Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 08:34AM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Who’s leading them now since Lucinda Creighton quit?

I’ve heard nothing of them since the last election.

John leahy is leader now. I'd like Lucinda to rejoin the party ... this is the issue, my Facebook etc is bombarded by fg propoganda. Renua can do all the good work and have great policies, but they need to make it known that they exist and what they stand for. I won't vote fg again ... ff mark 2

boardsuser1 · 12-10-2017 08:38AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

John leahy is leader now. I'd like Lucinda to rejoin the party ... this is the issue, my Facebook etc is bombarded by fg propoganda. Renua can do all the good work and have great policies, but they need to make it known that they exist and what they stand for. I won't vote fg again ... ff mark 2

I’ve never heard of the man :pac:

Have you signed up to political parties on Facebook?

I wouldn’t dream of it.

If she runs in the next election I think it will be with Renua.

Both parties are like 2 peas in a pod.

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 08:47AM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I’ve never heard of the man :pac:

Have you signed up to political parties on Facebook?

I wouldn’t dream of it.

If she runs in the next election I think it will be with Renua.

Both parties are like 2 peas in a pod.

I think I've liked or signed up to fg. Gave them benefit of doubt. This budget was enough. No interest in them saying one thing and doing another ...

boardsuser1 · 12-10-2017 08:53AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think I've liked or signed up to fg. Gave them benefit of doubt. This budget was enough. No interest in them saying one thing and doing another ...

I’d say Varadkar’s smooth talking is what will prevent the FG party from sinking.

If Enda was still on the bridge, the ship would have sunk long ago and Leo as well as Simon knew that.

Are you going to go SF next?

If Gerry retires more people will probably vote for them admittedly.

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 08:59AM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I’d say Varadkar’s smooth talking is what will prevent the FG party from sinking.

If Enda was still on the bridge, the ship would have sunk long ago and Leo as well as Simon knew that.

Are you going to go SF next?

If Gerry retires more people will probably vote for them admittedly.

No it will be Renua next. I'd never vote sf. In fairness there's a thread on after hours about the budget and the amount of comments on what a spoofer and fraud varadkar is, they are bang on ...

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1907246376207080&id=1475393262725729

djPSB · 12-10-2017 10:08AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I really think they don't care About their vote. Because they think the alternatives will be worse for us. Until a new party emerges that will represent the tax payer or Renua start winning seats at their expense, expect nothing to change ...

The problem is if a party did invest public funds wholly in public services (like transport, healthcare, housing etc) rather than giving the bigger cohorts a few euro each, they'd do very well to get votes in the next election.

Capital projects take time which wouldn't be completed by the next election. So giving a little to the majority of the electorate makes sense for FG.

In reality, the vast majority of Irish people, only care about what's in it for themselves anyways and would fail to see the bigger picture. This isn't helped though by the way recent governments continually pump public funds into public services that are essentially black holes and outdated.

keane2097 · 12-10-2017 10:33AM

The vast majority of Irish people always seem to think the rest of the Irish people are stupid.

In reality, the vast majority of Irish people I see or hear commentating are saying there's no point giving everyone a fiver, we should just spend the money on services.

listermint · 12-10-2017 11:14AM

keane2097 wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish people always seem to think the rest of the Irish people are stupid.

In reality, the vast majority of Irish people I see or hear commentating are saying there's no point giving everyone a fiver, we should just spend the money on services.

100% agree,

Im not sure what think tank they get their advice from but the idea that the majority of people cant see the bigger picture his laughable.

I think the vast majority of people are more intelligent than whats in the Dail tbh.

Wheeliebin30 · 12-10-2017 11:16AM

listermint wrote: »

100% agree,

Im not sure what think tank they get their advice from but the idea that the majority of people cant see the bigger picture his laughable.

I think the vast majority of people are more intelligent than whats in the Dail tbh.

That's true.

