British TV viewers react with horror to portrayal of famine in ITV drama Victoria.

SafeSurfer · 03-10-2017 01:06PM #1

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

Icemancometh · 03-10-2017 01:27PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

A Little Pony · 03-10-2017 01:29PM

Great drama, not sure Victoria cared that much as displayed on the show. But it was what it was, a different time. Look into the landlords and tenants at the time, the role of the Catholic Church. Plenty of Irish people made money exporting wheat from Ireland to England.

Huexotzingo · 03-10-2017 01:39PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Great drama, not sure Victoria cared that much as displayed on the show. But it was what it was, a different time. Look into the landlords and tenants at the time, the role of the Catholic Church. Plenty of Irish people made money exporting wheat from Ireland to England.

Nice bit of deflection and whataboutery. kudos

A Little Pony · 03-10-2017 01:43PM

Huexotzingo wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Great drama, not sure Victoria cared that much as displayed on the show. But it was what it was, a different time. Look into the landlords and tenants at the time, the role of the Catholic Church. Plenty of Irish people made money exporting wheat from Ireland to England.

Nice bit of deflection and whataboutery. kudos

Truth is what it is. Why did you have so many Irish farmers selling wheat to England and shipped over?

CrabRevolution · 03-10-2017 01:44PM

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

Are Am Eye · 03-10-2017 01:50PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BrqGNvaT0

razorblunt · 03-10-2017 03:29PM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

Be honest, did you just make this up?
I've lived here for 9 years now and I've not met one person who has come out with that gem.

keano_afc · 03-10-2017 04:18PM

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

marcbrophy · 03-10-2017 04:25PM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

If that's in anyway true, it's because of the TV show Archer.
He calls the Irish as being part of the Axis and Nazi, more than once :pac:

03-10-2017 04:31PM

keano_afc wrote: »

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

Well we're very small. It isn't really surprising.

What do most Irish people know of Portuguese history? or of Iceland's history? Or of Belgium's history, besides the two world wars?

We learn a lot about British history in schools because our history was heavily dependant on Britain, both as a colonist, and as a European power. But their history wasn't even nearly as reliant on Ireland, apart from the odd occasion when there was a hung parliament.

Irish politics just never had have the same impact on the British; although it does seem wrongheaded that their curriculum (or, what I know if it from friends) is so skewed in terms of its apparent apologism for imperialism, including the Famine/ An Gorta Mór.

Chips Lovell · 03-10-2017 04:33PM

Icemancometh wrote: »

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

Pet hate of mine. If I wanted to read a bunch of tweets, I'd go to Twitter.

Sonics2k · 03-10-2017 04:37PM

Huexotzingo wrote: »

Nice bit of deflection and whataboutery. kudos

I mean, I don't want to be a dick here, but historically speaking, he's not wrong.

The British Crown and Government certainly did turn it's back on Ireland, but there was an awful lot of rich Irish and Catholic people who did nothing to help to.

But on topic, my partner is from England, and she was honestly quite shocked to learn about Irish history and just how happened to us over the last few hundred years, but it is extremely common for countries to clean up their own history.

Many Irish people don't even know about the crimes committed by the Irish people in America in the 1800's.

whisky_galore · 03-10-2017 04:40PM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

Find that a little hard to believe, perhaps garbled with Nazi/IRA attempts at linking up, although there were urban legends bandied around about U-boats being refuelled in Ireland, a bit of a laugh as we hardly had (imported) oil for ourselves for table lamps, let alone giving 100's of gallons of it away to the Germans. :pac:

03-10-2017 04:40PM

keano_afc wrote: »

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

Why is it incredible? I don't know a lot about English history. Nor American. Or Spanish. Or German. Wasn't taught to me in school.

pilly · 03-10-2017 04:43PM

keano_afc wrote: »

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of UK history either tbh. Don't really remember if it was taught in school or not but I didn't have an interest either way.

Fratton Fred · 03-10-2017 04:52PM

Icemancometh wrote: »

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

put the words "Famine" and "British" together, its guaranteed to get some sort of reaction and plenty of clicks.

its such a shame that 90% of the world's media is more interested in telling us about the Irish taxi driver who got paid in bit coins and is now a billionaire, or what some ex Coronation Street star looks like today, than it is about actually reporting news.

whisky_galore · 03-10-2017 04:54PM

Icemancometh wrote: »

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

You'd never buy the actual newspaper if they gave you the whole story, would you? :P

keano_afc · 03-10-2017 04:59PM

pilly wrote: »

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of UK history either tbh. Don't really remember if it was taught in school or not but I didn't have an interest either way.

I was referring more to recent history. Considering how our two countries have been so involved with each other since the 90s, I dont think its unreasonable to expect them to have a bit of basic knowledge about the country right next door.

03-10-2017 05:00PM

keano_afc wrote: »

I was referring more to recent history. Considering how our two countries have been so involved with each other since the 90s, I dont think its unreasonable to expect them to have a bit of basic knowledge about the country right next door.

Do you have a bit more basic knowledge of their history?

