The Offseason 2017

brady23 · 25-09-2017 2:43pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Going to be a bloody long season to be a Bulls fan, tanking I can understand (and looking at that roster, we're perfectly set up for it), but even with a lottery pick to show for it,there's no guarantee the pair of clowns that are passed off as a front office will use it wisely.

PG:
Kris Dunn
Jerian Grant
Cameron Payne

SG:
Justin Holiday
Denzel Valentine
David Nwaba

SF:
Zach LaVine
Paul Zipser
Quincy Pondexter

PF:
Nikola Mirotic
Bobby Portis
Lauri Markkanen

C:
Robin Lopez
Cristiano Felicio

Yeah but I think you have some nice young players.
I like Portis. I dont think he made any jump last year but he'll get a chance this year.

Markkanen was a stand out this summer.
When I watched him at Arizona I thought he's a great shooter(some argued best in the draft) but I thought he lacked fluidity and looked like he had a slow release. People whispered Dirk but I seen more Barngani. I've come around to him a bit. He'll be interesting.
LaVine produced the same advanced stats as Wiggins but nobody was as high on him including Thibs. I think the perception is Wiggins has a higher ceiling but if he recovers athletically which I assume he will you have to like him as much as Wiggins this far anyway and Wiggins is going to be a max player so you may get LaVine at a discount.

Dunn needs a massive leap which I don't think he has. He's a bust to me. Some hope for sure but definitely aiming at Bagley, Porter or Doncic.

Paully D · 25-09-2017 11:22pm

For Forks Sake wrote: »

but even with a lottery pick to show for it,there's no guarantee the pair of clowns that are passed off as a front office will use it wisely.

This is the top and bottom of it really. They won't even be able to tank properly.

Utter, utter ****ing clowns is what they are. Given the resources they have, they are the worst front office in the league all things considered IMO.

Paully D · 25-09-2017 11:25pm

I have to say LeBron has been excellent on the whole Trump thing.

Great to see someone of his stature and standing being so outspoken on this and doing so so articulately, because it would be very easy for him to say nothing.

ButtersSuki · 26-09-2017 5:37pm

For ****s and giggles I searched how many times I'd written about Melo on boards - 98 times. I'm glad to see I was wholly consistent on him. Needless to say I don't share the complimentary view many on here have of him. In a nutshell, his biggest weaknesses have always been that he wants money, fame and individual stats more than winning. I've always said he's the kinda guy who'd rather score 50 and lose than 2 and win. I've played with guys like that and they suck the life out of a team.

From September 25th 2010 (when it looked like he was going to the Nets and not the Knicks):
To be honest, I'm getting a bit fed up of marquee players ditching their teams - it's all becoming a bit too much like soccer for my liking.

Can't see how this is a good move for Melo going from a team that consistently averages around the 50+wins to the worst team in the league unless they trade again next summer for Chris Paul or some other player(s) of similar abilities....

Chicago would have been a better move IMO.....but hey, what would I know?!!

I suppose getting to live in Manhattan and play in Brooklyn in 2012 are an attraction, even if you have to spend the next two years in Newark

I wrote so much more, and yes, I gave credit where it was due. He was an elite scorer in his prime, but he's past that. I even gave credit for his rebounding effort (not a word you associate with Melo all that much) in 2013 where he flirted at 9 RPG for the start of the season but ended up averaging 8.1. I've also praised some of his Olympic performances. But bottom line, I can think of many players I'd take before him because of his selfishness and putting his own stats about winning.

Gregk961 · 26-09-2017 5:58pm

I wouldnt be a big Melo fan either but ive always taken his Team USA performances as a sign that he can MAYBE take a backseat for the team. As a spot up shooter I think Melo could be a success, if he is just there to get his then its going to be a flop.

Im not sure how 3 ball dominant players can coexist in OKC but it should at least be fun to watch all the inevitable hero ball between the 3 of them. Houston will be another interesting one with 2 noted ball hogs lining up together.

brady23 · 26-09-2017 7:37pm

It is hard to see how everyone on that team gets theirs. The rotation will staggered I'm sure in such a way that they all are go to at some point.
I assume PG13 is the most likely to take the hit in terms of usage though even though based on the past few years it should be Melo.