But I have seen a lot of people say how come the social welfare got more than me, instead of how come they didn't invest in public services instead of giving a 5er to the social welfare.

Ah i dunno. It's a bit of a mess.

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 11:41AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

That's true.

But I have seen a lot of people say how come the social welfare got more than me, instead of how come they didn't invest in public services instead of giving a 5er to the social welfare.

Ah i dunno. It's a bit of a mess.

My opinion is there is no justification for welfare increases. We live in a country where you lose over half your income on a low amount. Scandals like that. Like the appalling infrastructure. Like the insane debt. Housing, all endlessly morevsesecing of the Money. Maybe even certain welfare like carers are worthy of increases. But these blanket rises, throw it out like confetti vote buyers are a disgrace!!!

boardsuser1 · 12-10-2017 11:56AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

My opinion is there is no justification for welfare increases. We live in a country where you lose over half your income on a low amount. Scandals like that. Like the appalling infrastructure. Like the insane debt. Housing, all endlessly morevsesecing of the Money. Maybe even certain welfare like carers are worthy of increases. But these blanket rises, throw it out like confetti vote buyers are a disgrace!!!

In another generation welfare will probably be €300 a week basic if the annual increases carry on.

Tony EH · 12-10-2017 11:59AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

My opinion is there is no justification for welfare increases. We live in a country where you lose over half your income on a low amount. Scandals like that. Like the appalling infrastructure. Like the insane debt. Housing, all endlessly morevsesecing of the Money. Maybe even certain welfare like carers are worthy of increases. But these blanket rises, throw it out like confetti vote buyers are a disgrace!!!

I think what's clear is that Fine Gael are terrified of a looming general election. They're scared of Fianna Fail pulling the plug and ending their party, so they're chucking fivers at a group that wouldn't usually vote for them.

Even though I've argued against the dole naysayers on here, even I don't think that they should have increased the payment by 5 Euro, if the truth be known. But I know the reasons why they did it. However, I think what they should have done was leave the payment as it is and put unemployment benefit back up to 12 months, where it was before 2012. Reducing benefit to 9 months was a brutal stroke, especially when there are people rotting away on unemployment assistance for years.

I agree with you in that tax bands seriously need to be looked at, with a better incremental system studied, and that's been needed for a long time now. But, there was never a chance that Fine Gael were going to do that in this budget.

Tony EH · 12-10-2017 12:01PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

In another generation welfare will probably be €300 a week basic if the annual increases carry on.

If Pascal Donahue is right, it's only gone up twice in 10 years, so relax.

MayoSalmon · 12-10-2017 12:39PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

That's true.

But I have seen a lot of people say how come the social welfare got more than me, instead of how come they didn't invest in public services instead of giving a 5er to the social welfare.

Ah i dunno. It's a bit of a mess.

Imagine if taxation was a voluntary system....would love to see how much all these "keep your fiver" people are willing to fork over instead of it being taken from them.

My bets would be far less than 40% percent.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-10-2017 01:11PM

keane2097 wrote:

In reality, the vast majority of Irish people I see or hear commentating are saying there's no point giving everyone a fiver, we should just spend the money on services.

It depends on who you are talking to. People on welfare day they haven't seen the recovery. People working are saying they aren't getting enough services for their taxes. Public servants are complaining that any extra money that would go into services isn't being used to restore their pay.

Tony EH wrote:

I think what's clear is that Fine Gael are terrified of a looming general election. They're scared of Fianna Fail pulling the plug and ending their party, so they're chucking fivers at a group that wouldn't usually vote for them.

FG aren't terrified at all. They're all too well aware that their core vote will stay because the economy has been improving since they took over from FF.

If any party is terrified then it is SF based on their bleating about the budget. They're terrified that lack of austerity will stall their growth. They've promised their members that they can achieve their aims through politics alone.

Mr.Micro · 12-10-2017 01:15PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I’d say Varadkar’s smooth talking is what will prevent the FG party from sinking.

