Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

Geuze · 11-10-2017 01:12PM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Apocalypse scenario from the Max movie set ensues soon afterwards.

Simply Depriving people of cash is far from a solution.

Plenty of countries don't have JSA, they only have JSB.

Or else JSA runs out after a few years.

This is common.

Yet these societies don't breakdown.

People are on other welfare payments, but not JSA, as they aren't unemployed.

See here:

http://www.oecd.org/els/benefits-and-wages-statistics.htm

jk23 · 11-10-2017 01:13PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think you should get one cent if you are on the dole. I say dole rather than benefit. If somebody has worked for over two years I've no problem with the being given money for up to two years.
Those over two years should have to sit down with somebody who works out what they need to survive. They then get everything ordered for them in a local supermarket and whatever other type of store is necessary and they go collect it.

There should be no alcohol or cigarettes available to these people.

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

While your system is similar to the American model in a way. You are forgetting the impact this would have on businesses around the country. People who are on the dole spend money in shops of all kinds ,use gyms and other forms of paid entertainment.

I don’t get why people think that just because they pay an amount of tax a week that they get to lambast a vulnerable section of society. There is a certain part of society in Ireland who have no intention of working and we know who they are and it won’t change. I certainly wouldn’t begrudge anyone social welfare who is a law abiding citizen and not committing large scale fraud . At the end of the day it’s their life.

Donal55 · 11-10-2017 01:14PM

Geuze wrote: »

There are 141,500 unemployed people in Ireland, 6.2% of the labour force.

There are 249,000 on the Live Register.

So we have more than 100,000 people who are not unemployed, but are on the Live Register.

You do know the Live register includes part time and casual workers. Could possibly account for the extra 100,000

Geuze · 11-10-2017 01:16PM

Yes, but could that explain all of the nearly 110,000 extra people?

pilly · 11-10-2017 01:20PM

Geuze wrote:

Yes, but could that explain all of the nearly 110,000 extra people?

I'm pretty sure it's possible 100,000 people work casually

Donal55 · 11-10-2017 01:22PM

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, but could that explain all of the nearly 110,000 extra people?

Why not. Carers for instance can only work approx 19 per week I think.
Plenty of women work in the likes of Tesco, Dunnes Argos etc on a p/t basis whilst looking after kids.

Not everyone is a dole cheat.

johnnyskeleton · 11-10-2017 01:29PM

ELM327 wrote: »

A message which it seems is lost amongst some people here, and on boards threads in general.

pilly wrote: »

You know if everyone on here who knows someone on the fiddle would report them sure the social welfare bill would be cut in half, problem solved.

Tony EH wrote: »

The problem of the people whining in here is the dole, full stop. They are far from the societal bastions they'd have others believe.

Mod note:

This type of comment i.e. "certain people on this thread/forum believe X" is not acceptable and will be considered trolling. If someone says something you disagree with, argue the point with them. But generalisations as to what some people might think is not acceptable.

the_syco · 11-10-2017 01:34PM

How much is petrol going to be now?

Donal55 · 11-10-2017 01:36PM

the_syco wrote: »

How much is petrol going to be now?

Depends on Trump and the Hurricanes.

Geuze · 11-10-2017 01:41PM

Donal55 wrote: »

Why not. Carers for instance can only work approx 19 per week I think.
Plenty of women work in the likes of Tesco, Dunnes Argos etc on a p/t basis whilst looking after kids.

Not everyone is a dole cheat.

I'll do further checking.

Casual and PT workers on LR = 52,000

A carer would be receiving CA, not JSA.

tayto lover · 11-10-2017 01:53PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So when are you going on the dole if it's so good?

I'm afraid I have a work ethic.
I couldn't bear to be supported by someone else.

tayto lover · 11-10-2017 02:04PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I personally think the budget will be seen as underwhelming but not negative for both FF and FG

The centre will get a lift from this and this is precisely the political objective

personally its a reasonable budget given the fiscal space, in fact Im surprised he had any money at all to spend

If they had anything at all to give then it should have been returned to the taxpayer. The people who get up every morning to go to work and keep the country ticking over i.e. the people specifically mention by Varadkar a few weeks ago.
But No. FG have become populist, a label they threw about like confetti a year or two ago.

Baggly · 11-10-2017 02:06PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If they had anything at all to give then it should have been returned to the taxpayer. The people who get up every morning to go to work and keep the country ticking over i.e. the people specifically mention by Varadkar a few weeks ago.
But No. FG have become populist, a label they threw about like confetti a year or two ago.

I dont read it like that. I read it like Varadkar would have liked to do that, which would have won him favour with the middle classes, so FF blocked that.

Its speculation on my part, but i wouldnt be surprised if something like this happened, which is why we have a bit of a everyone in the middle gets a 'something small, no-one is really happy' budget.

crossmolinalad · 11-10-2017 02:19PM

Pter wrote: »

Probably a lot more violent muggings and burglaries too.

