Disobeying Safety Warnings - Should it be crime/punishable offence?

AudreyHepburn · 17-10-2017 08:36PM #1

Now that Hurricane has passed there is much discussion about the many people who not only put their own lives at risk by disobeying Met Eireann's safety warnings but also the lives of the rescue personnel sent out after them.

I personally see such actions as selfish and idiotic and I firmly believe that anyone who deliberately disobeys safety warnings to go swimming, kite surfing etc and subsequently calls out the emergency services to help them should at the very least be fined.

The Rescue 116 tragedy showed us exactly how dangerous the job our rescue services do at the best of times - the idea that people would have so little disregard for them that they willingly disobey safety warnings boils my blood.

What do my fellow boardsies think?

dudara · 17-10-2017 08:39PM

Not a criminal offense IMO, that's too nanny state. But neither should they expect any assistance

Hitman3000 · 17-10-2017 08:40PM

If there is a red alert in place, idiots who ignore the warning and place themselves in danger requiring the emergency services should be prosecuted no If's or Buts.

corner of hells · 17-10-2017 08:41PM

Possibly tattoo the word "idiot" on their forehead as a reminder for them.

17-10-2017 08:42PM

Those knobheads that went kite surfing in Co Louth surfing should have to pay the call out charge for the Emergency Services. I know it's not legal right now but legislation should be made going forward that if a Red Alert is put in place and you ignore it, you are responsible for call out charges and maybe even fines.

AudreyHepburn · 17-10-2017 08:42PM

dudara wrote: »

Not a criminal offense IMO, that's too nanny state. But neither should they expect any assistance

Ok perhaps it shouldn't be a criminal offense but I do still think the Emergency Services should be able to issue a fine or a bill for the call out.

Hitman3000 · 17-10-2017 08:43PM

dudara wrote:

Not a criminal offense IMO, that's too nanny state. But neither should they expect any assistance

I'm a former member of the emergency services no member would willing refuse to come to someone's aid. The issue is putting oneself in a position of danger when specially warned not to thereby endangering the life of rescue service members.

17-10-2017 08:44PM

dudara wrote: »

Not a criminal offense IMO, that's too nanny state. But neither should they expect any assistance

You have to try save lives regardless. That's the job of emergency services. That's why we try to save suicidal people.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

If there is a red alert in place, idiots who ignore the warning and place themselves in danger requiring the emergency services should be prosecuted no If's or Buts.

Somewhat agree with this. Prosecuted or fined or made to pay a call out charge. All should be at least debated anyway.

Arsemageddon · 17-10-2017 08:45PM

It would be almost impossible to prosecute anyone for such an offence.

The lads windsurfing in Dundalk were highly experienced and were out on the water hours before the storm had even reached the south of the country. They were in a far better position to judge what the risks were than some busy body on the beach.

I'm not condoning the people swimming at Salthill or eejits taking selfies on a pier in a storm, just saying we can't regulate everything.

HeidiHeidi · 17-10-2017 08:46PM

Trouble is, those surfers weren't in trouble. Some people on land thought they were and made the call, and the emergency agencies responded.

The row has developed into should they be entitled to go out surfing (which was within their capabilities in the conditions at the time) even though there was a red alert in place?

The Undecided One · 17-10-2017 08:46PM

I disagree with bills for emergency call outs but I would support the idea of ‚You ignore a warning, we ignore your plight’ kinda rule.

If sombody wants thrill let them have a go but why should any emergency personel risk their lives for them?

The Backwards Man · 17-10-2017 08:46PM

We had a local hero got stuck up the Christmas tree in town one year, had to be rescued.

In true heroic style, he sent his wife down the barracks the next day to see if he was in trouble with the law. Sergeant says to her, "ah, tell him he's not in trouble, but tell him he's not fcuking right in the head either."

Not much point making stupidity an offence in fairness. But take every opportunity to tell them what stupid irresponsible selfish bastards they are.

AudreyHepburn · 17-10-2017 08:47PM

Omackeral wrote: »

You have to try save lives regardless. That's the job of emergency services. That's why we try to save suicidal people.

Somewhat agree with this. Prosecuted or fined or made to pay a call out charge. All should be at least debated anyway.

I'm absolutely not saying these people should be left to die - I'm not that cold.

I just think they need to be held to account for recklessly endangering the lives of their rescuers.

branie2 · 17-10-2017 08:47PM

Very much so!

The Undecided One · 17-10-2017 08:48PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

It would be almost impossible to prosecute anyone for such an offence.

The lads windsurfing in Dundalk were highly experienced and were out on the water hours before the storm had even reached the south of the country. They were in a far better position to judge what the risks were than some busy body on the beach.

I'm not condoning the people swimming at Salthill or eejits taking selfies on a pier in a storm, just saying we can't regulate everything.

In this case I would make it mandatory for them to inform rmergency services in advance that they will be staying out on the water and not to respond.

Arsemageddon · 17-10-2017 08:48PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

We had a local hero got stuck up the Christmas tree in town one year, had to be rescued.

In true heroic style, he sent his wife down the barracks the next day to see if he was in trouble with the law. Sergeant says to her, "ah, tell him he's not in trouble, but tell him he's not fcuking right in the head either."

Not much point making stupidity an offence in fairness. But take every opportunity to tell them what stupid irresponsible selfish bastards they are.

Why was he up the tree?

The Backwards Man · 17-10-2017 08:50PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Why was he up the tree?

Because somebody in the pub dared him to do it. You know what peer pressure can be like when you're in your mid to late fifties.

Hitman3000 · 17-10-2017 08:51PM

The Backwards Man wrote:

Because somebody in the pub dared him to do it. You know what peer pressure can be like when you're in your mid to late fifties.

Hopefully someone can dare him not to be a bell end.

