Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Hotel Cancels Pro life event due to Intimidation.

1…3435373940…42

Comments

  • #1082
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Since when is it Illegal, last year + earlier year the group ( Rosa ) went around a bus tour of the country with abortion pills, if its lllegal as you claim then why weren,t they arrested ?
    This sort of information must not be made available by means of billboards, public notices or by unsolicited books and newspapers.
    These rules apply regardless of who is giving the information – it could be a bookshop, an advice centre or a doctor.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_services/women_s_health/abortion_information_the_law.html

    Right here.
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    And if get their meetings canceled you help to push them underground which is far more dangerous in my view, if they have a public meeting you can see exactly what they are saying & people can turn up & speak from the floor & say to them " your claims are false numerous studies as such & such debunk your claim " etc, if you push them underground & if they hold secret meetings with people they meet online you don,t know what exactly they d be telling such people once they re pushed underground vs if you let them speak out in the open you can see exactly they re telling people.

    The simple fact is that vaccination rates have dropped as a direct result of such groups. This is regardless of information campaigns.. They never shut up so they won't end up underground btw. The talks of such groups do not involve debate btw, they're shouting at the converted.


  • #1083
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Making false claims about a person vs someone making false claims about contraception or other such stuff are not the same thing, for example if ( John Doe ) says ( person x ) is a sex offender & ( person x ) isn,t a sex offender- person x is an innocent person then ( Person x ) should be able sue ( John Doe ) & get their name cleared etc, now if ( John doe ) says such & such a method of contraception doesn,t work Johns claim can be debunked with facts + studies, John isn,t making false claims about a person as a method of contraception isn,t a person .
    That should not matter though, as you said you don't think pro lifers should be prevented from lying because if they do, those lies can be debunked. Likewise if I organise a public event talking about who you might be a paedophile and put posters all over the country promoting this event.

    It also assumes that if I can weasel word around it well enough (something like "Is The Legend of Kira a child molester? We discuss, you decide! Radisson Hotel, October 10th 2017 at 8pm"), you would have no issue with that either.

    And should the makers of contraception (very large pharmaceutical companies able to spend a hell of a lot on on legal teams at the top of a hat) be allowed to sue pro lifers for lying about their them in order to get their product's name cleared? I can't imagine a lot of the pro lifers would be too happy with being forced to stick to verifiable facts.


  • #1084
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    Billy86 wrote: »
    That's a pretty weak argument, trying to blanket claim that on all issues both sides are equally Americanised which simply isn't true. This is one example, as pro life groups in Ireland are easily more Americanised than pro choice groups.

    Let me break it down really simple for you. Ireland is becoming more like America in how debates on a lot of issues play out. Simple.

    Only the other day someone referred to other posters (that had opposing views) on a thread as alt-right Trump supporters. It's boards.ie... ie as in Ireland.


  • #1085
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Fake Sheikh wrote: »
    Let me break it down really simple for you. Ireland is becoming more like America in how debates on a lot of issues play out. Simple.

    Only the other day someone referred to other posters (that had opposing views) on a thread as alt-right Trump supporters. It's boards.ie... ie as in Ireland.

    Let me put it even simpler for you. The abortion debate has been going on decades. The debate is the same. It's always been a highly emotive debate.

    It isn't a new thing.


  • #1086
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Let me put it even simpler for you. The abortion debate has been going on decades. The debate is the same. It's always been a highly emotive debate.

    It isn't a new thing.

    And people contacting hotels to tell them who it's ok for them to rent out their space to, is that an old thing or a new thing?


  • Advertisement
  • #1087
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    barneystinson wrote: »
    And people contacting hotels to tell them who it's ok for them to rent out their space to, is that an old thing or a new thing?

    Yes. It's never be done before. Never baby. Never. Damn progressives with their opinions and gumption. How fecking dare they.

    How dare they speak up. How fecking dare they baby. Woo! Those damn limousine driving, jet flying, kiss stealin'.. Woo! Wheeling and dealing.. Son of a guns! Woo! Woo! Wooooo!