If Enda was still on the bridge, the ship would have sunk long ago and Leo as well as Simon knew that.

Are you going to go SF next?

If Gerry retires more people will probably vote for them admittedly.

That is probably the sum of Varadkar, talk. What's s the difference between FF and FG at the minute.....a G.

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 01:25PM

Tony EH wrote: »

I think what's clear is that Fine Gael are terrified of a looming general election. They're scared of Fianna Fail pulling the plug and ending their party, so they're chucking fivers at a group that wouldn't usually vote for them.

Even though I've argued against the dole naysayers on here, even I don't think that they should have increased the payment by 5 Euro, if the truth be known. But I know the reasons why they did it. However, I think what they should have done was leave the payment as it is and put unemployment benefit back up to 12 months, where it was before 2012. Reducing benefit to 9 months was a brutal stroke, especially when there are people rotting away on unemployment assistance for years.

I agree with you in that tax bands seriously need to be looked at, with a better incremental system studied, and that's been needed for a long time now. But, there was never a chance that Fine Gael were going to do that in this budget.

Ending their party? Come on! I reckon fg without this pathetic budget would still win more seats than ff. what they are worried about is not being the senior party in government. Ff won't go in with sf... we are left with tweedle dee and dum. Even if Renua win a few seats, it would do nothing game changing. The left have had wind taken out of their sales. Ff and fg won't go in with sf. Labour are done. Is there a point or would the people even accept this form of sham governed again?

See it's a bit of a balancing act in my opinion. I wouldn't have increasesd any welfare other than pensioners and carers etc. Pensioners is a scandal, but I get politically they want to buy them off. I wouldn't have dropped prescription charge, increases fuel allowance or anything. Use the rest for areas other than welfare, far more needed and far more deserving....

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 01:40PM

Tony EH wrote: »

If Pascal Donahue is right, it's only gone up twice in 10 years, so relax.

Yeah when tje country was stone broke. Boo boo. Capital spending was decimated to facilitate the still world class payments. Tens of billioms borrowed to maintain it. I don't want to hear anyone on welfare and their opinions. My dad is German and lives here. He is a pensioner recently. Can't get over the outrageous welfare and other perks he gets. Thats probably German honesty versus the Irish though ...e70 a week Is what he gets from German pension, based on what u pay in... anyone who has the gall to complain about welfare here is ignorant to f**k over it. If they knew what they'd be getting in other non bust, world class economic powerhouses , Germany for example ...

Tony EH · 12-10-2017 02:19PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

...e70 a week Is what he gets from German pension, based on what u pay in... anyone who has the gall to complain about welfare here is ignorant to f**k over it. If they knew what they'd be getting in other non bust, world class economic powerhouses , Germany for example ...

Again, I have to repeat this. Germany and Ireland are not comparable at all in employment/unemployment. Germany is a country that generates consistent labour for its workforce, even after two devastating world wars, they still managed to come back. Ireland continually fuck up our employment systems to the point that we routinely go through deep troughs of joblessness, with high unemployment figures and thousands forced to leave our shores.

It's also FAR cheaper to live in Germany, easier to get work and companies do more for the employees than they do over here. I know a chap who emigrated to Germany without a word of German and little in the way of experience. He's now working in a large company and is comfortably speaking German...all because his job helped facilitate that. Fat chance something like that happening here.

On this island, we absolutely need a robust welfare system, because we simply cannot manage our labour situations. Without it, the country would be in chaos.

Germany can do with a different welfare system, because their employment systems are handled differently.

crossmolinalad · 12-10-2017 02:29PM

Tony EH wrote: »

If Pascal Donahue is right, it's only gone up twice in 10 years, so relax.

