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Disobeying Safety Warnings - Should it be crime/punishable offence?

1246

Comments

  • #92
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,266 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Matilda Raspy Nutmeg wrote: »
    I doubt the surfers were going to invent or discover anything useful when they were out.

    They discovered that heading out on the one day in the year that rescue services were on red alert had consequences.


  • #93
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,084 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Shemale wrote: »
    Depending on the conditions? Fastnet Lighthouse recorded gusts of 103 knots just after 9am.

    The guys on the bits of fibreglass with sails in swirling winds peaking at 190 kmph in open sea near rocks might be at less risk, given the two were rescued because they were 'in difficulty' I dont agree, but for the person on land that rang there would have been 2 more fatalities

    I 100% agree that ME should continue to issue easy to understand, nationwide colour coded warnings.
    Many people are obviously unable to understand basic concepts such as location, distance, time, etc.
    Did someone earlier say that 14% of the population were effectively illiterate?
    Shemale wrote: »
    Apart from the coastguard and RNLI crew that stopped them from drowing.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/hurricane-ophelia/coast-guard-and-rnli-crews-rescue-two-kitesurfers-in-difficulty-off-east-coast-36231213.html

    They weren't drowning; they sailed in by themselves.
    Most people who have read the articles about the FA (False Alert), even those in favour of criminalising this behaviour, have now been able to understand this.


  • #94
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    RustyNut wrote: »
    If we are going to charge, fine people who ignore weather warnings then surly the first people to be gone after are motorists who drive during the warning . The facts speak for themselves, if nobody went out in their cars during this red warning then nobody would have been killed.

    Do the fcuk them wind surfers (not kite surfers) people think that the people who end up under a fallen tree should be left to die or if they are rescued, recovered should their families be sent the bill or a big fine?

    Just for clarity the wind surfers were never in any danger, didn't require rescue and didn't call out any rescue services.

    oh right.....so the rescue service should only turn out when the people who need rescuing make direct contact.....any calls from others should just be ignored?

    btw, the people killed were killed in chance events......falling trees. They didn't drive out and put themselves directly in harms way by parking under a tree, unlike the surfers and swimmers who 'went to the hazard' by going into the heavy seas.

    Maybe they were keen wind surfers and swimmers - but would there have been any harm in giving it a miss for just one day?


  • #95
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,039 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Absolutely.

    I've heard a lady argue that

    1) it is all about personal responsibility, that she knows when it is safe and when its not. Well, i reckon everyone who has ever gotten into difficulty at sea thought the exact same ****ing thing. And what's more, every single one of them blessed their luck when they saw those rescuers coming to help them. Here's an idea - why not interview those that were rescued. It'll provide some humble advice to those who think they know better.

    Its the same argument people say about drink driving. "Sure, I know when I'm okay to drive and when I am not. Fecking Nanny State!". Then they go on to wrap their car around someone else's and cause the Emergency services to witness the aftermath.

    2) the lifeguards are "volunteers" and therefore they "don't have to" to go to rescue someone in difficulty. Rescuers give up their free time to help everyone, that's what they do. They are literally supposed to stay there and watch people drown? Madness.

    Those arguing against should sit the **** down and leave it for one day - that's all. Have you absolutely nothing else going on in your life that you could do instead? They are jeopardising their lives and the lives of others. So what if it is overcaution. The last time we had a hurricane like this it was over 50 years ago. Its hardly inhibiting on their day to day lives. It is complete arrogance and recklessness in my honest opinion.

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #96
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,084 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Maybe they were keen wind surfers and swimmers - but would there have been any harm in giving it a miss for just one day?

    I agree that the swimmers should have either skipped or if they really wanted to gone out earlier in the morning like the lads in Greystones.
    Jumping in from the 10m board strikes me that they were attention/thrill seekers though and not one of the 365ers.

    From what I have read and the pictures I've seen, conditions for the windsurfers in Louth weren't as severe.
    They weren't looking for attention and wind surfing is a sport that is designed for windy conditions.

    So I would differentiate between the 2 incidents.