  • #1088
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Yes. It's never be done before. Never baby. Never. Damn progressives with their opinions and gumption. How fecking dare they.

    How dare they speak up. How fecking dare they baby. Woo! Those damn limousine driving, jet flying, kiss stealin'.. Woo! Wheeling and dealing.. Son of a guns! Woo! Woo! Wooooo!

    for some reason I'm not surprised this thread has descended to this..


  • #1089
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Yes. It's never be done before. Never baby. Never. Damn progressives with their opinions and gumption. How fecking dare they.

    How dare they speak up. How fecking dare they baby. Woo! Those damn limousine driving, jet flying, kiss stealin'.. Woo! Wheeling and dealing.. Son of a guns! Woo! Woo! Wooooo!

    Are you making assumptions about my general beliefs/values simply because I don't agree with trying to deny other people the opportunity to make their (flawed/incorrect) case...?


  • #1090
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    barneystinson wrote: »
    And people contacting hotels to tell them who it's ok for them to rent out their space to, is that an old thing or a new thing?

    Yes. It's never be done before. Never baby. Never. Damn progressives with their opinions and gumption. How fecking dare they.

    How dare they speak up. How fecking dare they baby. Woo! Those damn limousine driving, jet flying, kiss stealin'.. Woo! Wheeling and dealing.. Son of a guns! Woo! Woo! Wooooo!

    And to paraphrase a previous post that is probably the most coherent argument of the pro choice posters on this thread.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1091
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    And to paraphrase a previous post that is probably the most coherent argument of the pro choice posters on this thread.

    Haven't you got Some George Soros conspiracies to read up on. Where are those abortion pills from? .


  • Advertisement
  • #1092
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Are you making assumptions about my general beliefs/values simply because I don't agree with trying to deny other people the opportunity to make their (flawed/incorrect) case...?

    Who's denying ? The hotel? I'm sure their facebook and email details are easy to find if you want to express yourself:).


    edit: Wooo!


  • #1093
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Who's denying ? The hotel? I'm sure their facebook and email details are easy to find if you want to express yourself:).


    edit: Wooo!

    Very mature. Are you having a few Friday afternoon shandies or something.

    I said people contacting the hotels referred to in this thread were trying to deny the groups they dislike, an opportunity to speak. Do you think otherwise?

    Woooooooo. (Anything you can woo I can woo better. My woo is bigger than yours, etc...)


  • #1094
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Very mature. Are you having a few Friday afternoon shandies or something.

    I said people contacting the hotels referred to in this thread were trying to deny the groups they dislike, an opportunity to speak. Do you think otherwise?

    Woooooooo. (Anything you can woo I can woo better. My woo is bigger than yours, etc...)

    Nope..just don't understand why you decided to quote me when I was quoting someone else . So you got the answer you wanted.

    Of course people are allowed. If you don't like it , i suggest emailing the hotels

    info@ashlinghotel.ie
    sales@thespencerhotel.com

    you can create and use such free email services such as

    https://login.yahoo.com/
    gmail.com


  • #1095
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    The Fake Sheikh wrote: »
    Let me break it down really simple for you. Ireland is becoming more like America in how debates on a lot of issues play out. Simple.

    Only the other day someone referred to other posters (that had opposing views) on a thread as alt-right Trump supporters. It's boards.ie... ie as in Ireland.
    Yes, Ireland is - it's largely the pull of the internet I reckon. But that does not negate from the fact that the pro lifers are considerably more Americanised than the pro-choice crowd. It is indeed very simple.

    And Ireland has both Trump supporters and alt-right believers (political ideologies are not confined to geographic borders), though each are in a decided enough minority to barely have any relevance.


