British TV viewers react with horror to portrayal of famine in ITV drama Victoria.

SafeSurfer

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

Icemancometh

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

A Little Pony

Great drama, not sure Victoria cared that much as displayed on the show. But it was what it was, a different time. Look into the landlords and tenants at the time, the role of the Catholic Church. Plenty of Irish people made money exporting wheat from Ireland to England.

Huexotzingo

A Little Pony wrote: »

Great drama, not sure Victoria cared that much as displayed on the show. But it was what it was, a different time. Look into the landlords and tenants at the time, the role of the Catholic Church. Plenty of Irish people made money exporting wheat from Ireland to England.

Nice bit of deflection and whataboutery. kudos

A Little Pony

Huexotzingo wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Great drama, not sure Victoria cared that much as displayed on the show. But it was what it was, a different time. Look into the landlords and tenants at the time, the role of the Catholic Church. Plenty of Irish people made money exporting wheat from Ireland to England.

Nice bit of deflection and whataboutery. kudos

Truth is what it is. Why did you have so many Irish farmers selling wheat to England and shipped over?

CrabRevolution

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

Are Am Eye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72BrqGNvaT0

razorblunt

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

Be honest, did you just make this up?
I've lived here for 9 years now and I've not met one person who has come out with that gem.

keano_afc

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

marcbrophy

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

If that's in anyway true, it's because of the TV show Archer.
He calls the Irish as being part of the Axis and Nazi, more than once :pac:

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

Well we're very small. It isn't really surprising.

What do most Irish people know of Portuguese history? or of Iceland's history? Or of Belgium's history, besides the two world wars?

We learn a lot about British history in schools because our history was heavily dependant on Britain, both as a colonist, and as a European power. But their history wasn't even nearly as reliant on Ireland, apart from the odd occasion when there was a hung parliament.

Irish politics just never had have the same impact on the British; although it does seem wrongheaded that their curriculum (or, what I know if it from friends) is so skewed in terms of its apparent apologism for imperialism, including the Famine/ An Gorta Mór.

Chips Lovell

Icemancometh wrote: »

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

Pet hate of mine. If I wanted to read a bunch of tweets, I'd go to Twitter.

Sonics2k

Huexotzingo wrote: »

Nice bit of deflection and whataboutery. kudos

I mean, I don't want to be a dick here, but historically speaking, he's not wrong.

The British Crown and Government certainly did turn it's back on Ireland, but there was an awful lot of rich Irish and Catholic people who did nothing to help to.

But on topic, my partner is from England, and she was honestly quite shocked to learn about Irish history and just how happened to us over the last few hundred years, but it is extremely common for countries to clean up their own history.

Many Irish people don't even know about the crimes committed by the Irish people in America in the 1800's.

whisky_galore

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

Find that a little hard to believe, perhaps garbled with Nazi/IRA attempts at linking up, although there were urban legends bandied around about U-boats being refuelled in Ireland, a bit of a laugh as we hardly had (imported) oil for ourselves for table lamps, let alone giving 100's of gallons of it away to the Germans. :pac:

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

Why is it incredible? I don't know a lot about English history. Nor American. Or Spanish. Or German. Wasn't taught to me in school.

pilly

keano_afc wrote: »

You only have to watch UK quiz shows to see the lack of knowledge about Ireland. Its incredible how little they know about any aspects of Irish history.

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of UK history either tbh. Don't really remember if it was taught in school or not but I didn't have an interest either way.

Fratton Fred

Icemancometh wrote: »

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

put the words "Famine" and "British" together, its guaranteed to get some sort of reaction and plenty of clicks.

its such a shame that 90% of the world's media is more interested in telling us about the Irish taxi driver who got paid in bit coins and is now a billionaire, or what some ex Coronation Street star looks like today, than it is about actually reporting news.

whisky_galore

Icemancometh wrote: »

That counts as an article for an online newspaper? Three short paragraphs and a bunch of tweets. Jaysus.

You'd never buy the actual newspaper if they gave you the whole story, would you? :P

keano_afc

pilly wrote: »

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of UK history either tbh. Don't really remember if it was taught in school or not but I didn't have an interest either way.

I was referring more to recent history. Considering how our two countries have been so involved with each other since the 90s, I dont think its unreasonable to expect them to have a bit of basic knowledge about the country right next door.

