Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

ELM327

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see a Dublin city tax paid by all workers in Dublin.. €1 a week from everyone working in Dublin city and county regardless of income levels. Solely for the purposes of funding infrastructure in Dublin.

What about those of us who work in Dublin but commute in from 60km away.
And sometimes are based in sites not in Dublin.
Is there a pro-rated tax?
How much is someone paid to calculate a 1 euro tax?

Its a great idea but should be directed at everyone living in dublin, including the free house brigade.

ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

I know quite a few single ladies with sprogs who live in nice enough houses, have cars and go on foreign holidays every year or so and DO NOT work.

+1 same here

Augeo wrote: »

Self respect, drive, a determination to provide for yourself and contribute to society and not to be a bum all your life.

+1
A message which it seems is lost amongst some people here, and on boards threads in general.

Tony EH

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You're not even making serious points. Just bitter ones.

If you think it's so great, go on the dole.

pilly

You know if everyone on here who knows someone on the fiddle would report them sure the social welfare bill would be cut in half, problem solved.

Tony EH

pilly wrote: »

You know if everyone on here who knows someone on the fiddle would report them sure the social welfare bill would be cut in half, problem solved.

Even if the bitters on here actually knew more than 10 people defrauding welfare, it would still be a drop in the ocean.

There's no doubt fraud exists, but it's not the problem some would have you believe.

The problem of the people whining in here is the dole, full stop. They are far from the societal bastions they'd have others believe.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

ELM327

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

+1
There should be a sliding scale, like the German model.
You receive a percentage of your former salary for a couple of years, then sliding right down to a sustenance amount only.

That change, and a change to "you don't get anything out until you've paid in" mentality would be the two changes I would love to see happen.

Tony EH

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How does that help people who are genuinely trying to get work and can't?

You tailor a system for people that need it, not for the few that game that system and certainly not for your own bitter pettiness.

Social welfare systems are to help people and in this country, more people than not will need to avail of it in some way in their lives.

The vast majority of people FIND themselves on the dole through no fault of their own and can't wait to get off of it as soon as they can. It's demeaning, difficult to survive on and the target of **** who are simply unable to focus on anything else.

Most people don't want to be on the dole, but by christ, they're glad of it when the need it, including the big mouth scrap/reduce the dole types on Boards, who - and there isn't a single doubt in mind about this - are straight down their local dole office when the shit hits the fan for themselves.

Tony EH

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
There should be a sliding scale, like the German model.

Germany has a consistent level of job creation in their country, even after two devastating wars.

Ireland has a consistent level of bust and levels of unemployment that go with that.

The two nations aren't comparable.

ELM327

Tony EH wrote: »

Germany has a consistent level of job creation in their country, even after two devastating wars.

Ireland has a consistent level of bust and levels of unemployment that go with that.

The two nations aren't comparable.

So.. due to our badly managed country with parish pump politics, we should also have a badly managed social welfare system which is wide open to abuse?

Tony EH

ELM327 wrote: »

So.. due to our badly managed country with parish pump politics, we should also have a badly managed social welfare system which is wide open to abuse?

This is nonsense. Abuse is minuscule.

Quit your job, go on the dole, commit your fraud.

Then come here and tell us how you got on.

Cyrus

Tony EH wrote: »

Even if the bitters on here actually knew more than 10 people defrauding welfare, it would still be a drop in the ocean.

There's no doubt fraud exists, but it's not the problem some would have you believe.

The problem of the people whining in here is the dole, full stop. They are far from the societal bastions they'd have others believe.

the bitters

you mean the funders

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

If you work in this country you're screwed.BUT if you lie in bed you get extras.
Time the workers stood up for themselves.

That's funny. I was in college/on the dole for a number of years, living with the parents and had a holiday roughly every 3 years. Since I started working less 2 years ago I've paid off a few grand of debt, moved into a nice apartment with a mate, bought a car and saved a few grand and that's on not much more than minimum wage. And it's also funny that I can think of a good dozen people I know who were on the dole til a couple of years ago who have since got jobs and not one of them has decided to say "Actually, nah, I preferred the dole life.".

never_mind

Deleted User wrote: »

That's funny. I was in college/on the dole for a number of years, living with the parents and had a holiday roughly every 3 years. Since I started working less 2 years ago I've paid off a few grand of debt, moved into a nice apartment with a mate, bought a car and saved a few grand and that's on not much more than minimum wage. And it's also funny that I can think of a good dozen people I know who were on the dole til a couple of years ago who have since got jobs and not one of them has decided to say "Actually, nah, I preferred the dole life.".

I will be copying and pasting this frequently.

Cyrus

Tony EH wrote: »

Most people don't want to be on the dole, but by christ, they're glad of it when the need it, including the big mouth scrap/reduce the dole types on Boards, who - and there isn't a single doubt in mind about this - are straight down their local dole office when the shit hits the fan for themselves.

very few people have an issue with assistance for people who find themselves out of work, its people who never work and live solely on state hand outs that people resent.