Arsemageddon · 17-10-2017 08:52PM

The Undecided One wrote: »

In this case I would make it mandatory for them to inform rmergency services in advance that they will be staying out on the water and not to respond.

That seems like a reasonable enough suggestion.

Mick Costello · 17-10-2017 08:55PM

Yes absolutely they should be punishable by a fine at least,warnings were in place for a reason,selfishly these people ignored the warnings and could have risked others lives by their actions

17-10-2017 08:59PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The lads windsurfing in Dundalk were highly experienced and were out on the water hours before the storm had even reached the south of the country. They were in a far better position to judge what the risks were than some busy body on the beach.

The Undecided One wrote: »

In this case I would make it mandatory for them to inform emergency services in advance that they will be staying out on the water and not to respond.

Emergency Services have to respond, civilians don't get a choice in that. As for the surfers being in a better position to judge the conditions than a busy body on the shore, well that's neither here nor there. Meteorologists decided on a Red Alert for the entire country, I'd wager they are in a far better position to judge.

Also, you can call them busy bodies but wasn't one of the crew members from the doomed former Rescue 116 from Blackrock, Co Louth were these guys were surfing, so you can excuse the 'busy bodies' I'd say. Oh yeah and someone died in Louth from the storm too. So the Red Alert was obviously merited.

biko · 17-10-2017 09:01PM

I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Discodog · 17-10-2017 09:03PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

It would be almost impossible to prosecute anyone for such an offence.

The lads windsurfing in Dundalk were highly experienced and were out on the water hours before the storm had even reached the south of the country. They were in a far better position to judge what the risks were than some busy body on the beach.

I'm not condoning the people swimming at Salthill or eejits taking selfies on a pier in a storm, just saying we can't regulate everything.

I assume you mean North

The busy body probably knew that there was a red warning. Maybe hours before the storm but hours after the warning.

A Galway Guard said that he approached the kids, on the diving board, but could only warn them. The Guards said that they even sounded their sirens to try & stop walkers.

In my opinion, if a red alert is issued for an area, it should be an offence to disregard the warning & the instructions of Gardai.

I am all for civil liberties but no one has the right to actions which will cause worry for the general public during a red alert. I am not against extreme sports.

If the windsurfers had notified the coastguard, before they started, the helicopter & lifeboat would not of been called out.

dudara · 17-10-2017 09:05PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Ok perhaps it shouldn't be a criminal offense but I do still think the Emergency Services should be able to issue a fine or a bill for the call out.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I'm a former member of the emergency services no member would willing refuse to come to someone's aid. The issue is putting oneself in a position of danger when specially warned not to thereby endangering the life of rescue service members.

I commend you. You have a far greater sense of duty than I do.

AudreyHepburn · 17-10-2017 09:07PM

I'd just like to point out I'm not suggesting that we take away people's freedom of choice, only that if they make reckless choices that put the lives of others at risk they must be held accountable.

Red Weather Warnings are not issued for no reason.

AudreyHepburn · 17-10-2017 09:32PM

Discodog wrote: »

I assume you mean North

The busy body probably knew that there was a red warning. Maybe hours before the storm but hours after the warning.

A Galway Guard said that he approached the kids, on the diving board, but could only warn them. The Guards said that they even sounded their sirens to try & stop walkers.

In my opinion, if a red alert is issued for an area, it should be an offence to disregard the warning & the instructions of Gardai.

I am all for civil liberties but no one has the right to actions which will cause worry for the general public during a red alert. I am not against extreme sports.

If the windsurfers had notified the coastguard, before they started, the helicopter & lifeboat would not of been called out.

Agree 100%

Permabear · 17-10-2017 09:33PM

This post has been deleted.

Hitman3000 · 17-10-2017 09:35PM

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

It's not martial law, it's a mechanism whereby you do put the lives of others ( emergency personal) in needless danger when weather conditions dictate that a significant danger exists.

Arsemageddon · 17-10-2017 09:41PM

Discodog wrote: »

I assume you mean North

The busy body probably knew that there was a red warning.
Maybe hours before the storm but hours after the warning.

.

No, I did mean south. AFAIK the storm hadn't even got going in Cork & Kerry when the windsurfers were out.

My point was the windsurfers are in a far better position to judge the conditions than some random member of the public.

In my opinion, if a red alert is issued for an area, it should be an offence to disregard the warning & the instructions of Gardai.

I am all for civil liberties but no one has the right to actions which will cause
worry for the general public during a red alert.

,

I dunno, 'worry for the public' is a very subjective standard. What might cause me worry might be grand for you and vice versa.

It seems to me that it would be an awful waste of the guards time to be running around having to arrest lads on piers and beaches during a storm.

If the windsurfers had notified the coastguard, before they started, the helicopter & lifeboat would not of been called out.

Might be better if they were required to carry a device that could emit a distress signal.

Permabear · 17-10-2017 09:47PM

This post has been deleted.

Arsemageddon · 17-10-2017 09:48PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Emergency Services have to respond, civilians don't get a choice in that. As for the surfers being in a better position to judge the conditions than a busy body on the shore, well that's neither here nor there. Meteorologists decided on a Red Alert for the entire country, I'd wager they are in a far better position to judge.

Met Eireann only wanted to give a red warning for seven counties and an orange warning everywhere else. It was the national emergency committee that decided to extend it to the whole country

Also, you can call them busy bodies but wasn't one of the crew members from the doomed former Rescue 116 from Blackrock, Co Louth were these guys were surfing

I have no idea why you would think that is of any relevance.

Oh yeah and someone died in Louth from the storm too

That happened inland 5 hours later.

Disobeying Safety Warnings - Should it be crime/punishable offence?

Should it be punishable to disobey safety warnings? 145 votes

Comments