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Hotel Cancels Pro life event due to Intimidation.

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Comments

  • #1202
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Akrasia wrote: »
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Why stop there? Why not say they want them chained to beds too.

    There is a 14 year jail sentence for a woman convicted of having an abortion in Ireland.

    The anti repeal side want to keep the law the way it is or even make the law tougher on abortion. This criminalises women who make different choices to them.
    Do you accept that in recent years more women have been jailed in England, where abortion is legal, than in Ireland where abortion is illegal, for terminating their own pregnancies?
    How many have in each country? It would be interesting to get an accurate per capita comparison.


  • #1203
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    kylith wrote: »
    I'm not talking about women who are dying as a result of illness, I'm talking about women who can and will die as a result of home-made abortions.

    I find it hard to believe many people would be that feckin stupid.


  • #1204
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    seamus wrote: »
    You see, that's applying a level of morals to a scenario where they cannot apply.

    It's a bit like saying, "Animals can't give consent, so is all sex between them rape?". Of course that's nonsense, since animals do not and cannot understand consent, so it's illogical to apply that moral value to the scenario.

    Likewise the cells you refer to are incapable of thought. Of "knowing". Therefore it's illogical to apply moral values pertaining to knowledge or awareness, to the scenario.

    Is it ok to destroy a teddy because the teddy doesn't know you're doing it? Or is it OK to destroy a teddy because it's just an unconscious object?

    I guess it's ok to destroy that teddy, once it's not human cells, which we all are. Of course you can apply a level of morals - what else can you do? I'm asking where is the line between a killing being justifiable and not - in my view, it's nowhere near 'well I just don't want to be pregnant'.


  • #1205
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    thee glitz wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe many people would be that feckin stupid.

    I think you underestimate the desperation of someone who does not want to be pregnant.


  • #1206
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Billy86 wrote: »
    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Akrasia wrote: »
    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Why stop there? Why not say they want them chained to beds too.

    There is a 14 year jail sentence for a woman convicted of having an abortion in Ireland.

    The anti repeal side want to keep the law the way it is or even make the law tougher on abortion. This criminalises women who make different choices to them.
    Do you accept that in recent years more women have been jailed in England, where abortion is legal, than in Ireland where abortion is illegal, for terminating their own pregnancies?
    How many have in each country? It would be interesting to get an accurate per capita comparison.

    If you start researching the Irish numbers I will compile the English figures.
    Good luck with your research.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • #1207
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    kylith wrote: »
    I think you underestimate the desperation of someone who does not want to be pregnant.

    Complete idiots the neglible amount of them are, if they exist.

    2puPf3t.jpgo


  • #1208
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    kylith wrote: »
    I think you underestimate the desperation of someone who does not want to be pregnant.
    I think that (his) post is frankly disgusting.


  • #1209
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    If I discovered I was pregnant, I would do anything required to see to it that I was not.


  • #1210
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Complete idiots the neglible amount of them are, if they exist.

    Why would you say they're idiots? They're desperate. They cannot afford to travel for an abortion, which is a pretty good sign that they can't afford to raise a baby, wouldn't you say?


  • #1211
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    kylith wrote: »
    Why would you say they're idiots? They're desperate. They cannot afford to travel for an abortion, which is a pretty good sign that they can't afford to raise a baby, wouldn't you say?
    Remember the anti-choice side's motto...
    We care about the unborn child but once it's born, you're on your own its not our problem.


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  • #1212
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Desperation does not equal idiocracy.


  • #1213
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    kylith wrote: »
    Why would you say they're idiots? They're desperate. They cannot afford to travel for an abortion, which is a pretty good sign that they can't afford to raise a baby, wouldn't you say?
    Remember the anti-choice side's motto...
    We care about the unborn child but once it's born, you're on your own its not our problem.

    Well which is it. The Catholic Church is criticised for running adoption services, mother and baby homes etc and also criticised for abandoning mothers at birth.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1214
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well which is it. The Catholic Church is criticised for running adoption services, mother and baby homes etc and also criticised for abandoning mothers at birth.

    1 - I wouldn't be espousing the positive nature of Catholic mother and baby homes if I were you. Have you picked up a newspaper in the last 25 years?
    2 - Adoption still enforces the pregnancy on the mother. For crisis pregnancies this is part of the problem.


  • #1215
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well which is it. The Catholic Church is criticised for running adoption services, mother and baby homes etc and also criticised for abandoning mothers at birth.

    They're criticised for the way they ran those things, not because they ran them.


  • #1216
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    ELM327 wrote: »
    1 - I wouldn't be espousing the positive nature of Catholic mother and baby homes if I were you. Have you picked up a newspaper in the last 25 years?
    2 - Adoption still enforces the pregnancy on the mother. For crisis pregnancies this is part of the problem.

    And women who are married cannot give a baby up for adoption unless their husband is not the father of that baby or unless they declare themselves unfit to look after the child, this could cause problems for any children they already have or possible future children.


  • #1217
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well which is it. The Catholic Church is criticised for running adoption services, mother and baby homes etc and also criticised for abandoning mothers at birth.

    1 - I wouldn't be espousing the positive nature of Catholic mother and baby homes if I were you. Have you picked up a newspaper in the last 25 years?
    2 - Adoption still enforces the pregnancy on the mother. For crisis pregnancies this is part of the problem.