  • #1096
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    barneystinson wrote: »
    And people contacting hotels to tell them who it's ok for them to rent out their space to, is that an old thing or a new thing?
    Funny you should mention that....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott
    The word boycott entered the English language during the Irish "Land War" and derives eponymously from Captain Charles Boycott, the land agent of an absentee landlord, Lord Erne, who lived in Lough Mask House, near Ballinrobe in County Mayo, Ireland, who was subject to social ostracism organized by the Irish Land League in 1880. As harvests had been poor that year, Lord Erne offered his tenants a ten percent reduction in their rents. In September of that year, protesting tenants demanded a twenty five percent reduction, which Lord Erne refused. Boycott then attempted to evict eleven tenants from the land. Charles Stewart Parnell, in a speech in Ennis prior to the events in Lough Mask, proposed that when dealing with tenants who take farms where another tenant was evicted, rather than resorting to violence, everyone in the locality should shun them. While Parnell's speech did not refer to land agents or landlords, the tactic was first applied to Boycott when the alarm was raised about the evictions. Despite the short-term economic hardship to those undertaking this action, Boycott soon found himself isolated – his workers stopped work in the fields and stables, as well as in his house. Local businessmen stopped trading with him, and the local postman refused to deliver mail.


  • #1097
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    January wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Since when is it Illegal, last year + earlier year the group ( Rosa ) went around a bus tour of the country with abortion pills, if its lllegal as you claim then why weren,t they arrested ?

    They didn't actually have pills on the bus
    Im quoting an article from the journal.ie about the abortion pills bus.

    [font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]""  PRO-CHOICE ACTIVISTS are to deliver illegal abortion pills to women across the country over the next two days as part of a campaign to repeal the eighth amendment.[/font]
    [font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]The Socialist Party’s Rosa campaign group left Dublin this morning on board a bus carrying the World Health Organisation-approved drugs. ""[/font]

    [font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]429283.png[/font]


    [font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Given they went around the country doing this, I find it very odd none of them were brought to court or anything, all I can say the law giving out abortion information mustn,t be as strong as some are making it out to be .[/font]


  • #1098
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Akrasia wrote: »
    I phrased it poorly, what I meant was that women who are denied abortions are much more likely to commit suicide as a result of being forced to carry the baby, than women who have access to safe and legal abortion


    What about all the women who commit suicide while still pregnant

    You say you phrased your post poorly.
    This is what you said:

    The unbroken group is almost as bad as the Human Life International group.

    They spread lies by saying women who have an abortion after a rape are more likely to commit suicide than if they had the baby which is the exact opposite of the truth

    But they didn't spread lies. You lied. What you said is the exact opposite of the truth.

    The whole crux of this thread has been posters justifying the hotel cancelling an event because the speakers would lie. Yet when lies are told on here they aren't condemned, they are "thanked" by many of the cheerleaders for condemning others for lying and denying them a platform even though, in this instance they are telling the truth!

    Will you apologise for calling these women liars? Will you apologise for lying yourself?

    Then you throw in whataboutery regarding all the pregnant women who die by suicide.
    Yet you ignore the fact that some of the countries with the highest female suicide rates also have some of the most liberal abortion laws.

    Am I to assume that male suicide rates in Ireland are 10 times that of females because males can never have an abortion?

    The female suicide rate in the UK where the abortion regime is extremely liberal is at a 10 year high and is much higher than the female abortion rate in Ireland where abortion is very restrictive.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1099
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Billy86 wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Making false claims about a person vs someone making false claims about contraception or other such stuff are not the same thing, for example if ( John Doe ) says ( person x ) is a sex offender & ( person x ) isn,t a sex offender- person x is an innocent person then ( Person x ) should be able sue ( John Doe ) & get their name cleared etc, now if ( John doe ) says such & such a method of contraception doesn,t work Johns claim can be debunked with facts + studies, John isn,t making false claims about a person as a method of contraception isn,t a person .
    That should not matter though, as you said you don't think pro lifers should be prevented from lying because if they do, those lies can be debunked. Likewise if I organise a public event talking about who you might be a paedophile and put posters all over the country promoting this event.

    It also assumes that if I can weasel word around it well enough (something like "Is The Legend of Kira a child molester? We discuss, you decide! Radisson Hotel, October 10th 2017 at 8pm"), you would have no issue with that either.

