Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

FizzleSticks · 30-09-2017 04:59PM

This post has been deleted.

Stonedpilot · 30-09-2017 05:20PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

There was a suicide thread on After Hours not long ago. There was no purposeful and malicious attempts to mislead the masses about suicide, which the OP has done here. There was no petty and stupid back-and-forths. There was no crass generalisations about people who have or have considered taken their own life. There was, however, a lot of the same empathy and compassion which these obesity threads tend to lack in spades. Why was there compassion and empathy? Because it's a very real, very sensitive and very serious subject. Guess what, so is obesity, but for some horrific reason we feel entitled to be far more flippant and reckless about one growing trend in Irish society and very cautious and very humanly about the other. They wouldn't get away with getting their facts and stats wrong in a discussion about suicide. Why is it okay in this setting? It's not, but at the same time it is.

I'm protective about threads of this nature for two reasons: a) I used to be obese and b) I can't stand the fact - and tragically it is a fact - that people feel entitled to share an opinion on a subject that they know nothing about. Worse yet, people like the OP have no desire to form a valid opinion. If he did then why in the name of Mike did he claim Ireland had a worse problem than the United States when it would've taken him literally less than 10 seconds to discover that wasn't the case? Because he, like many others with the same opinion on the topic, is utterly reckless with what he says about obesity.

He has a very clear and very bias agenda to make obese people look as worse as possible by spreading untruths - some would call them lies - and offering up a totally false and totally skewed portrayal of them. It hurts because in spite of the fact this is an internet forum, it's also a platform to give a lot people a fresh perspective on things. It's a platform to influence their opinion which they may go and take out into the real world with them, and that's a major problem. He is reinforcing the idea that obese people and morbidly obese people deserve condemnation when, actually, it's compassion.

Like a man or woman contemplating suicide, a lot of obese people are suffering in a major way. It's just a lot harder to hide their pain because it manifests itself in over eating and consequently weight gain.

This topic has nothing to do with suicide stop trying to lump that in to get the hearts and minds, its pathetic populism.
If you can't stand the fact people have opinions that's too bad. This is the real world unfortunately, people have opinions. You do realize your post is one?. Regardless of whether the people know what they are talking about or not is an opinion too.If they do or they don't so what?. This is an opinions forum!. Don't trying to be so pious anyway I Never claimed to be an expert and later in the thread I did say I was wrong on the America thing. Wasn't a devious plot to lead anyone astray or 'infleunce opinion', so put the pitchfork down.

If the general populas have their opinion influenced by after hours on boards.ie frankly I am worried, I give the public more credit than that though. They aren't as weak minded as you think, to be 'influenced' by this. Least i hope not. Your opinion isn't that important, neither is mine. Never once ever met someone whos opinion on something changed completely because of this forum.

Your logic that you know more about obesity because you were is absurd, like saying an alcoholic is an expert on wine. Having been through something gives you experience not expertise, don't confuse the two.
Everyone experiences suffering, obese,thin,tall,short,disabled whatever category someone falls into they all experience pain, it's part of life some experience more than others. You can't justify one group of peoples pain more worthy than others that's arrogance. Remember everyone has suffering, many people who are about daily lifes looking fine have terrible suffering so it's a moot point to mention that. The irony is how do you know the people you were vicious toward on this isn't suffering and hiding it ie Romantic Rose?. I mean
I fail to see how you are compassionate, not the way you typed to her so your post here is not as just and heartfelt as you want people to believe.

De Oro · 30-09-2017 05:20PM

As someone born abroad I'll add my two cents to this discussion. Although I haven't read whole thread just yet I've got a sense this opinion won't be popular so imho obesity is just a result of lack of shaming. In other countries people don't dare to be fat and are being shamed and harassed within family, amongst friends never mind random strangers giving out whereas people of Ireland have chosen to tolerate everything and everybody and now we can see the outcome.

Also I've been thinking a lot why in such a wealthy, happy place there is such high suicide rate and imho just because everybody appear to be smiling and always happy whatever you do, whatever way you look, you feel like you're the only one feeling out of place. Also there are extremely limited opportunities to connect heart-to-heart with others, no common "enemy", no passion. Everything has to be shallow and "happy". I kinda understand water protesters and their likes, at least they've found outlet for their wild side, not much help if one disagrees with whole concept though.