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  • #97
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,498 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Whatever about prosecution, under no circumstances should they be able to claim a penny of insurance from any policy, whether it be that of a local council, park or any type of public facility due to an 'accident' caused by their own stupidity/arrogance/general fúckwittery.

    Some people are more stupid than you can possibly imagine - and I think they are getting worse.


  • #98
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Jawgap wrote: »
    oh right.....so the rescue service should only turn out when the people who need rescuing make direct contact.....any calls from others should just be ignored?

    btw, the people killed were killed in chance events......falling trees. They didn't drive out and put themselves directly in harms way by parking under a tree, unlike the surfers and swimmers who 'went to the hazard' by going into the heavy seas.

    Maybe they were keen wind surfers and swimmers - but would there have been any harm in giving it a miss for just one day?

    Well not exactly true.

    There was a red warning issued and people were told to stay indoors. They took the decision. (I do not know the exact circumstances, maybe they had to go, maybe they were forced to, I am not commenting on the particular cases, rather the argument can be made)

    Of course the two are not the same, its all about degrees. Once you go down the road of criminalising peoples decisions it is very difficult to know where to draw the line.

    I am sure the wind surfers felt that they were well in control and taking advantage of the good conditions (for them) earlier in the morning. On the other hand the red warning was issued for everyone.


  • #99
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    josip wrote: »
    I agree that the swimmers should have either skipped or if they really wanted to gone out earlier in the morning like the lads in Greystones.
    Jumping in from the 10m board strikes me that they were attention/thrill seekers though and not one of the 365ers.

    From what I have read and the pictures I've seen, conditions for the windsurfers in Louth weren't as severe.
    They weren't looking for attention and wind surfing is a sport that is designed for windy conditions.

    So I would differentiate between the 2 incidents.

    I live on that coast and went down to look at / marvel at the sea. I've never seen waves as big on the east coast, and I work in a marine-related area and am an open-water swimmer so would have some familiarity with the waters around the coast.

    I can understand why they went out - it must have been absolutely thrilling, and a pure adrenalin rush - but I just think it was pure selfishness. If they'd actually needed rescuing (they say they didn't) you wouldn't just have been talking about a heli crew and an RNLI boat, you'd have been talking about a fairly major search because anyone going in the water wouldn't be easy to find - their selfishness potentially put dozens of other lives (mostly volunteers) at risk.

    Also, that type of stupidity potentially encourages others, less able, wind surfers or kite surfers on to the water who might think they are as good as those lads but who find the conditions beyond them.


  • #100
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,084 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Jawgap wrote: »
    I live on that coast and went down to look at / marvel at the sea. I've never seen waves as big on the east coast, and I work in a marine-related area and am an open-water swimmer so would have some familiarity with the waters around the coast.

    ...

    I also swim off the east coast and went down to the beach for a look (in the morning) the same as you.
    But according to the RED alert advice which some posters on here want to be the basis for prosecutions, both you and I are just as guilty of an offence as the wind surfers, and even the idiots in Galway.

    It would be impossible to frame legislation that would be both effective and not overreaching.
    I would prefer a system whereby during red alerts there can be no expectation of rescue for people who needlessly put themselves at risk.

    When I go out in our dinghy/hill walking/swimming I go out with the mindset that only I am responsible for my own well being.
    If a situation arises whereby I need the help of the emergency services, then it's quite likely I won't be able to anyway (eg. incapacitated/out of coverage) and will die anyway.


  • #101
    Lt Dan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Lt Dan


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    If there is a red alert in place, idiots who ignore the warning and place themselves in danger requiring the emergency services should be prosecuted no If's or Buts.

    Thankfully, you will never get near legislating

    The circumstances surrounding the reasons for ignoring a warning may be strong enough to demand that a defence is allowed in such a prosecution as oppose to an offence that is of strict liability (ie no excuse .defence), so no, it is not a case of "ifs" and "buts"

    Take into account those coming back from work in regions where it was expected to peak later in the day , but they get caught out. Just remember, despite the warnings, many people did work on Monday till right up till 12 noon

    Emergencies like rushing to hospital or to their family

    For every incident like the clown in Galway pier, one has the more understandable scenarios where the journey was essential.