    And should the makers of contraception (very large pharmaceutical companies able to spend a hell of a lot on on legal teams at the top of a hat) be allowed to sue pro lifers for lying about their them in order to get their product's name cleared? I can't imagine a lot of the pro lifers would be too happy with being forced to stick to verifiable facts.
    Defaming a person vs claiming certain products aren,t safe are hardly the same thing now, as a product is something manufactered/something created, if a a person is defamed he/she should be allowed pursue legal action to clear his/her name, if certain people are saying such & such isn,t safe all the company has to do is refer to different studies to debunk such claims, for example certain groups + certain individuals go around saying fluoride is dangerous- I don,t think I have to mention names most people will know who Im on about. such groups don,t need to be silenced nor no platformed if they book a venue , as there is different studies available debunking their claims about fluoride being dangerous.

    http://ilikemyteeth.org/debunking-unreliable-claims-the-harvard-study/

    http://msof.nz/2016/02/debunking-anti-fluoride-woo****ery-and-pseudoscience/

    https://sciblogs.co.nz/open-parachute/2017/02/26/epa-debunks-anti-fluoride-claims/

    "" you said you don't think pro lifers should be prevented from lying ""

    I didn,t say such a quote, what I actually said if you read it properly.

    "" as I haven,t studied med- I have no idea if their claim is accurate or not, Id need to do my own research on that claim , but here,s an idea if they are telling lies regarding breast cancer like some people are saying would it not of been a good idea for someone on the opposing side to of gone to their meeting record what they say about breast cancer , & if its not accurate etc report them to the referendum commission ? the referendum commission will be sending out brochures in the coming months regarding the facts of the referendum , if the claims by  ( Human Life International ) are untrue then won,t the referendum commission include something debunking false claims in their information brochure they l be sending out to households prior to the referendum ? ""

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104820310&postcount=1025


  • #1100
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    barneystinson wrote: »
    And people contacting hotels to tell them who it's ok for them to rent out their space to, is that an old thing or a new thing?

    Yes. It's never be done before. Never baby. Never. Damn progressives with their opinions and gumption. How fecking dare they.

    How dare they speak up. How fecking dare they baby. Woo! Those damn limousine driving, jet flying, kiss stealin'.. Woo! Wheeling and dealing.. Son of a guns! Woo! Woo! Wooooo!
    Yes so called progressives who want to silence women who have being raped from speaking, how very progressive of them .


  • #1101
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    barneystinson wrote: »
    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Let me put it even simpler for you. The abortion debate has been going on decades. The debate is the same. It's always been a highly emotive debate.

    It isn't a new thing.

    And people contacting hotels to tell them who it's ok for them to rent out their space to, is that an old thing or a new thing?
    It appears to be a new thing, the last few referendums ( Fiscal treaty/ 2012 ) ( Seanad Referendum/2013 ) +  ( Same sex marriage/2015 ) does anyone recall or remember mobs trying to pressure venues to cancel meetings booked by the opposing side ?  because I certainly don,t  ,


  • Advertisement
  • #1102
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Yes so called progressives who want to silence women who have being raped from speaking, how very progressive of them .

    Women who have being raped ??????????????


  • #1103
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Yes so called progressives who want to silence women who have being raped from speaking, how very progressive of them .

    Women who have being raped ??????????????
    Yes women who have being raped like Jennifer on the poster.

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751399984824322

    Jennifer is a rape victim, why do some people want rape victims like Jennifer to be silenced ?


  • #1104
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Yes women who have being raped like Jennifer on the poster.

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751399984824322

    Jennifer is a rape victim, why do some people want rape victims like Jennifer to be silenced ?

    Isn't she american where she had the choice?


  • #1105
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Defaming a person vs claiming certain products aren,t safe are hardly the same thing now, as a product is something manufactered/something created, if a a person is defamed he/she should be allowed pursue legal action to clear his/her name, if certain people are saying such & such isn,t safe all the company has to do is refer to different studies to debunk such claims, for example certain groups + certain individuals go around saying fluoride is dangerous- I don,t think I have to mention names most people will know who Im on about. such groups don,t need to be silenced nor no platformed if they book a venue , as there is different studies available debunking their claims about fluoride being dangerous.
    If a person is defamed, it hurts their reputation. If a company is defamed it hurts their reputation.