Anyways, I'd say a bit of general abuse won't hurt

pilly · 30-09-2017 05:32PM

Stonedpilot wrote:

This topic has nothing to do with suicide stop trying to lump that in to get the hearts and minds, its pathetic populism. If you can't stand the fact people have opinions that's too bad. This is the real world unfortunately, people have opinions. You do realize your post is one?. Regardless of whether the people know what they are talking about or not is an opinion too.If they do or they don't so what?. This is an opinions forum!. Don't trying to be so pious anyway I Never claimed to be an expert and later in the thread I did say I was wrong on the America thing. Wasn't a devious plot to lead anyone astray or 'infleunce opinion', so put the pitchfork down.

You need to go back to school then son and learn the english language again. You can state your opinion all you like what you can't do is state something as fact that isn't. That's calling lying.

Stonedpilot · 30-09-2017 05:52PM

pilly wrote: »

You need to go back to school then son and learn the english language again. You can state your opinion all you like what you can't do is state something as fact that isn't. That's calling lying.

You have resorted to childish insults I mean whats the point debating you if you are that immature?. Offer advice instead.
English language. Capital E for correct grammar.

screamer · 30-09-2017 06:26PM

I don't think whether it's allowed or ok is relevant. We should wonder why is it so prevalent?
I think a lot of it is addiction. I think Irish people are far more likely to suffer addiction than other races given we have such a small gene pool and we're well known for being called the "drunken" Irish...... now remove the drunken and realise Some people's addiction is alcohol some drugs some gambling and others food. So the fat Irish is not too hard to understand really.

30-09-2017 06:49PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

<snip>

I'm protective about threads of this nature for two reasons: a) I used to be obese and b) I can't stand the fact - and tragically it is a fact - that people feel entitled to share an opinion on a subject that they know nothing about. Worse yet, people like the OP have no desire to form a valid opinion. If he did then why in the name of Mike did he claim Ireland had a worse problem than the United States when it would've taken him literally less than 10 seconds to discover that wasn't the case? Because he, like many others with the same opinion on the topic, is utterly reckless with what he says about obesity. <snip>

I have a few problem's with this attitude since it seeks to shut down discussion about the topic. If you've never been obese, then you can't understand the problem and therefore can't comment on it.

I grew up extremely skinny with a shaking disorder and often received comments from people about being Anorexic. I wasn't Anorexic but I've noticed that people love to go to extremes to explain away a difference in those around us. Psychologists also love to assign labels without truly understanding what's happening. It was the same for my shaking disorder... Benign Essential Tremor. It's amazing the crap that people (and doctors) will make up (in the name of science) to justify their on-the-spot diagnosing for something they don't understand... and won't admit that they have no real clue how to "fix" it.

The problem with disorders though is that you can't deal with them by pandering to them. In the media and such, there is so much pushing for the acceptance of being overweight, which is fine, except that it doesn't remain/stay at a specific weight. Gradually that degree of overweight increases, and increases until it's acceptable to be just shy of Obese. [it was the same with being underweight at one time..]

That it's acceptable for an overweight mother to encourage her children to be overweight too. (Or underweight.)

This is not about appearance. This is about health. Extremes are bad. And social pressure should be in existance to encourage people, not to go to extremes. It's not acceptable to be Obese. It's not acceptable to be Anorexic. Provide the services to help people to overcome these conditions.. but don't ever suggest that it's good to stay that way.

Is it difficult to change? Damn right it is. I've been doing muscle control exercises for 30 years so that I might someday be able to put a spoon of sugar in my cup without spilling it everywhere. (yup I use two hands). I also have reminders on my phone to tell me when to eat, and I have a food journal to monitor my daily/weekly intake, which is reviewed monthly by a close friend.

Society.. should be there to tell people that unhealthy extremes are bad. It's not fun for the person receiving the comments but that's the point. You're not going to change with everyone telling you that you're normal, that your weird appearance is beautiful, and that being so unhealthy is acceptable. Change comes from being unhappy with your situation, and realising that there are actually answers to help you change...

Ken. · 30-09-2017 06:51PM

Mod-Pilly,do not post in this thread again. Reason-Personal abuse

eyerer · 30-09-2017 06:57PM

They're big and beautiful.
Plus America is the fattest country.

30-09-2017 07:03PM

eyerer wrote: »

They're big and beautiful.
Plus America is the fattest country.

No, they're not. They're like 17th on the list. :rolleyes:

(at least on the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/the-most-obese-fattest-countries-in-the-world/)

mickrock · 30-09-2017 07:15PM

NEWSFLASH!

It seems that being "overweight" is healthier than being of "normal" weight. Although scientific studies indicate this, it's not considered PC to promote this sort of information. Here's what Dr Malcolm Kendrick has to say:

'Despite the fact that study after study has demonstrated quite clearly that "overweight" people live the longest, no one can bring themselves to say: "Sorry, we were wrong. A BMI between 25 and 29 is the healthiest weight of all. For those of you between 20 and 25, I say, eat more, become healthier." Who would dare say such a thing? Not anyone with tenure at a leading university, that's for sure.