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

I was referring more to recent history. Considering how our two countries have been so involved with each other since the 90s, I dont think its unreasonable to expect them to have a bit of basic knowledge about the country right next door.

Do you have a bit more basic knowledge of their history?

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

put the words "Famine" and "British" together, its guaranteed to get some sort of reaction and plenty of clicks.

its such a shame that 90% of the world's media is more interested in telling us about the Irish taxi driver who got paid in bit coins and is now a billionaire, or what some ex Coronation Street star looks like today, than it is about actually reporting news.

Raquel from Corrie was my first crush



This is her now...



I still would.

server down

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Well we're very small. It isn't really surprising.

What do most Irish people know of Portuguese history? or of Iceland's history? Or of Belgium's history, besides the two world wars?

We learn a lot about British history in schools because our history was heavily dependant on Britain, both as a colonist, and as a European power. But their history wasn't even nearly as reliant on Ireland, apart from the odd occasion when there was a hung parliament.

Irish politics just never had have the same impact on the British; although it does seem wrongheaded that their curriculum (or, what I know if it from friends) is so skewed in terms of its apparent apologism for imperialism, including the Famine/ An Gorta Mór.

The famine is literally British history. And not some far off colony. Part of the United Kingdom.

server down

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, I don't want to be a dick here, but historically speaking, he's not wrong.

The British Crown and Government certainly did turn it's back on Ireland, but there was an awful lot of rich Irish and Catholic people who did nothing to help to.

But on topic, my partner is from England, and she was honestly quite shocked to learn about Irish history and just how happened to us over the last few hundred years, but it is extremely common for countries to clean up their own history.

Many Irish people don't even know about the crimes committed by the Irish people in America in the 1800's.

I’m not sure about how large the rich catholic class was. this was just after the penal laws

pilly

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Raquel from Corrie was my first crush



This is her now...



I still would.

They're 2 different people Ty. :D:D

server down

server down wrote: »

The famine is literally British history. And not some far off colony. Part of the United Kingdom.

I'm sure they're taught about it to an extent, but not in detail. A quick search shows that it is covered on the likes of the AQA, OCR, and EDEXCEL teaching boards, but not certain how much of it is covered in actual schools (if any).

Nettle Soup

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, I don't want to be a dick here, but historically speaking, he's not wrong.

The British Crown and Government certainly did turn it's back on Ireland, but there was an awful lot of rich Irish and Catholic people who did nothing to help to.

But on topic, my partner is from England, and she was honestly quite shocked to learn about Irish history and just how happened to us over the last few hundred years, but it is extremely common for countries to clean up their own history.

Many Irish people don't even know about the crimes committed by the Irish people in America in the 1800's.

This is true. There is a shame on both sides but Irish nationalists wrote the history books. And do be fair, the British government did not completely turn it's back on Ireland during the famine. Even though there was a predominantly laissez faire attitude at the time, the British government policies helped save many people from starvation.
Did they do enough? No.

server down

Nettle Soup wrote: »

This is true. There is a shame on both sides but Irish nationalists wrote the history books. And do be fair, the British government did not completely turn it's back on Ireland during the famine. Even though there was a predominantly laissez faire attitude at the time, the British government policies helped save many people from starvation.
Did they do enough? No.

The idea that there was anything like equal shame on both sides is ludicrous. Ireland didn’t even have a parliament. Even when it did it was ruled by a supremacist class hostile to most of the population. The landlord class was predominantly Anglo Irish and often absentee and hostile as well.

Nettle Soup

server down wrote: »

The idea that there was anything like equal shame on both sides is ludicrous. Ireland didn’t even have a parliament. Even when it did it was ruled by a supremacist class hostile to most of the population. The landlord class was predominantly Anglo Irish and often absentee and hostile as well.

Where did I say equal shame? :rolleyes:

I said nationalists wrote the history books which meant no culpability/shame on the Irish side.

Let's not get our knickers in a twist.

server down

server down wrote: »

The famine is literally British history. And not some far off colony. Part of the United Kingdom.

I know, but it didn't have an impact in a politically or economically meaningful way.