2008 it was 196 took away 10 euro`s so now it is 2018 they got ONE euro MORE than they had in 2008
What did the rest got in those 10 years??? , think a lot more
And a lot of needed things like groceries fuel electrics is gone up incredible in those 10 years
So let them be happy with their one Euro payrise

boardsuser1 · 12-10-2017 02:31PM

crossmolinalad wrote: »

2008 it was 196 took away 10 euro`s so now it is 2018 they got ONE euro MORE than they had in 2008
What did the rest got in those 10 years??? , think a lot more
And a lot of needed things like groceries fuel electrics is gone up incredible in those 10 years
So let them be happy with their one Euro payrise

It was as high as €204 before they reduced it.

I was on it myself at the time.

From what i remember of it back then, it went from 185 to 196 to 204 and then back down.

Mr.Micro · 12-10-2017 04:00PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah when tje country was stone broke. Boo boo. Capital spending was decimated to facilitate the still world class payments. Tens of billioms borrowed to maintain it. I don't want to hear anyone on welfare and their opinions. My dad is German and lives here. He is a pensioner recently. Can't get over the outrageous welfare and other perks he gets. Thats probably German honesty versus the Irish though ...e70 a week Is what he gets from German pension, based on what u pay in... anyone who has the gall to complain about welfare here is ignorant to f**k over it. If they knew what they'd be getting in other non bust, world class economic powerhouses , Germany for example ...

FF knew it could rely on the pensioners votes. Hence several elections in the past bought, at a great cost to the country. Once given, it is very difficult to take back. What does it really matter, €60 plus billions to bail out Anglo, plus billions more for the other crook banks. Apple do not have to pay €14.5 billion tax. Don't ever try and apply logic to the Irish economy or fiscal management.

dublinman1990 · 12-10-2017 05:36PM

For those who are saying that small amounts of money are being given to people pockets from this year's budget. The government are continuously attempting to spend that money on new services like on improving current infrastructure like roads & building new infrastructure like MN & BusConnects.

MN is expected to go ahead for construction in 2021. It is being used as one measure to clamp down on Climate Change.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/metro-north-to-open-by-2027-in-climate-friendly-overhaul-36219519.html

Other new infrastructure measures include:

€4.2 Billion for improving bottlenecks in the road network.
€750 million for funding of BusConnects projects in Dublin.
€35 million for pilot projects like biofuel and electric buses.
€110 for new walking & cycling facilities around the country.

People here need to be aware that their money is being spent if it is being used on improving the country's infrastructure. There could be another time that an increase in their wage packets will be available. But people probably just need to be more patient to see it come to them to make a difference in their circumstances. I'd say that because there is a serious lack of patience among a lot of Irish people about having a serious amount of money going back into their pockets to spend on themselves or their families after an announcement from the budget comes into existence.

People here need to recognise the supposed windfalls that you are getting into back into your pocket will take time to make a lasting difference to you. If your own money is being spent on improving services here but by no means that public services should be regularly referred to as black holes. That puts the country into an us vs them argument many times over and it will never stop because some Irish people can continuously get very bitter about how their money is being spent to improve their own lives. What is with the bitterness surrounding money in this country. Does it mean that much to you that money gives you a happy life while living here? People here sometimes just need to learn their limits rather than spout off rubbish that damages other people's perception of a decent hard working Irish society.

blackwhite · 12-10-2017 05:42PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

For those who are saying that small amounts of money are being given to people pockets from this year's budget. The government are continuously attempting to spend that money on new services like on improving current infrastructure like roads & building new infrastructure like MN & BusConnects.

MN is expected to go ahead for construction in 2021. It is being used as one measure to clamp down on Climate Change.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/metro-north-to-open-by-2027-in-climate-friendly-overhaul-36219519.html

Other new infrastructure measures include:

€4.2 Billion for improving bottlenecks in the road network.
€750 million for funding of BusConnects projects in Dublin.
€35 million for pilot projects like biofuel and electric buses.
€110 for new walking & cycling facilities around the country.