In truth, this discussion should not quite stop here. For even when we get into those with a BMI greater than 30, those who truly are defined as "obese", the health dangers are greatly overestimated, mainly because of the widespread use of what I call the statistical "clumping game". Obesity researchers are world-leading experts at the clumping game. In most studies, the entire population is divided ("clumped") into four groups: underweight, normal weight, overweight and obese – obese being defined as a BMI of 30 and above. That means those with a BMI of 31 are clumped together as part of a group which includes those with a BMI of 50 – and above. What does this tell us about the health problems of having a BMI of 31? Well, absolutely nothing.

There is no doubt that becoming heavier and heavier must, at some point, damage your health and reduce your life expectancy. Where is this point? Well, it is certainly not anywhere between 25 and 30, and it could be even higher. Indeed, I have seen research on Italian women showing that a BMI of 33 was associated with the longest life expectancy. In other studies, where obesity was actually further sub-divided, those with a BMI between 30 and 35 lived longer than those of so-called "normal" weight.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-overweight-means-you-live-longer-the-way-scientists-twist-the-facts-10158229.html

BarryD2 · 30-09-2017 08:06PM

Bigbagofcans wrote: »

That's because many of us have normalised obesity.
People think the term obese means someone who is the size of a house but really a lot of people who think they're 'just' overweight are clinically obese.

In a study, more than a third (36%) of UK adults thought they were simply overweight when they were actually clinically obese.

That's what I suspected. But do you believe all clinicians, do we believe all anti drink zealots? There's a balance to be had and people who obsess over their weight are just as likely to be unhealthy as those who are way too fat. Those carrying a little extra and happy about it are probably the healthiest. That's my two cents anyway.

eyerer · 30-09-2017 08:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

eyerer wrote: »

They're big and beautiful.
Plus America is the fattest country.

No, they're not. They're like 17th on the list. :rolleyes:

(at least on the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/maps-and-graphics/the-most-obese-fattest-countries-in-the-world/))

Didn't mean to hit a nerve :rolleyes:
Your link contains too many brackets. An article I saw a while ago stated the US was #1

tomwaterford · 30-09-2017 08:33PM

Sieg Heil! wrote: »

It's actually depressing when you back form Eastern Europe and see how fat Irish girls are.

Don't ever go to Samoa kidd....it'll put you over the edge

(But they have an very similar humour to ireland so great laugh)

30-09-2017 08:43PM

eyerer wrote: »

Didn't mean to hit a nerve :rolleyes:
Your link contains too many brackets. An article I saw a while ago stated the US was #1

How does my response indicate you hitting a nerve? That Makes no sense.

Too many brackets mean that much to you? Strange. It was just a typo.

eyerer · 30-09-2017 09:40PM

It means when you click on it, it doesnt work

Permabear · 30-09-2017 10:26PM

This post has been deleted.

30-09-2017 10:29PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

This topic has nothing to do with suicide stop trying to lump that in to get the hearts and minds, its pathetic populism.

My understanding of that post is that the author was trying to convey the despair which many obese people feel. Yes, most people have free choice to a degree but the idea that somebody who is obese (as opposed to just overweight) is happy carrying 30kg or 40kg or 50kg extra on his person, sucking up his energy and life each and every day is just not credible - no matter how many chirpy fat women (or men) are given ostensibly happy roles in films. Aside from pulling an obese person's energy levels down, a huge range of health issues also arise directly from being obese. As time progresses these health problems increase greatly (the pandemic that is diabetes being the most obvious one).

When people get to a certain size, there is unquestionably a mental health issue, an addiction issue, involved. In that sense, it's not hard to see how many would feel despair with their lives - especially given that obesity is not generally treated as a complicated mental/addiction issue and thus people have little support to deal with the hell they're making out of their minds with their relationship with food.

screamer · 30-09-2017 10:59PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's what I suspected. But do you believe all clinicians, do we believe all anti drink zealots? There's a balance to be had and people who obsess over their weight are just as likely to be unhealthy as those who are way too fat. Those carrying a little extra and happy about it are probably the healthiest. That's my two cents anyway.

I agree. I know lots of people who are thin have a good BMI but are what I call internal storers and have huge blood pressure. I think there is a balance for sure but right now it's not being achieved.

Sam Kade · 30-09-2017 11:04PM

Op, what country is it not normal/ok to be obese in? Is it some sort of crime or something?