I agree that the British curriculum should be updated to give a more rounded view of British imperialism, if the accounts of my old friends' History A-Levels are accurate.

But for most people, Many British people see Irish history as about as relevant as you or I feel about local history of Roscommon: interesting if you live there, and it has produced some note-worthy citizens, but it's not really relevant.

Again, I'm not talking about the Famine there. I mean Irish history in general.

osarusan

We didn't side with the Nazis in WW2? So it was just my dad?

Hector Savage

I was talking to an English guy who's son goes to school with my son , at the UK election last June - he asked me had I voted yet - I told him I was Irish ... like from the south originally - still looked at me as if to say ... "Yeah so have you voted yet .... "

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

riffmongous

razorblunt wrote: »

Be honest, did you just make this up?
I've lived here for 9 years now and I've not met one person who has come out with that gem.

It comes up online whenever an English article is written about WW2 and Ireland, well before Archer made a joke of it. Refuelling subs and whatnot

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

I was talking to an English guy who's son goes to school with my son , at the UK election last June - he asked me had I voted yet - I told him I was Irish ... like from the south originally - still looked at me as if to say ... "Yeah so have you voted yet .... "

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

I think many of us who have lived in England/ Wales (the Scots and the Northerners tend to know their history) or have English/ Welsh friends, have experienced the same.

I've lost count the number of times I've had exchanges like this (I'm in asterisks)

*Actually I'm from Ireland*
Well it's all the same really isn't it
*Well not really! We're a different country*
OK yeah but not like other countries are.

I actually don't see this as a problem here. My parents were of a generation where Irish people would hide their identity/ accent in the U.K., and that was even before the Troubles.

Take it as a mark of a unique and close friendship, there's no arrogance in it; they (at least, the reasonable grownups) see us as their equals and their friends.

Grayson

Hector Savage wrote: »

I was talking to an English guy who's son goes to school with my son , at the UK election last June - he asked me had I voted yet - I told him I was Irish ... like from the south originally - still looked at me as if to say ... "Yeah so have you voted yet .... "

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

If you were in the UK, Irish ppl can vote there.

selwyn froggitt

Hector Savage wrote: »

I was talking to an English guy who's son goes to school with my son , at the UK election last June - he asked me had I voted yet - I told him I was Irish ... like from the south originally - still looked at me as if to say ... "Yeah so have you voted yet .... "

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/who-is-eligible-to-vote-at-a-uk-general-election

The Irish can vote in a British general election!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

We learn a lot about British history in schools because our history was heavily dependant on Britain, both as a colonist, and as a European power. But their history wasn't even nearly as reliant on Ireland, apart from the odd occasion when there was a hung parliament.

But they don't learn about that either. Almost nobody in Britain is aware of the Home Rule Crisis and how it brought the UK to the brink of civil war.

dinorebel

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While it's almost certainly a minority, the number of British people who honestly seem to think Ireland fought alongside the Nazis in WW2 makes me worry about how history is taught in the UK.

I'm English and have never met or heard of anyone believing that.

A Little Pony

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

We learn a lot about British history in schools because our history was heavily dependant on Britain, both as a colonist, and as a European power. But their history wasn't even nearly as reliant on Ireland, apart from the odd occasion when there was a hung parliament.

But they don't learn about that either. Almost nobody in Britain is aware of the Home Rule Crisis and how it brought the UK to the brink of civil war.

How many of them know anything about history in general? Not much.

ilovesmybrick

dinorebel wrote: »

I'm English and have never met or heard of anyone believing that.

I think it's probably a misconception from what the user came across in school history. There was an issue in the early part of the Second World War where Irish soldiers wore "coal scuttle" style helmets very similar to the Wehrmacht that have a lip covering the back of the neck.It was replaced around 1940, but by that point the similarities had already been used for anti-Irish neutrality propaganda to suggest Ireland was really supporting Germany in the war. The general gripe is the simple fact we were neutral, which is far more complex.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

What's 'our notion of ourselves'?

I find most Irish people are fairly self deprecating in general. And we have a pretty good understanding of our history.

Germany doesn't sugar tooth it's excesses during ww2 for it's education system.
But Britain does. There is a great debate emerging in Britain about taking responsibility for it's colonial past.
This being a part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4

That will filter into the education system over time and into the general consciousness. Very timely for them as the last vestiges of Empire fade with Brexit.