03-10-2017 05:04PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

put the words "Famine" and "British" together, its guaranteed to get some sort of reaction and plenty of clicks.

its such a shame that 90% of the world's media is more interested in telling us about the Irish taxi driver who got paid in bit coins and is now a billionaire, or what some ex Coronation Street star looks like today, than it is about actually reporting news.

Raquel from Corrie was my first crush

This is her now...

6cb2872aed818e1e882c88d2869aa694--coronation-street-british.jpg

I still would.

server down · 03-10-2017 05:05PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Well we're very small. It isn't really surprising.

What do most Irish people know of Portuguese history? or of Iceland's history? Or of Belgium's history, besides the two world wars?

We learn a lot about British history in schools because our history was heavily dependant on Britain, both as a colonist, and as a European power. But their history wasn't even nearly as reliant on Ireland, apart from the odd occasion when there was a hung parliament.

Irish politics just never had have the same impact on the British; although it does seem wrongheaded that their curriculum (or, what I know if it from friends) is so skewed in terms of its apparent apologism for imperialism, including the Famine/ An Gorta Mór.

The famine is literally British history. And not some far off colony. Part of the United Kingdom.

server down · 03-10-2017 05:08PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, I don't want to be a dick here, but historically speaking, he's not wrong.

The British Crown and Government certainly did turn it's back on Ireland, but there was an awful lot of rich Irish and Catholic people who did nothing to help to.

But on topic, my partner is from England, and she was honestly quite shocked to learn about Irish history and just how happened to us over the last few hundred years, but it is extremely common for countries to clean up their own history.

Many Irish people don't even know about the crimes committed by the Irish people in America in the 1800's.

I’m not sure about how large the rich catholic class was. this was just after the penal laws

pilly · 03-10-2017 05:09PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Raquel from Corrie was my first crush

This is her now...

I still would.

They're 2 different people Ty.

:D:D

03-10-2017 05:09PM

server down wrote: »

The famine is literally British history. And not some far off colony. Part of the United Kingdom.

I'm sure they're taught about it to an extent, but not in detail. A quick search shows that it is covered on the likes of the AQA, OCR, and EDEXCEL teaching boards, but not certain how much of it is covered in actual schools (if any).

Nettle Soup · 03-10-2017 05:10PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, I don't want to be a dick here, but historically speaking, he's not wrong.

The British Crown and Government certainly did turn it's back on Ireland, but there was an awful lot of rich Irish and Catholic people who did nothing to help to.

But on topic, my partner is from England, and she was honestly quite shocked to learn about Irish history and just how happened to us over the last few hundred years, but it is extremely common for countries to clean up their own history.

Many Irish people don't even know about the crimes committed by the Irish people in America in the 1800's.

This is true. There is a shame on both sides but Irish nationalists wrote the history books. And do be fair, the British government did not completely turn it's back on Ireland during the famine. Even though there was a predominantly laissez faire attitude at the time, the British government policies helped save many people from starvation.
Did they do enough? No.

server down · 03-10-2017 05:15PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

This is true. There is a shame on both sides but Irish nationalists wrote the history books. And do be fair, the British government did not completely turn it's back on Ireland during the famine. Even though there was a predominantly laissez faire attitude at the time, the British government policies helped save many people from starvation.
Did they do enough? No.

The idea that there was anything like equal shame on both sides is ludicrous. Ireland didn’t even have a parliament. Even when it did it was ruled by a supremacist class hostile to most of the population. The landlord class was predominantly Anglo Irish and often absentee and hostile as well.

Nettle Soup · 03-10-2017 05:20PM

server down wrote: »

The idea that there was anything like equal shame on both sides is ludicrous. Ireland didn’t even have a parliament. Even when it did it was ruled by a supremacist class hostile to most of the population. The landlord class was predominantly Anglo Irish and often absentee and hostile as well.

Where did I say equal shame? :rolleyes:

I said nationalists wrote the history books which meant no culpability/shame on the Irish side.

Let's not get our knickers in a twist.

03-10-2017 05:21PM

server down wrote: »

The famine is literally British history. And not some far off colony. Part of the United Kingdom.

I know, but it didn't have an impact in a politically or economically meaningful way.

I agree that the British curriculum should be updated to give a more rounded view of British imperialism, if the accounts of my old friends' History A-Levels are accurate.

But for most people, Many British people see Irish history as about as relevant as you or I feel about local history of Roscommon: interesting if you live there, and it has produced some note-worthy citizens, but it's not really relevant.

Again, I'm not talking about the Famine there. I mean Irish history in general.

osarusan · 03-10-2017 05:22PM

We didn't side with the Nazis in WW2? So it was just my dad?

Hector Savage · 03-10-2017 05:23PM

I was talking to an English guy who's son goes to school with my son , at the UK election last June - he asked me had I voted yet - I told him I was Irish ... like from the south originally - still looked at me as if to say ... "Yeah so have you voted yet .... "

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

British TV viewers react with horror to portrayal of famine in ITV drama Victoria.

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