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  • #102
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I certainly think that during the red alert the rescue services should not be expected to put their lives at risk to help those that disregarded the alert.

    It is almost impossible to stop people doing things like that, but as has been mentioned, it is when they potentially put other people at risk that the problem arises.

    I think it should be made clear that whilst the state will try its best during these alerts, it may well be that anybody in danger may well have to wait until the storm has passed before help can come to them.


  • #103
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    josip wrote: »
    I also swim off the east coast and went down to the beach for a look (in the morning) the same as you.
    But according to the RED alert advice which some posters on here want to be the basis for prosecutions, both you and I are just as guilty of an offence as the wind surfers, and even the idiots in Galway.

    It would be impossible to frame legislation that would be both effective and not overreaching.
    I would prefer a system whereby during red alerts there can be no expectation of rescue for people who needlessly put themselves at risk.

    When I go out in our dinghy/hill walking/swimming I go out with the mindset that only I am responsible for my own well being.
    If a situation arises whereby I need the help of the emergency services, then it's quite likely I won't be able to anyway (eg. incapacitated/out of coverage) and will die anyway.

    Well in my defence.....I stayed well up on the dunes :D

    I don't think you could make it a criminal offence and I doubt the rescuers would agree with the idea of not turning out.

    I do think that once someone's sorry arse has been dragged out the totality of their actions should be assessed and if they've been stupidly reckless beyond reason they should be handed a bill for the call out. They can pay it off in instalments if necessary......and if they want to engage in that kind of behaviour let them take out the requisite insurance, like an "on the water" equivalent of avalanche insurance, that way the community of risk-takers can carry the risk instead of the rest of us.


  • #104
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Matilda Raspy Nutmeg wrote: »
    I doubt the surfers were going to invent or discover anything useful when they were out.

    People probably said that about Benjamin Franklin and flying his kite during a lighting storm.


  • #105
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,266 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    RustyNut wrote: »
    People probably said that about Benjamin Franklin and flying his kite during a lighting storm.

    :rolleyes:

    Again. How are these surfer lads advancing science?

    Will their findings be published soon?


  • #106
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Jawgap wrote: »
    I live on that coast and went down to look at / marvel at the sea. I've never seen waves as big on the east coast, and I work in a marine-related area and am an open-water swimmer so would have some familiarity with the waters around the coast.

    I can understand why they went out - it must have been absolutely thrilling, and a pure adrenalin rush - but I just think it was pure selfishness. If they'd actually needed rescuing (they say they didn't) you wouldn't just have been talking about a heli crew and an RNLI boat, you'd have been talking about a fairly major search because anyone going in the water wouldn't be easy to find - their selfishness potentially put dozens of other lives (mostly volunteers) at risk.

    Also, that type of stupidity potentially encourages others, less able, wind surfers or kite surfers on to the water who might think they are as good as those lads but who find the conditions beyond them.

    First of all if the kite surfers had been in difficulty they likely would have been separated from their equipment and then they wouldn't have even been visible from the shore since they would be in the water with only their heads above the surface. So if they actually were in difficulty nobody would have known and nobody would have called 999, unless they brought someone with then who was staying on the shore. They would have been on their own and they knew this. If anyone should been fined or penalised it should be the clueless busy body on the shore who was totally unable to assess the situation properly but still panicked and called 999 before the storm had even reached that part of the country. People need to use their heads in these cases. Those guys were well equipped to deal with the conditions they were out in and made their own way to shore since obviously they had read the forecasts and were keeping an eye on the time. That's what you do in windsurfing / kite surfing, it's not like hurling or football where anyone can just go buy the gear and join in. It requires a lot of training and practice and money to get to a level where you can partake safely without qualified supervision. This commonly held idea that these people (and others who engage in extreme sports) are wreckless idiots who put themselves and others at risk for cheap thrills is, in most cases, totally false and it pisses off to be honest. I'm sick of reading abusive comments online from idiots who have no idea what they are talking about. Several times I've come in from rough shore breaks at lahinch, fanore, mulloughmore etc in stormy conditions only to be lectured by some twat saying I shouldn't be out there who knows about as much about surfing as my grandmother does.