Bigbagofcans · 01-10-2017 12:01AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Op, what country is it not normal/ok to be obese in? Is it some sort of crime or something?

I'd say countries where people are very direct and tell their friends/family for example that they're fat to their face.

Hammer89 · 01-10-2017 01:33AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not about appearance. This is about health. Extremes are bad. And social pressure should be in existance to encourage people, not to go to extremes. It's not acceptable to be Obese. It's not acceptable to be Anorexic. Provide the services to help people to overcome these conditions.. but don't ever suggest that it's good to stay that way.

......And who is suggesting that it's good to remain obese? OP might very well be an absolute genius. This was a masterstroke in deception.

I'm going to start a thread asking why it's normal/okay for Irish people to be sh*tting in sinks. Then I'm going to make up a bunch of anecdotes about how often I've seen and heard about it. Then hopefully people will think, 'I completely agree. Sh*tting in sinks is horrendous carry on so it is' but it's a phenomenon which doesn't exist and neither does the narrative that Ireland is some sort of pro-obesity nation whose obese population are encouraged to glorify their lifestyle. He made it up. He's Kevin Spacey in The Usual Suspects and hopefully this is where your mug drops on the floor.

There is no Keyser Soze and there is no acceptance toward obesity in Irish society. I wish I could continue The Usual Suspects theme and say 'My guess is you'll never hear from OP again' but he'll be here tomorrow claiming he just saw a 18-stone woman win Miss Ireland or some other lie which supports his fake argument that Irish society encourages obesity.

Coffee Fulled Runner · 01-10-2017 01:40AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Op, what country is it not normal/ok to be obese in? Is it some sort of crime or something?

If not it should be... punishable by DEATH!!! Which inevitably is the outcome, sadly painfully through a avoidable disease brought on by having no self control... if only they read boards and got of their lard arse... :pac:

meeeeh · 01-10-2017 02:52AM

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

If not it should be... punishable by DEATH!!! Which inevitably is the outcome, sadly painfully through a avoidable disease brought on by having no self control... :pac:

As opposed to slim people who live forever?

Permabear · 01-10-2017 04:52AM

This post has been deleted.

01-10-2017 06:43AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

......And who is suggesting that it's good to remain obese? OP might very well be an absolute genius. This was a masterstroke in deception.

Did I misread what I quoted and responded to whereby it's bad to criticize those who are overly fat/obese, and that people who have never been obese shouldn't comment on obesity?

I'm going to start a thread asking why it's normal/okay for Irish people to be sh*tting in sinks. Then I'm going to make up a bunch of anecdotes about how often I've seen and heard about it. Then hopefully people will think, 'I completely agree. Sh*tting in sinks is horrendous carry on so it is' but it's a phenomenon which doesn't exist and neither does the narrative that Ireland is some sort of pro-obesity nation whose obese population are encouraged to glorify their lifestyle. He made it up. He's Kevin Spacey in The Usual Suspects and hopefully this is where your mug drops on the floor.

There is no Keyser Soze and there is no acceptance toward obesity in Irish society. I wish I could continue The Usual Suspects theme and say 'My guess is you'll never hear from OP again' but he'll be here tomorrow claiming he just saw a 18-stone woman win Miss Ireland or some other lie which supports his fake argument that Irish society encourages obesity.

Go ahead. Knock yourself out. It's after Hours. You'll always find someone to support your desire to be a muppet.

On the other hand, you could respond directly to what you just quoted and explain why you object.. I assume you figure I've totally misunderstood the post I quoted and went off on a ranting tangent (like you just did)?

s7ryf3925pivug · 01-10-2017 07:13AM

Because we inanely reassure each other.

-Am I getting fat?
-No it's all muscle, those scales are broken, have some cake.

Hammer89 · 01-10-2017 10:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Did I misread what I quoted and responded to whereby it's bad to criticize those who are overly fat/obese, and that people who have never been obese shouldn't comment on obesity?

You did indeed misread it, yes. I didn't respond to it because I thought it was a stupid allegation, in the same way I didn't respond to OP who alleged the exact same thing.

I never said you or anyone else shouldn't comment on obesity, or that I was the foremost expert on the subject having experienced it, but rest assured that if this was a 40-page thread about a rare shaking disorder - something you suffered with for decades - then you'd feel an obligation to point out myths, blatant lies and certain pig ignorance when you saw it. You absolutely would, because that's the right thing to do. You wouldn't tolerate the spread of false information and a lack of knowledge being spouted, because it's damaging, reckless and only consolidates people's misconception when you desperately want to change their perception.