Quin_Dub

Quin_Dub wrote: »

All - Let's move on from the "Dole Scroungers" discussion please.

Everyone has their opinions that are unlikely to change , so going round and round here is a waste of everyones time.

Thanks

Just a reminder for everyone...

Tony EH

Cyrus wrote: »

very few people have an issue with assistance for people who find themselves out of work, its people who never work and live solely on state hand outs that people resent.

And this is my last word on this matter, cos of Mod direction above.

That number "who never work" is TINY.

It's silly to get one's nose bent out of shape over a TINY number.

The real reason is that it's nothing really to do with that TINY number, or fraud, or how "great" life on the rock'n'roll is.

It's the very notion of the dole itself.

Mr321

It was a sound good Budget I thought but when looked in to doesnt really change anything much across the board.

Has a waft of a general election not far away from it.

eagle eye

I don't think you should get one cent if you are on the dole. I say dole rather than benefit. If somebody has worked for over two years I've no problem with the being given money for up to two years.
Those over two years should have to sit down with somebody who works out what they need to survive. They then get everything ordered for them in a local supermarket and whatever other type of store is necessary and they go collect it.

There should be no alcohol or cigarettes available to these people.

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

Baggly

eagle eye wrote: »

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

Probably a lot more violent muggings and burglaries too.

McMurphy

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think you should get one cent if you are on the dole. I say dole rather than benefit. If somebody has worked for over two years I've no problem with the being given money for up to two years.
Those over two years should have to sit down with somebody who works out what they need to survive. They then get everything ordered for them in a local supermarket and whatever other type of store is necessary and they go collect it.

There should be no alcohol or cigarettes available to these people.

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

Apocalypse scenario from the Max movie set ensues soon afterwards.

Simply Depriving people of cash is far from a solution.

eagle eye

I don't think you'd see any increase as those that do those things are at it regardless.

You'd have a lot of money to spend on drug rehabilitation centres with the money you'd be saving. This is an area where a lot of money needs to be spent. We currently have a horrendously poor drug rehabilitation policy. There is not anywhere near enough spaces for drug rehabilitation in this country.

pilly

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think you should get one cent if you are on the dole. I say dole rather than benefit. If somebody has worked for over two years I've no problem with the being given money for up to two years.
Those over two years should have to sit down with somebody who works out what they need to survive. They then get everything ordered for them in a local supermarket and whatever other type of store is necessary and they go collect it.

There should be no alcohol or cigarettes available to these people.

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

Yeah because I see companies advertising for "druggies and alcoholics" all the time to give them jobs. Crying out for them.

eagle eye

pilly wrote:

Yeah because I see companies advertising for "druggies and alcoholics" all the time to give them jobs. Crying out for them.

Read my reply to a previous poster.

Idbatterim

keane2097 wrote: »

Re:Renua - I think the majority of the electorate wouldn't see the idea of handing the country back to the church as a fair exchange for getting a fiver back off supposed dole scroungers.

They won't have any much / any influence on social matters. If the 8th is repealed next year, you think Renua will be looking to reinstate it?

Also if taxpayers want to bitch about every other group here looking after their own interest, they only have themselves to blame if they don't...

Donal55

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think you should get one cent if you are on the dole. I say dole rather than benefit. If somebody has worked for over two years I've no problem with the being given money for up to two years.
Those over two years should have to sit down with somebody who works out what they need to survive. They then get everything ordered for them in a local supermarket and whatever other type of store is necessary and they go collect it.

There should be no alcohol or cigarettes available to these people.

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

A bit like the big brother house.

Donal55

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think you'd see any increase as those that do those things are at it regardless.

You'd have a lot of money to spend on drug rehabilitation centres with the money you'd be saving. This is an area where a lot of money needs to be spent. We currently have a horrendously poor drug rehabilitation policy. There is not anywhere near enough spaces for drug rehabilitation in this country.

So you don't think desperation could drive a law abiding person into crime?

Baggly

I don't think you have a grasp of the difference in behaviour between a person who is addicted to drugs and can feed their habit and someone who is addicted to drugs and suddenly is deprived of them.

I think there a lot more drug users close to desperation now that don't resort to crime that would turn to crime if their ability to source drugs was suddenly pulled from under them.

Leaving them to their own devices to get clean in the hopes they don't turn to crime or go straight to a clinic isn't something I can see working.

With the lack of opportunities for addicts or even recovering addicts, what you are proposing pretty much amounts to a crime trap, Imo.

Sorry mods will move on.

Geuze

Tony EH wrote: »

Most people don't want to be on the dole, but by christ, they're glad of it when the need it, including the big mouth scrap/reduce the dole types on Boards,

There are 141,500 unemployed people in Ireland, 6.2% of the labour force.

There are 249,000 on the Live Register.

So we have more than 100,000 people who are not unemployed, but are on the Live Register.

Baggly

I think this budget didn't make much sense at all, hence the dissatisfaction from a lot of people...here and IRL.

I think this is one of the pitfalls of the current coalition agreement. I don't like fg but I like this incohesive budget even less.