Their other 2 starters are the epitome of role players who'll do all the grunt work which is great for balance but spacing won't be great. The offense could be very iso-centric and lumber along which just doesn't win in the league right now.
Bench is horrific and I think working out team chemistry and touches will probably take longer than most teams given you have 3 true alphas.

I think all that said and the obvious depth in the West I think they'll be borderline top 4.

Warriors and Rockets should get 1-2 given age and reduced minutes/production from 2 Spurs starters Parker and Aldridge.
I think the Twolves will get 3rd given post all star production from Towns, Teagues additional spacing and Butler being so good and likely to quickly mesh.
The battle will be between the Spurs and OKC I think. The famous last words of lots of NBA fans "I'm low on the Spurs this year". I'm sure I'll eat those words but they're outside top 4 for me

nerd69 · 26-09-2017 10:39pm

Paully D wrote: »

This is the top and bottom of it really. They won't even be able to tank properly.

Utter, utter ****ing clowns is what they are. Given the resources they have, they are the worst front office in the league all things considered IMO.

Fortunately for them the knocks are still a thing

Paully D · 26-09-2017 11:07pm

Wade signing for Cleveland in the least surprising news ever.

In other news, LeBron, Wade, Melo and Paul can all become free agents in 2018. One last chance to put the band together somewhere?

ButtersSuki · 27-09-2017 10:45am

Poor old Kendrick Perkins gets cut to accommodate Wade.

ButtersSuki · 27-09-2017 10:52am

Paully D wrote: »

Wade signing for Cleveland in the least surprising news ever.

In other news, LeBron, Wade, Melo and Paul can all become free agents in 2018. One last chance to put the band together somewhere?

The Banana Boat Team*, lots of rumours about this over the last few years. Hard to see how anyone can make it work financially unless they all make the sacrifice - which in fairness given their career earning + endorsements shouldn't be too hard to do - but LeBron is the only one playing at anything near peak anymore. Would have been a very interesting experiment to see how it would have worked had it happened a few years ago but even those 4 + AN Other wouldn't beat GS.

When The Big 3 were in Miami the Heat tied to trade Bosh for Melo and that would have seen 3 of them together but I think even that trade would have backfired on Miami as Bosh gave them things Melo couldn't.

*There's a Banana Boat 2018 Team podcast on Open Floor from the start of the summer, worth listening to if you're really interested.

brady23 · 27-09-2017 3:47pm

I don't know whether it's my interest in following the NBA has increased as time has gone on but this season seems to be one of the most intriguing if not the most intriguing for me.

The plethora of sub plots leading into this season is great from championship contenders to bottom feeders so many teams have something going on that is yet to unfold.

I'm personally looking forward to ROY which seems wide open and so deep. Along with that draft lottery reforms and how that will hurt or help mostly the Cavs

76ers with Embiid Simmons Saric and Fultz. Hinkie possibly recognised as a savant.

Lakers and the Lonzo train which reminds me of McGregor vs Mayweather where a play-off year is incredibly improbable but the hype makes you doubt its not impossible for a moment

Collection of super teams and now super-super teams and how they gel.

Very exciting year ahead

ButtersSuki · 27-09-2017 6:52pm

brady23 wrote: »

I don't know whether it's my interest in following the NBA has increased as time has gone on but this season seems to be one of the most intriguing if not the most intriguing for me.

The plethora of sub plots leading into this season is great from championship contenders to bottom feeders so many teams have something going on that is yet to unfold.

I'm personally looking forward to ROY which seems wide open and so deep. Along with that draft lottery reforms and how that will hurt or help mostly the Cavs

76ers with Embiid Simmons Saric and Fultz. Hinkie possibly recognised as a savant.

Lakers and the Lonzo train which reminds me of McGregor vs Mayweather where a play-off year is incredibly improbable but the hype makes you doubt its not impossible for a moment

Collection of super teams and now super-super teams and how they gel.