You won't see me engage in a debate about your condition - it makes zero sense because I know nothing about it - but for some bizarre reason obesity is a subject where you don't necessarily need experience, knowledge or insight in order to speak about it. It's a free-for-all, and that's a problem. It's like asking a bunch of chimps to paint your house - they're going to make an absolute f*cking mess of it, and that's what the OP has achieved here.

If the masses did know more about it then that's a good thing. It stamps out the demonising and brings about the humanising. If the masses knew that "traumatic life experiences during childhood" - including "childhood sexual abuse" - were "common" among the obese population then that's a good thing. If the masses knew that "major weight loss is often sexually or physically threatening and that obesity, whatever its health risks, is protective emotionally" then that's a good thing. But we don't know any of this. It's easier to just run with the ill-informed opinion that obese people are lazy, greedy heaps of sh*t whose problems stem from a lack of self control.

Romantic Rose · 01-10-2017 10:51AM

Another issue I see is that every special occasion is an excuse to gorge. We never had that growing up. My parents didn't have the money to indulge us nor did my mother want that for us. We each got one treat on a Friday and you savoured that.

Now Halloween, Christmas, St.Patrick's Day, Easter is just a junk food fest from what I can see.
Spoiling children in all the wrong ways and encouraging greed basically.

When I was growing up, it was the simple things that mattered. At Halloween, we played bob for the apple or snap apple. We might have been given one bag of crisps, a wee bar and some fruit.

Nowadays children go Trick or Treating and expect to come back with huge bags of junk and they get it too.

My mother always taught us, you are what you eat. An important mantra to remember.

01-10-2017 11:13AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

You did indeed misread it, yes. I didn't respond to it because I thought it was a stupid allegation, in the same way I didn't respond to OP who alleged the exact same thing.

But you did respond to it but not about the content, but rather in an insulting dismissive manner.

I never said you or anyone else shouldn't comment on obesity, or that I was the foremost expert on the subject having experienced it, but rest assured that if this was a 40-page thread about a rare shaking disorder - something you suffered with for decades - then you'd feel an obligation to point out myths, blatant lies and certain pig ignorance when you saw it. You absolutely would, because that's the right thing to do. You wouldn't tolerate the spread of false information and a lack of knowledge being spouted, because it's damaging, reckless and only consolidates people's misconception when you desperately want to change their perception.

You take on a lot about what I would or would not do in such a circumstance. I raised two personal references. That I had been accused of being Anorexic, and I had a shakng disorder. You jumped on the shaking disorder as an excuse to dismiss my post rather than my experience of a similar eating disorder.

I have no issue with you providing information that shows that my or other peoples claims are incorrect. Fact is, I would love to see such proof... but you did not provide anything to refute what I said.

You won't see me engage in a debate about your condition - it makes zero sense because I know nothing about it - but for some bizarre reason obesity is a subject where you don't necessarily need experience, knowledge or insight in order to speak about it. It's a free-for-all, and that's a problem. It's like asking a bunch of chimps to paint your house - they're going to make an absolute f*cking mess of it, and that's what the OP has achieved here.

Any topic should be open to discussion. By your logic, no doctor, or psychologist should treat Obese people unless they have been obese themselves at some stage. No poster on boards can look online at the research published about obesity and comment on it because they haven't experienced obesity themselves.

You say that "I never said you or anyone else shouldn't comment on obesity, or that I was the foremost expert on the subject having experienced it" and yet, you've just sought to shut down discussion based on your experience of obesity. That only you or those who have experienced obesity are qualified to discuss it, because any other opinion is counter to yours, and therefore worthless.

If the masses did know more about it then that's a good thing. It stamps out the demonising and brings about the humanising. If the masses knew that "traumatic life experiences during childhood" - including "childhood sexual abuse" - were "common" among the obese population then that's a good thing. If the masses knew that "major weight loss is often sexually or physically threatening and that obesity, whatever its health risks, is protective emotionally" then that's a good thing. But we don't know any of this. It's easier to just run with the ill-informed opinion that obese people are lazy, greedy heaps of sh*t whose problems stem from a lack of self control.

I just love stereotyping. The fact that we can take a condition, illness or such, and lump everyone that experiences it, into one solid group. It's so damn convenient. :rolleyes:

But the truth is that some people are as you said. Victims. Mentally or emotionally damaged in some way. And some are lazy ****s that embrace a certain lifestyle.

Nobody is saying that all obese people are that way due to a lack of self-control. (and if they are, then they're naive morons) But there will be a group that is. There will be many different groups and they should all be discussed, identified, and ways developed to resolve the issues. Shutting down discussions as being ignorant prevents that cultural/social development of solutions from ocurring.

Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

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