    Get qualified as a beach lifeguard and surf instructor or join the coast guard then you get to have opinion.


  • #107
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Why were the Good Samaritans on the beach in Louth if it was allegedly that bad in the first place?
    Shouldn't they have also heeded the Code Red Warning?


  • #108
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Why were the Good Samaritans on the beach in Louth if it was allegedly that bad in the first place?
    Shouldn't they have also heeded the Code Red Warning?

    Perhaps their house overlooked the beach?? There are plenty around Ireland that do.


  • #109
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    MadYaker wrote: »
    First of all if the kite surfers had been in difficulty they likely would have been separated from their equipment and then they wouldn't have even been visible from the shore since they would be in the water with only their heads above the surface. So if they actually were in difficulty nobody would have known and nobody would have called 999, unless they brought someone with then who was staying on the shore. They would have been on their own and they knew this. If anyone should been fined or penalised it should be the clueless busy body on the shore who was totally unable to assess the situation properly but still panicked and called 999 before the storm had even reached that part of the country. People need to use their heads in these cases. Those guys were well equipped to deal with the conditions they were out in and made their own way to shore since obviously they had read the forecasts and were keeping an eye on the time. That's what you do in windsurfing / kite surfing, it's not like hurling or football where anyone can just go buy the gear and join in. It requires a lot of training and practice and money to get to a level where you can partake safely without qualified supervision. This commonly held idea that these people (and others who engage in extreme sports) are wreckless idiots who put themselves and others at risk for cheap thrills is, in most cases, totally false and it pisses off to be honest. I'm sick of reading abusive comments online from idiots who have no idea what they are talking about. Several times I've come in from rough shore breaks at lahinch, fanore, mulloughmore etc in stormy conditions only to be lectured by some twat saying I shouldn't be out there who knows about as much about surfing as my grandmother does.

    Get qualified as a beach lifeguard and surf instructor or join the coast guard then you get to have opinion.

    I didn't realise they had to pass a test and show their qualifications before going on the water. Is there a adjudicator on each beach or do you apply prior to it.

    Funny, that these guys are so well versed in the water and the wind etc, yet completely ignored the advice of experts on the basis that they know better. I think you are on to something though. We should let every person independently review the situation rather than base our actions based on experts.

    At the end of the day, everyone was told to stay indoors and not only did they not follow the advice, but actively put themselves in a dangerous situation. If they are such experts and respect the sea so much then they should be aware that they could potentially cause rescuers to risk their own lives should something go wrong. Purely for selfish reasons.


  • #110
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Perhaps their house overlooked the beach?? There are plenty around Ireland that do.

    See, im of the view that if someone gets in difficulty in Brittas Bay in May, June, July, Aug, ill try and help them out or call the RNLI.

    If however someone wants to go surfing or canoeing in the middle of a well forecasted hurricane ill leave them to it.


  • #111
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I didn't realise they had to pass a test and show their qualifications before going on the water. Is there a adjudicator on each beach or do you apply prior to it.

    Funny, that these guys are so well versed in the water and the wind etc, yet completely ignored the advice of experts on the basis that they know better. I think you are on to something though. We should let every person independently review the situation rather than base our actions based on experts.

    At the end of the day, everyone was told to stay indoors and not only did they not follow the advice, but actively put themselves in a dangerous situation. If they are such experts and respect the sea so much then they should be aware that they could potentially cause rescuers to risk their own lives should something go wrong. Purely for selfish reasons.

    Jesus. They didn't ignore the advice of anyone. They were out in the morning before the storm even reached that part of the country, they made their way in on their own before the conditions worsened. That wasn't by accident. If it was so dangerous then how was it safe for people to be walking the coastline?


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  • #112
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Scuba divers heading out in boats regularly contact the coast guard, before setting out, leaving them know where they are and when they expect to be back and they radio when they get back to let them know everything went as planned.
    They don't mind doing this at all. And I know because I have made those calls.