Fratton Fred

Hector Savage wrote: »

I was talking to an English guy who's son goes to school with my son , at the UK election last June - he asked me had I voted yet - I told him I was Irish ... like from the south originally - still looked at me as if to say ... "Yeah so have you voted yet .... "

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

If you live in the uk, you could have voted.

Donal55

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Raquel from Corrie was my first crush



This is her now...



I still would.

And one of them is dead!

Fratton Fred

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Take it as a mark of a unique and close friendship, there's no arrogance in it; they (at least, the reasonable grownups) see us as their equals and their friends.

I think that's the thing, in the UK, the Irish aren't seen as "Foreign" in the same way a German or a Spaniard would be.

I think it was on the military board that someone, upon joining the British army, took offence at being called a paddy bastard, until he realised that the guy from Newcastle was a Geordie bastard, the Londoner a cockney bastard and the Welsh guy a taffy bastard.

Donal55

Donal55 wrote: »

And one of them is dead!

They're both very much alive, in real life as well as my dreams Donal.

'Tis Betty is dead, and Rita on the way out. Never fancied either of them.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

What's 'our notion of ourselves'?

I find most Irish people are fairly self deprecating in general. And we have a pretty good understanding of our history.

Germany doesn't sugar tooth it's excesses during ww2 for it's education system.
But Britain does. There is a great debate emerging in Britain about taking responsibility for it's colonial past.
This being a part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4

That will filter into the education system over time and into the general consciousness. Very timely for them as the last vestiges of Empire fade with Brexit.

Our notion of ourselves is predicated by a selective memory.
When I was in school we didn't learn anything about the large numbers of Irish men fighting in the British army or their integral part in maintaining the empire.
There was no mention of the sectarian killings of protestants during the war of independence or the pogrom of the Jews in Limerick. Or how the Irish republic became a narrow minded Gaelic theocracy.

Our notion of ourselves is of a plucky people oppressed for 700 years. Romantic notions of a glorious cultural past culminating in a blood sacrifice uprising with noble ideals from which a fair, just society was created. A nation of people often beaten but never beat. Even our defeats are victories and we are loved all over the world.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Our notion of ourselves is predicated by a selective memory.
When I was in school we didn't learn anything about the large numbers of Irish men fighting in the British army or their integral part in maintaining the empire.
There was no mention of the sectarian killings of protestants during the war of independence or the pogrom of the Jews in Limerick. Or how the Irish republic became a narrow minded Gaelic theocracy.

Our notion of ourselves is of a plucky people oppressed for 700 years. Romantic notions of a glorious cultural past culminating in a blood sacrifice uprising with noble ideals from which a fair, just society was created. A nation of people often beaten but never beat. Even our defeats are victories and we are loved all over the world.

You are going to pluck fairly isolated incidents now. OK. Carry on.

I don't know what era you went to school but when I went (70's early 80's) the system bent over backwards not to take a side. And my history book definitely mentioned sectarian killings on all sides.
I agree on the first World war stuff but that has been amply addressed now.

And I happen to think we are a 'plucky, not easily repressed people' in general who were repressed for 800 years. That is why we eventually revolted and changed that in part of the island. To me that is a fact.

But I think our main trait is to be self deprecating and self aware. As you have just been. I never said we were perfect, which you seem to expect.

WesternZulu

Hector Savage wrote:

I explained to him briefly that the UK is England,Scot,Wales + N. Ireland ... he said "Ah yes of course ... " But I could tell he was acting it , he didn't really know and was saving himself embarrassment .. and this guy travels a lot with his work and is a smart guy.

I lived with an English lad in Wales who had studies Geography during his undergraduate days and been to Ireland. He was adamant that Ireland was part of the UK when it came up in conversation.

He even went to get his passport to show me it said 'Great Britain and Ireland' when I had mentioned we had our own passport.

More people than you'd think in the UK think we're part of the union and have no knowledge at all about Northern Ireland, nevermind the republic.

I think they're a more insular nation than us and I suppose that naturally comes from being traditionally a super power.