    It's inconsistent to say your reason for thinking it's grand for people to lie to others about facts like contraception as the lies can be debunked so they should not have means for legal recourse, yet it is not ok to lie to others about people as the lies can be debunked so they should have means for legal recourse.
    http://ilikemyteeth.org/debunking-unreliable-claims-the-harvard-study/

    http://msof.nz/2016/02/debunking-anti-fluoride-woo****ery-and-pseudoscience/

    https://sciblogs.co.nz/open-parachute/2017/02/26/epa-debunks-anti-fluoride-claims/
    And yet, tonnes of people still believe in all of these. Likewise similar studies or any amount of undeniable evidence to show contraception does not cause cancer etc are not going to convince people who have already bought into the lie recoup lost earnings from those pharmaceutical companies. Hard Brexiteers and Trump fans are another good example. Lie often enough and confidently enough from enough different angles, and a large number of people will get convinced strong enough just stop caring about the actual truth when people try to debunk it.
    "" you said you don't think pro lifers should be prevented from lying ""

    I didn,t say such a quote, what I actually said if you read it properly.

    "" as I haven,t studied med- I have no idea if their claim is accurate or not, Id need to do my own research on that claim , but here,s an idea if they are telling lies regarding breast cancer like some people are saying would it not of been a good idea for someone on the opposing side to of gone to their meeting record what they say about breast cancer , & if its not accurate etc report them to the referendum commission ? the referendum commission will be sending out brochures in the coming months regarding the facts of the referendum , if the claims by  ( Human Life International ) are untrue then won,t the referendum commission include something debunking false claims in their information brochure they l be sending out to households prior to the referendum ? ""

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104820310&postcount=1025
    You just said it again - that they should be allowed lie, and others just have to point out the lie and all is fine, apparently. Except debunking it won't matter if they've already sold the idea hard to people through a constant barrage of lies, which the pro life crowd have proven to hardly be against doing. For an example of this again see: Trump, Brexit. I hope they're enjoying that £350mn for the NHS - was that debunked in their referendum, and if so how much good did that do?

    If you keep throwing out enough outlandish lies there is not enough room to debunk them all, and the more outlandish they are the less likely they can be to be debunked because it appears too obvious to most to be worthwhile. Pro life groups know this, hence claims like rape pregnancies literally don't even exist because a woman's body magically shuts down when she's not in the mood for it herself. Or that foetuses would not be aborted if they had guns on them. Or that getting abortions cause mass shootings and murders of innocent children. Or that 15 week old foetuses masturbate.

    These are all actual claims made, along with probably hundreds of other equally insane ones, because if you keep hitting people with powerful lie after powerful lie, they stop believing the truth no matter what is put to them debunking it or proving otherwise. And there's only a) so much space on the referendum documents, and b) so much time the voters have to read through it.


  • #1106
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Yeah that's the odd thing - the rights of rape victims to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy are in no way threatened by the campaign to repeal the 8th amendment.

    The 8th prevents rape victims from having any choice in the matter.

    Pro-choice means supporting the rights of all, including victims of rape, to Choose whether or not to remain pregnant. By lending their support to the pro-life movement, the women in question are declaring that women who were victims of rape, like themselves should be denied a right that they themselves had.


  • #1107
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Interesting that Peader Toibin is contradicting claims yesterday that there no threats from the hotel, he says he spoke to the manager.

    https://twitter.com/Toibin1/status/913777235819155456

    https://twitter.com/Toibin1/status/913777431655407616


  • #1108
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Yeah that's the odd thing - the rights of rape victims to choose whether or not to continue with a pregnancy are in no way threatened by the campaign to repeal the 8th amendment.

    The 8th prevents rape victims from having any choice in the matter.

    Pro-choice means supporting the rights of all, including victims of rape, to Choose whether or not to remain pregnant. By lending their support to the pro-life movement, the women in question are declaring that women who were victims of rape, like themselves should be denied a right that they themselves had.

