting beyond a joke at this stage.

#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

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