Floki

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Our notion of ourselves is predicated by a selective memory.
When I was in school we didn't learn anything about the large numbers of Irish men fighting in the British army or their integral part in maintaining the empire.
There was no mention of the sectarian killings of protestants during the war of independence or the pogrom of the Jews in Limerick. Or how the Irish republic became a narrow minded Gaelic theocracy.

Our notion of ourselves is of a plucky people oppressed for 700 years. Romantic notions of a glorious cultural past culminating in a blood sacrifice uprising with noble ideals from which a fair, just society was created. A nation of people often beaten but never beat. Even our defeats are victories and we are loved all over the world.

Don't forget the 1798 rebellion was mostly fought along sectarian lines too with just a few exceptions. There were a large number of Protestant farming and tradesmen taken from their homes and killed on Vinegar hill in Wexford when rebellion broke out and then you had the Scullabogue massacre and burning as well. This was just fifty years before the famine. I'm sure that would have influenced any decisions from the British establishment.

server down

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Our notion of ourselves is predicated by a selective memory.
When I was in school we didn't learn anything about the large numbers of Irish men fighting in the British army or their integral part in maintaining the empire.
There was no mention of the sectarian killings of protestants during the war of independence or the pogrom of the Jews in Limerick. Or how the Irish republic became a narrow minded Gaelic theocracy.

Our notion of ourselves is of a plucky people oppressed for 700 years. Romantic notions of a glorious cultural past culminating in a blood sacrifice uprising with noble ideals from which a fair, just society was created. A nation of people often beaten but never beat. Even our defeats are victories and we are loved all over the world.

All parts of the empire contributed foot soldiers to the empire. In Ireland the officer class was largely Anglo Irish.

And there was no pogrom. It was a boycott. Ireland elected Jewish mayors in Dublin and cork before the US had one.

A Little Pony

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

What's 'our notion of ourselves'?

I find most Irish people are fairly self deprecating in general. And we have a pretty good understanding of our history.

Germany doesn't sugar tooth it's excesses during ww2 for it's education system.
But Britain does. There is a great debate emerging  in Britain about taking responsibility for it's colonial past.
This being a part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4

That will filter into the education system over time and into the general consciousness. Very timely for them as the last vestiges of Empire fade with Brexit.

Our notion of ourselves is predicated by a selective memory.
When I was in school we didn't learn anything about the large numbers of Irish men fighting in the British army or their integral part in maintaining the empire.
There was no mention of the sectarian killings of protestants during the war of independence or the pogrom of the Jews in Limerick. Or how the Irish republic became a narrow minded Gaelic theocracy.

Our notion of ourselves is of a plucky people oppressed for 700 years. Romantic notions of a glorious cultural past culminating in a blood sacrifice uprising with noble ideals from which a fair, just society was created. A nation of people often beaten but never beat. Even our defeats are victories and we are loved all over the world.

That sums up the Irish Republic perfectly. 

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am not surprised that many British viewers were unaware of the history of the Irish famine.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/british-tv-viewers-share-shock-at-portrayal-of-irish-famine-in-victoria-808238.html

It is hardly surprising that any nation's education system glosses over the worst excesses of their past. Whether that be the US slaughter of the native Americans, the treatment of the Aborigines in Australia or the Irish during the famine.
There are many aspects of our own history that are conveniently forgotten in the interests of preserving our notion of ourselves.

What's 'our notion of ourselves'?

I find most Irish people are fairly self deprecating in general. And we have a pretty good understanding of our history.

Germany doesn't sugar tooth it's excesses during ww2 for it's education system.
But Britain does. There is a great debate emerging  in Britain about taking responsibility for it's colonial past.
This being a part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4

That will filter into the education system over time and into the general consciousness. Very timely for them as the last vestiges of Empire fade with Brexit.

What is to take responsibility for it? The British Empire did what many other Empires did around the time. I don't know how far back people would want to go with this.

server down

Floki wrote: »

Don't forget the 1798 rebellion was mostly fought along sectarian lines too with just a few exceptions. There were a large number of Protestant farming and tradesmen taken from their homes and killed on Vinegar hill in Wexford when rebellion broke out and then you had the Scullabogue massacre and burning as well. This was just fifty years before the famine. I'm sure that would have influenced any decisions from the British establishment.

There were Native American atrocities against settlers too. You could concentrate on that I suppose but it would miss the larger picture.