    Fair enough, scuba divers generally do call ahead.

    However, I meant the likes of surfers, windsurfers, kayakers etc. Some posters think that it is standard practice to tell the coast guard or RNLI that you're heading out, which it isn't. The same goes for most small craft.


  • #113
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Jesus. They didn't ignore the advice of anyone. They were out in the morning before the storm even reached that part of the country, they made their way in on their own before the conditions worsened. That wasn't by accident. If it was so dangerous then how was it safe for people to be walking the coastline?

    What time was the red level issued? I am not saying they were incorrect in their opinion, but if we are going to have a national emergency panel then it is the responsibility of each person to adhere to the advice.

    As was previously mentioned, I am sure these guys knew what they were doing, but them being out there gives others the go-ahead to head out as well.

    How do you know, or more importantly how was the person on the coastline supposed to know that these guys were experts and had thought of everything?


  • #114
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    It would be almost impossible to prosecute anyone for such an offence.

    The lads windsurfing in Dundalk were highly experienced and were out on the water hours before the storm had even reached the south of the country. They were in a far better position to judge what the risks were than some busy body on the beach.

    I'm not condoning the people swimming at Salthill or eejits taking selfies on a pier in a storm, just saying we can't regulate everything.
    There was a country red alert.
    You say the windsurfers were highly experienced. How do you know?
    How can observers or the emergency services know windsurfers are highly experienced or not highly experienced?

    When people decide they are better judges it becomes a problem. The advice was to stay indoors. People ignored that and there were casualties. Just because the windsurfers were not casualties does not mean they were right.


  • #115
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Jesus. They didn't ignore the advice of anyone. They were out in the morning before the storm even reached that part of the country, they made their way in on their own before the conditions worsened. That wasn't by accident. If it was so dangerous then how was it safe for people to be walking the coastline?

    Well they did actually. The RNLI's advice, published on Sunday, was to be careful and stay away from the coast.......but sure what would they know :rolleyes:


  • #116
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Fair enough, scuba divers generally do call ahead.

    However, I meant the likes of surfers, windsurfers, kayakers etc. Some posters think that it is standard practice to tell the coast guard or RNLI that you're heading out, which it isn't. The same goes for most small craft.

    I wouldn't say it's standard practice but I've done it in the past and so have many others, usually for events where a large number of people will be involved. If I had been going surfing on monday near a densely populated area I would have notified the coast guard in advance. These guys probably should have done that.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    Well they did actually. The RNLI's advice, published on Sunday, was to be careful and stay away from the coast.......but sure what would they know :rolleyes:

    They interpreted that advice differently, they didn't ignore it. They didn't stay out during the storm, they came in before the storm reached them. The RNLI and CG advised people to be careful and those guys took all necessary precautions and as a result they were never in any real danger. I don't know these guys personally but I've read posts by them in facebook groups that I'm also in. It may sound arrogant but to be honest someone who has years of experience and multiple relevant qualifications is justified in interpreting weather warnings differently to joe soap who knows nothing.


  • #117
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,266 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    MadYaker wrote: »
    These guys probably should have done that.

    Yeah, as if the coastguard would have said 'grand job lads, work away'...

    What part of the Coastguard's FB warning did they not understand?

    ...'strongly advises the public to stay away from coastal areas' (not just 'be careful')

    They have plenty other days in the year to play around out there.

    No means no.
    No discussion or interpretation. Just no.


  • #118
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Yeah, as if the coastguard would have said 'grand job lads, work away'...

    What part of the Coastguard's FB warning did they not understand?

    ...'strongly advises the public to stay away from coastal areas' (not just 'be careful')

    They have plenty other days in the year to play around out there.

    No means no.
    No discussion or interpretation. Just no.

    That's pretty much what they've said to me when I've called them to warn them about potential FAs.


  • #119
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    diomed wrote: »
    You say the windsurfers were highly experienced. How do you know?

    I don't know them personally but I would have a good idea who the are. There aren't all that many windsurfers in Ireland.
    How can observers or the emergency services know
    windsurfers are highly experienced or not highly experienced?