    We can argue about the poor experiences of some of those who resided in mother and baby homes just like we argue about the poor experiences of some of those who have undergone abortions.

    However you can't argue that mothers were abandoned once they gave birth.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1218
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    January wrote: »
    ELM327 wrote: »
    1 - I wouldn't be espousing the positive nature of Catholic mother and baby homes if I were you. Have you picked up a newspaper in the last 25 years?
    2 - Adoption still enforces the pregnancy on the mother. For crisis pregnancies this is part of the problem.

    And women who are married cannot give a baby up for adoption unless their husband is not the father of that baby or unless they declare themselves unfit to look after the child, this could cause problems for any children they already have or possible future children.

    Well if the choice is abortion or declaring themselves unfit to look after the child then adoption shouldn't be a problem.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1219
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    We can argue about the poor experiences of some of those who resided in mother and baby homes just like we argue about the poor experiences of some of those who have undergone abortions.

    However you can't argue that mothers were abandoned once they gave birth.
    That's laughable.
    Shall i recount the many names of people I knew who had their babies taken off them by the catholic church?
    Want to come count the skeletons in Tuam?


  • #1220
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well if the choice is abortion or declaring themselves unfit to look after the child then adoption shouldn't be a problem.

    You don't understand, the pregnancy can have an effect on someone's mental health, the actual foetus growing inside the person's body changes their hormones. It can have effects on people's mental health. Having had indirect experience through work for 12 months of mental health services, I saw it first hand.


  • #1221
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    If God is for the pro life side then who can be against them?


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  • #1222
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    We can argue about the poor experiences of some of those who resided in mother and baby homes just like we argue about the poor experiences of some of those who have undergone abortions.

    However you can't argue that mothers were abandoned once they gave birth.
    That's laughable.
    Shall i recount the many names of people I knew who had their babies taken off them by the catholic church?
    Want to come count the skeletons in Tuam?

    Want to compare how many tens of thousands of children and hundreds of thousands of descendants are alive today because of those homes?

    These were women who had been abandoned by their families. Disowned.
    It is fair to assume that many of those campaigning for abortion today would not be alive if abortion had been an option in the past.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1223
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Want to compare how many tens of thousands of children and hundreds of thousands of descendants are alive today because of those homes?

    These were women who had been abandoned by their families. Disowned.
    It is fair to assume that many of those campaigning for abortion today would not be alive if abortion had been an option in the past.
    And a life of beatings and rapings is much better?

    Abandoned by their families, because of the church.

    The point about people not being alive... I don't know about you but I didn't remember not being alive until I was born, the planet existed before me and will exist after me. If my parents didnt decide to have me - abortion or otherwise - I wouldn't be here. And you know what? I'm ok with that.


  • #1224
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    If God is for the pro life side then who can be against them?
    Rational people?


  • #1225
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,642 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Want to compare how many tens of thousands of children and hundreds of thousands of descendants are alive today because of those homes?

    These were women who had been abandoned by their families. Disowned.
    It is fair to assume that many of those campaigning for abortion today would not be alive if abortion had been an option in the past.

    And there are doubtless many Irish people born in the 1950s and 1960s who would not have been born if contraception had been readily available back then. Therefore we should re-outlaw contraception...


  • #1226
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    And there are doubtless many Irish people born in the 1950s and 1960s who would not have been born if contraception had been readily available back then. Therefore we should re-outlaw contraception...
    There's also people who wouldnt have been born if there wasnt the anti-gay attitudes (also invented by the church) forcing gay people to live "normal" hetero lives and have kids.

    Guess we should outlaw gayness.

    Actually there's children who arent born because I broke up with my last partner a few years ago before we had kids. Should that also be illegal?


  • #1227
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    ELM327 wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    If God is for the pro life side then who can be against them?
    Rational people?
    It's going to be a pretty hard to sell that killing babies is fine to people. If the pro life side can use better speeches and bring more passion to the debate then it's a no contest like Brexit then it's as good as over. Good luck to the pro life side in the Irish Republic.


  • #1228
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,464 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    It's going to be a pretty hard to sell that killing babies is fine to people. If the pro life side can use better speeches and bring more passion to the debate then it's a no contest like Brexit then it's as good as over. Good luck to the pro life side in the Irish Republic.
    Great.
    Since no one is actually killing babies, then there's no problem!


  • #1229
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    It's going to be a pretty hard to sell that killing babies is fine to people. If the pro life side can use better speeches and bring more passion to the debate then it's a no contest like Brexit then it's as good as over. Good luck to the pro life side in the Irish Republic.

    and here was me thinking that abortion is the same as killing babies was the hard sell...


  • #1230
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Well if the choice is abortion or declaring themselves unfit to look after the child then adoption shouldn't be a problem.

    But they could have their other children removed from their care too, even if they are fit to look after them but not another child.


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  • #1231
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I think that (his) post is frankly disgusting.
    kylith wrote: »
    Why would you say they're idiots? They're desperate. They cannot afford to travel for an abortion, which is a pretty good sign that they can't afford to raise a baby, wouldn't you say?

    What are youse on about? See my map above (from the WHO) - THEY DON'T EXIST. Not around here anyway.


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