Very exciting year ahead

Did you read the resignation letter I posted form him a few months ago?

He was on a podcast I listened to a while back - think it was one of the ringer pods but it may have been openfloor. I'm telling you, he's an awful lot smarter than he was given credit for being. If my team was lounging in mediocrity I'd want him. Hell, if my team was winning I'd want him on board.

Paully D · 27-09-2017 7:45pm

brady23 wrote: »

I don't know whether it's my interest in following the NBA has increased as time has gone on but this season seems to be one of the most intriguing if not the most intriguing for me.

Very exciting year ahead

I've never been less interested, to be honest. Cavs are all but guaranteed a Finals spot and if we're lucky, the Warriors might be forced to break sweat in the West.

brady23 · 27-09-2017 9:23pm

Paully D wrote: »

I've never been less interested, to be honest. Cavs are all but guaranteed a Finals spot and if we're lucky, the Warriors might be forced to break sweat in the West.

That's very true. I feel like we're essentially looking at 2 different leagues.

Regular season with sub plots I mentioned and the post season which will have some good match ups in the West till the finals then the Warriors walk it and East will be a walk for Celtics and Cavs and their finals will be decent.

The regular season has been sub par for a long time but I do think with what has happened this post season it sets up a more exciting season than recent years.

I personally always liked Hinkies concept. My only issue with it regarding the 76ers was I felt the franchise was big enough to compete in the open market. I thought the concept would have been more accepted and applicable to perhaps the Bucks

brady23 · 28-09-2017 9:55pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20851002/nba-board-governors-votes-pass-legislation-draft-lottery-reform-guidelines-resting-healthy-players

Graph at the end of the article shows the draft reform to take effect from 2019 onwards.

I don't think it is as much of a deterrent to teams tanking tbh at least in the short term.

Teams that finish in the last 3 positions are most at risk obviously but given you only have a 3/1 chance of getting top pick it isn't too different from expected return.

I wasn't aware but a team who finishes last has an expected position of 2.6 currently which changes to 3.7
2nd pick moves from 3.0 to 3.9 and 3rd position goes from 3.4 to 4.1
Perhaps it prevents systematic multi season tanking to a point but I don't think it changes too many teams short term plans.

Paully D · 28-09-2017 10:13pm

Melo says there was a deal done for him and George to go to Cleveland on draft night but it got pulled at the last minute.

ButtersSuki · 29-09-2017 9:07am

brady23 wrote: »

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20851002/nba-board-governors-votes-pass-legislation-draft-lottery-reform-guidelines-resting-healthy-players

Graph at the end of the article shows the draft reform to take effect from 2019 onwards.

I don't think it is as much of a deterrent to teams tanking tbh at least in the short term.

Teams that finish in the last 3 positions are most at risk obviously but given you only have a 3/1 chance of getting top pick it isn't too different from expected return.

I wasn't aware but a team who finishes last has an expected position of 2.6 currently which changes to 3.7
2nd pick moves from 3.0 to 3.9 and 3rd position goes from 3.4 to 4.1
Perhaps it prevents systematic multi season tanking to a point but I don't think it changes too many teams short term plans.

OR you could look at that as now you don't have to tank to the bottom, you only have to tank to the bottom 3. In a strange way, it's actually made it potentially easier to be rewarded for tanking.....and you can also say you're not going all out to tank as iyou finished with the 3rd worst record in the league etc.

It could also unintentionally make the jockeying for 3rd worst record very interesting.........it's really just pushing the problem further down the road.

brady23 · 29-09-2017 10:45am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

OR you could look at that as now you don't have to tank to the bottom, you only have to tank to the bottom 3. In a strange way, it's actually made it potentially easier to be rewarded for tanking.....and you can also say you're not going all out to tank as iyou finished with the 3rd worst record in the league etc.

It could also unintentionally make the jockeying for 3rd worst record very interesting.........it's really just pushing the problem further down the road.