    Once the emergency services are called they are going to head out to investigate.

    As for ordinary observers, its worth referring again to post #50
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105004104&postcount=50
    The emergency services were called because the observer thought they were being irresponsible, not because they believed them to be in danger.


  • #120
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    MadYaker wrote: »
    I wouldn't say it's standard practice but I've done it in the past and so have many others, usually for events where a large number of people will be involved. If I had been going surfing on monday near a densely populated area I would have notified the coast guard in advance. These guys probably should have done that.



    They interpreted that advice differently, they didn't ignore it. They didn't stay out during the storm, they came in before the storm reached them. The RNLI and CG advised people to be careful and those guys took all necessary precautions and as a result they were never in any real danger. I don't know these guys personally but I've read posts by them in facebook groups that I'm also in. It may sound arrogant but to be honest someone who has years of experience and multiple relevant qualifications is justified in interpreting weather warnings differently to joe soap who knows nothing.

    Which bit of 'stay from the coasts' did they struggle to understand and interpret differently.

    Look, I get it. It was an andrenalin rush to be out in those conditions, but it was also reckless.

    Did they have a marine vhf with them?


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  • #121
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    It would be almost impossible to prosecute anyone for such an offence.

    The lads windsurfing in Dundalk were highly experienced and were out on the water hours before the storm had even reached the south of the country. They were in a far better position to judge what the risks were than some busy body on the beach.

    I'm not condoning the people swimming at Salthill or eejits taking selfies on a pier in a storm, just saying we can't regulate everything.

    Yeah it's not as if "highly experienced" people have never gotten into trouble because they have misread the conditions. :rolleyes:
    Extreme sports is littered with examples of "highly experienced" people who arrogantly thought they knew better and they could handle things.

    And maybe someday you might be glad of a busy body raising the alarm and saving you or your mates sorry ar**es.
    MadYaker wrote: »
    First of all if the kite surfers had been in difficulty they likely would have been separated from their equipment and then they wouldn't have even been visible from the shore since they would be in the water with only their heads above the surface. So if they actually were in difficulty nobody would have known and nobody would have called 999, unless they brought someone with then who was staying on the shore. They would have been on their own and they knew this. If anyone should been fined or penalised it should be the clueless busy body on the shore who was totally unable to assess the situation properly but still panicked and called 999 before the storm had even reached that part of the country. People need to use their heads in these cases. Those guys were well equipped to deal with the conditions they were out in and made their own way to shore since obviously they had read the forecasts and were keeping an eye on the time. That's what you do in windsurfing / kite surfing, it's not like hurling or football where anyone can just go buy the gear and join in. It requires a lot of training and practice and money to get to a level where you can partake safely without qualified supervision. This commonly held idea that these people (and others who engage in extreme sports) are wreckless idiots who put themselves and others at risk for cheap thrills is, in most cases, totally false and it pisses off to be honest. I'm sick of reading abusive comments online from idiots who have no idea what they are talking about. Several times I've come in from rough shore breaks at lahinch, fanore, mulloughmore etc in stormy conditions only to be lectured by some twat saying I shouldn't be out there who knows about as much about surfing as my grandmother does.

    Get qualified as a beach lifeguard and surf instructor or join the coast guard then you get to have opinion.

    So your advice is next time someone on the shore spots something that they think may be wrong, is to ignore it if they haven't done some sort of expert certification on it ?

    And speaking of idiots what about the idiots who always think they know best, who over estimate their ability and under estimate the power of nature resulting in some people in rescue services having to risk their lives to save them.

    What do you think of the sailors of that yacht that it appears had to be rescued twice?
    I wonder if they thought they were experts also. :rolleyes:

    I recall a story from years ago in Florida where a pilot filed a flight plan, diverted to another destination and never closed the flight plan.
    Rescue services were put on stand by and started searching.
    Somebody spotted aircraft at airport and guy was found.
    He got slapped with cost of rescue and had to pay thousands of dollars.
    He wasn't reckless but forgot to close flight plan.

    If you are reckless eejit then you should have to foot the bill for your rescue at the very least.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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