    No. Pro choice means denying the right to life of those currently protected under the 8th amendment of the constitution.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #1109
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Billy86 wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Defaming a person vs claiming certain products aren,t safe are hardly the same thing now, as a product is something manufactered/something created, if a a person is defamed he/she should be allowed pursue legal action to clear his/her name, if certain people are saying such & such isn,t safe all the company has to do is refer to different studies to debunk such claims, for example certain groups + certain individuals go around saying fluoride is dangerous- I don,t think I have to mention names most people will know who Im on about. such groups don,t need to be silenced nor no platformed if they book a venue , as there is different studies available debunking their claims about fluoride being dangerous.
    If a person is defamed, it hurts their reputation. If a company is defamed it hurts their reputation.

    It's inconsistent to say your reason for thinking it's grand for people to lie to others about facts like contraception as the lies can be debunked so they should not have means for legal recourse, yet it is not ok to lie to others about people as the lies can be debunked so they should have means for legal recourse.
    http://ilikemyteeth.org/debunking-unreliable-claims-the-harvard-study/

    http://msof.nz/2016/02/debunking-anti-fluoride-woo****ery-and-pseudoscience/

    https://sciblogs.co.nz/open-parachute/2017/02/26/epa-debunks-anti-fluoride-claims/
    And yet, tonnes of people still believe in all of these. Likewise similar studies or any amount of undeniable evidence to show contraception does not cause cancer etc are not going to convince people who have already bought into the lie recoup lost earnings from those pharmaceutical companies. Hard Brexiteers and Trump fans are another good example. Lie often enough and confidently enough from enough different angles, and a large number of people will get convinced strong enough just stop caring about the actual truth when people try to debunk it.
    "" you said you don't think pro lifers should be prevented from lying ""

    I didn,t say such a quote, what I actually said if you read it properly.

    "" as I haven,t studied med- I have no idea if their claim is accurate or not, Id need to do my own research on that claim , but here,s an idea if they are telling lies regarding breast cancer like some people are saying would it not of been a good idea for someone on the opposing side to of gone to their meeting record what they say about breast cancer , & if its not accurate etc report them to the referendum commission ? the referendum commission will be sending out brochures in the coming months regarding the facts of the referendum , if the claims by  ( Human Life International ) are untrue then won,t the referendum commission include something debunking false claims in their information brochure they l be sending out to households prior to the referendum ? ""

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104820310&postcount=1025
    You just said it again - that they should be allowed lie, and others just have to point out the lie and all is fine, apparently. Except debunking it won't matter if they've already sold the idea hard to people through a constant barrage of lies, which the pro life crowd have proven to hardly be against doing. For an example of this again see: Trump, Brexit. I hope they're enjoying that £350mn for the NHS - was that debunked in their referendum, and if so how much good did that do?

    If you keep throwing out enough outlandish lies there is not enough room to debunk them all, and the more outlandish they are the less likely they can be to be debunked because it appears too obvious to most to be worthwhile. Pro life groups know this, hence claims like rape pregnancies literally don't even exist because a woman's body magically shuts down when she's not in the mood for it herself. Or that foetuses would not be aborted if they had guns on them. Or that getting abortions cause mass shootings and murders of innocent children. Or that 15 week old foetuses masturbate.

    These are all actual claims made, along with probably hundreds of other equally insane ones, because if you keep hitting people with powerful lie after powerful lie, they stop believing the truth no matter what is put to them debunking it or proving otherwise. And there's only a) so much space on the referendum documents, and b) so much time the voters have to read through it.
    "" And yet, tonnes of people still believe in all of these ""

    Only a small per % believe in such stuff, if a big per % were taking such stuff seriously one would think there,d be a big drop in sales- which hasn,t happened .


  • #1110
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    No. Pro choice means denying the right to life of those currently protected under the 8th amendment of the constitution.

    Forgive me, I should have clarified that I was referring to all persons in actual existence, not potential persons.


  • Advertisement
  • #1111
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    No. Pro choice means denying the right to life of those currently protected under the 8th amendment of the constitution.

    No it doesn't, no matter how many times you say it

    Pro-choice does not mean compulsory abortions for anyone


Advertisement