And selling they re groceries next door and buying alcohol drugs and the smokes with it

_Kaiser_ · 11-10-2017 02:29PM

Once again the debate descends into another "us vs them" argument - in this case the old reliable "dole heads vs employed". Irish begrudgery can always be relied on to worry about what someone else is getting/getting away with that you're not*

For the Government it's mission accomplished. While the ordinary folk squabble over the scraps, meanwhile the fact that we're building another economy dependent on property tax returns and throwing more money at things badly in need of reform (Health, AGS) goes largely unremarked,
and the fact that Varadkar once again showed himself to be all spin and no substance in his first real test as Taoiseach. We might as well get ready for the GE now.

* That's not to say Welfare fraud and abuse doesn't exist and shouldn't be tackled - absolutely it should! But it's nowhere near the problem that's being made out by some.

ELM327 · 11-10-2017 02:31PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Once again the debate descends into another "us vs them" argument - in this case the old reliable "dole heads vs employed". Irish begrudgery can always be relied on to worry about what someone else is getting/getting away with that you're not*

For the Government it's mission accomplished. While the ordinary folk squabble over the scraps, meanwhile the fact that we're building another economy dependent on property tax returns and throwing more money at things badly in need of reform (Health, AGS) goes largely unremarked,
and the fact that Varadkar once again showed himself to be all spin and no substance in his first real test as Taoiseach. We might as well get ready for the GE now.

* That's not to say Welfare fraud and abuse doesn't exist and shouldn't be tacked - absolutely it should! But it's nowhere near the problem that's being made out by some.

I agree with your post.
We do tend to miss the bigger picture as Irish people.

_Kaiser_ · 11-10-2017 02:32PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I agree with your post.
We do tend to miss the bigger picture as Irish people.

Exactly... and then we wonder why nothing changes/gets better!

Idbatterim · 11-10-2017 04:17PM

I think this budget didn't make much sense at all, hence the dissatisfaction from a lot of people...here and IRL.

I think this is one of the pitfalls of the current coalition agreement. I don't like fg but I like this incohesive budget even less.

I read a good article in the Irish times I think it was, saying this budget was to take wind out of the sails of the likes of SF...

Cyrus · 11-10-2017 04:20PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I read a good article in the Irish times I think it was, saying this budget was to take wind out of the sails of the likes of SF...

how do you take the wind out of the sails of someone who promises everything to everyone barring those who will actually have to pay for it :pac:

James Brown · 11-10-2017 04:25PM

Cyrus wrote: »

how do you take the wind out of the sails of someone who promises everything to everyone barring those who will actually have to pay for it :pac:

What do you mean? Are you referring to tax exiles?

Cyrus · 11-10-2017 04:26PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What do you mean? Are you referring to tax exiles?

no sinn fein

James Brown · 11-10-2017 05:44PM

Cyrus wrote: »

no sinn fein

They would be paying taxes I'd assume.

Just read details on NAMA playing the part of a bank loaning to developers. The pitch is it falls under house building. I guess the government/NAMA assisting private builders build homes for sale on the market, is technically, the government/tax payer supplying homes.
I don't think it's advantageous to the public to go this route, regarding the housing crisis.
Some can't afford homes so we, the tax payers, seem to be in part fixing this by part financing private builds to be sold at market rate.
I can see how that's nice for the builder/seller.
Interest rates on the loans will be about 1% higher than AIB/BOI but giving builders about 80% of the monies needed.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/1011/911565-nama-house-building-spin-off-to-charge-8-interest-rate/

boardsuser1 · 11-10-2017 06:48PM

Pascal is denying the budget was aimed at an election.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1011/911444-budget/

Hitman3000 · 11-10-2017 06:51PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

Pascal is denying the budget was aimed at an election.

A politician denying something, shocking.

boardsuser1 · 11-10-2017 06:52PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

A politician denying something, shocking.

Very honest people that lot :pac:

Donal55 · 12-10-2017 07:22AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I read a good article in the Irish times I think it was, saying this budget was to take wind out of the sails of the likes of SF...

Judging by some of the reactions here i'd say this budget took the wind outta sails of the FG electorate.

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 07:53AM

Donal55 wrote: »

Judging by some of the reactions here i'd say this budget took the wind outta sails of the FG electorate.

I really think they don't care About their vote. Because they think the alternatives will be worse for us. Until a new party emerges that will represent the tax payer or Renua start winning seats at their expense, expect nothing to change ...

lawred2 · 12-10-2017 08:01AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Donal55 wrote: »

Judging by some of the reactions here i'd say this budget took the wind outta sails of the FG electorate.

I really think they don't care About their vote. Because they think the alternatives will be worse for us. Until a new party emerges that will represent the tax payer or Renua start winning seats at their expense, expect nothing to change ...

Renua still exist?

Idbatterim · 12-10-2017 08:10AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Renua still exist?

Yes. They won over 2% of the votes last time round, a threshold which gives them state funding they previously couldn't receive ...

I think maybe they should rebrand ... they really need to get their message out come elevtion time. They could really do with a "celebrity" candidate in my opinion to build awareness and get more exposure for them ...

boardsuser1 · 12-10-2017 08:23AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yes. They won over 2% of the votes last time round, a threshold which gives them state funding they previously couldn't receive ...

I think maybe they should rebrand ... they really need to get their message out come elevtion time. They could really do with a "celebrity" candidate in my opinion to build awareness and get more exposure for them ...

Who’s leading them now since Lucinda Creighton quit?

I’ve heard nothing of them since the last election.

Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

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