People here need to be aware that their money is being spent if it is being used on improving the country's infrastructure. There could be another time that an increase in their wage packets will be available. But people probably just need to be more patient to see it come to them to make a difference in their circumstances. I'd say that because there is a serious lack of patience among a lot of Irish people about having a serious amount of money going back into their pockets to spend on themselves or their families.

Listening to the radio this morning, there was a point made that schemes from the past that are glorified now (such as rural electrification, replacing the tenements with social housing) were all long-term projects that took over 20 years to complete.
Imagine any politician now announcing a major scheme that would take 20 years to complete - they'd be eviscerated for it.
Lack of patience is very true alright!

James Brown · 12-10-2017 05:58PM

listermint wrote: »

100% agree,

Im not sure what think tank they get their advice from but the idea that the majority of people cant see the bigger picture his laughable.

I think the vast majority of people are more intelligent than whats in the Dail tbh.

Completely agree. I think they want the conversation about the fiver. Most budgets we hear about things being tough and taking responsibility, (like we don't) then we see PR payments.
Everybody I know would prefer value for money. You get what you pay for, we seem to only get money moved around and little in the way of results.
A real conscious effort to create more affordable/social housing, a tear down of the HSE etc. would be a vote winner if some party took their job for more than a four year grab. It's not the public thinking short term, it's politicians looking to throw bones and quick fixes.

NIMAN · 13-10-2017 03:58AM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Completely agree. I think they want the conversation about the fiver. Most budgets we hear about things being tough and taking responsibility, (like we don't) then we see PR payments.
Everybody I know would prefer value for money. You get what you pay for, we seem to only get money moved around and little in the way of results.
A real conscious effort to create more affordable/social housing, a tear down of the HSE etc. would be a vote winner if some party took their job for more than a four year grab. It's not the public thinking short term, it's politicians looking to throw bones and quick fixes.

sorry, but got to disagree. I think most haven't a baldies.

I think a lot of people don't understand what it takes to run a country and the finances that are involved. Most are very active on social media.

Most seem to want us to to have got €100 extra per month instead of €20, they expect every homeless person housed, they expect every single person on a trolley sorted, they expect every person on a waiting list to have their operation this year, they expect free water, free GP visits, no property tax, free bin collections etc...I do think there is a section of people out there who thinks all this is possible.

Thats why they are then on radio saying "they can shove their fiver ...... " because they wanted more. But politicians offer them this 'free' money in the hope of buying their favour, because yes the public and those who vote are generally that fickle. I do believe that is POD had told us all there was no fivers for anyone and that every penny was going to the homeless and the HSE, he wouldn't be in office next election.

keane2097 · 13-10-2017 10:02AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Most seem to want us to to have got €100 extra per month instead of €20, they expect every homeless person housed, they expect every single person on a trolley sorted, they expect every person on a waiting list to have their operation this year, they expect free water, free GP visits, no property tax, free bin collections etc...

What a load of auld rubbish.

I mean, honestly, I'd be fairly surprised if you could find five people saying the above but 'most people'? Give me a break.

In all fairness, if you are that bad at gauging the public mood it's no wonder you think everyone else is an idiot.

13-10-2017 10:05AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

.......Pensioners is a scandal..................

What's scandalous about the contributory pension?

eagle eye · 13-10-2017 11:13AM

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

Iâ€™d say Varadkarâ€™s smooth talking is what will prevent the FG party from sinking.

Not a chance. I'd liken him, appeal wise, to Mitt Romney. He can talk the talk for sure but him being gay, like Romney being mormon, is a huge detractor. You just have to look at the results of the gay marriage referendum to see how many people are anti-gay.

When the election comes around you will hear the other parties talk about the 'family man' to get around mentioning he is gay but reminding people that he is.

VinLieger · 13-10-2017 11:51AM

Augeo wrote: »

What's scandalous about the contributory pension?

Its incredibly broken currently and entirely unsustainable in the long term, but no government is willing to try tackle it as the grey vote will take to the streets on their walkers

Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

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