You may have misread it. It makes tanking for the bottom five less valuable but at team 6 it goes to the same as before or higher.
I agree all out tanking becomes less valuable but teams won't be jockeying for 3rd last

ButtersSuki · 29-09-2017 11:06am

brady23 wrote: »

You may have misread it. It makes tanking for the bottom five less valuable but at team 6 it goes to the same as before or higher.
I agree all out tanking becomes less valuable but teams won't be jockeying for 3rd last

Nope, didn't misread it. It depends on your view of stats and numerics....something I have a background in.

My point is that the teams with the 2nd and 3rd worst records now have the exact same chance of securing the #1 pick OR a pick in the Top 3 as the team with the worst record....up to now they had statistically less chances of doing that. Before if you were in tank mode you wanted the worst record in the league, now you want to be in the Bottom 3.

They've inadvertently made the Lottery not about the #1 position, but now 1-3. Given how infrequently the worst team actually lands the #1 pick, I think there's real danger here that this becomes counterproductive.

It's definitely a wait and see how this evolves, but there's risk attached.

ButtersSuki · 29-09-2017 11:11am

I just think they went far enough. This is a tinkering, when it really should have been completely redesigned. I appreciate that a lot of the teams don't want to change at all and any major changes would have been difficult to get approved, but I feel this is a missed opportunity.

brady23 · 29-09-2017 11:14am

Mistake on my part

ButtersSuki · 29-09-2017 11:26am

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/913480042352693250/photo/1

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/913480042352693250

Unless I'm reading that the wrong way around......Team 1-3 have the same % chance (14) at the #1 pick and a Top 3 pick (40). Changes after the Top 3 sure, but they're the same for 1 and Top 3.

Can't seem to get the images to show - sorry.

brady23 · 29-09-2017 11:34am

My mistake I was referring to expected return from your position.
I don't think that there will a jockeying for top 3 either way

brady23 · 29-09-2017 12:22pm

Phone died so couldn't respond properly. Oversight on my part as I simply looked at 1st pick and expected return tbh.

My point BS regarding jockeying for bottom 3 which essentially could have happened last year with the Lakers and Suns but didn't is that the expected return of pick 3 relative to the expected return of pick 4 has actually diminished under the new rules.
Prior to this change the expected return of pick 3 was 3.4 while pick 4 was 4.0 which is a clear difference of 0.6
Under the new rules the same two positions have a likelihood of 4.1 and 4.4.

Your point has merit but it's rather short sighted and I don't think a gm worth his salt would look at the probability of pick 1-3 as an indicator of tanking to the bottom 3 but would rather use expected return and assess whether it's worth it.

ButtersSuki · 02-10-2017 10:20am

A few days old at this stage but Westbrook signs with OKC for largest contract in NBA history.....on KD's Birthday (LOL).

ButtersSuki · 02-10-2017 10:22am

Interesting Woj podcast on college hoops re. boosters/payments etc., and the likely end of Rick Pitino and coaching following last week's revelations. Worth looking for - if a little short.

ButtersSuki · 02-10-2017 2:13pm

Ha! Ha!

https://twitter.com/cityofokc/status/913861809031008257

Hazys · 03-10-2017 3:07pm

NYC Subway chirping Dolan and the Knicks

DLJo8hJWsAATkTt.jpg?w=1200

http://www.believethehypenba.com/2017/10/03/fs1-bought-an-ad-on-the-new-york-subway-just-to-ether-the-knicks/

ButtersSuki · 03-10-2017 3:17pm

Hazys wrote: »

NYC Subway chirping Dolan and the Knicks

http://www.believethehypenba.com/2017/10/03/fs1-bought-an-ad-on-the-new-york-subway-just-to-ether-the-knicks/

Ha! Ha! The seats are funny too......

brady23 · 03-10-2017 10:03pm

All Star Game revamp (well almost)

Voting remains the same. 12 players selected from each conference.
Player with highest amount of votes from each conference is made captain and they pick players for their team irrespective of conference.

There should have been a larger pool maybe 20 from each conference and that way we would have seen a larger amount from the West but at least there will be more balance and possibly added competition.

The Offseason 2017

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