Hotel Cancels Pro life event due to Intimidation.

January · 26-09-2017 03:05PM

keano_afc wrote: »

I'll be expecting the same at the weekend when the Journal and others bump up the figures for the March for Choice.

We'll go by the official count, don't worry.

keano_afc · 26-09-2017 03:05PM

January wrote: »

You could say the exact same thing about venues being fearful of hosting pro-choice events for fear of a backlash from anti-choice advocates.

Can you not see that?

(Funny thing is, notice all these anti-choice events taking place in hotels, yet the pro-choice ones being held in cafe's and community centres... grassroots movement my ass.)

Who's pro-choice? The people emailing hotels telling them to cancel events they dont agree with?

January · 26-09-2017 03:06PM

keano_afc wrote: »

Who's pro-choice? The people emailing hotels telling them to cancel events they dont agree with?

And around and around and around...

The anti-choice side do the exact same thing.

The Legend Of Kira · 26-09-2017 03:07PM

January wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Being a national demo I have no doubt it will get better numbers, last years demo got 25.000 that,s a figure from one of the main groups involved with the demo.

Ok 25.000 is a good number for a national demo, but its not a great number compare that number last years national repeal the 8th demo got vs the numbers some of national anti water charges demos got, 11/10.2014 over 100.000 took to the streets - 10/12/2014 between 40.000 to 50.000 took to the streets on a wednesday weekday - 21/3/2015; 80.000 took to the streets, if repealing the 8th/abortion on demand has the mass support that some may think it has, why hasn,t their past demos got the same mass numbers out on the streets like the protests against water charges got ?

Suppose it's better than lying and saying 70,000 attended a march when only 5,000 actually did... like the March for Life this year...

Im looked at this report from Rte, the organisers said " 70.000 " took part, but to quote Rte on it.
""
Tens of thousands of people have taken part in the annual 'Rally for Life' march in Dublin this afternoon. ""
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0701/887020-march-for-life/

keano_afc · 26-09-2017 03:07PM

January wrote: »

And around and around and around...

The anti-choice side do the exact same thing.

So both sides are anti-choice then. Gotcha.

January · 26-09-2017 03:08PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Im looked at this report from Rte, the organisers said " 70.000 " took part, but to quote Rte on it.
""
Tens of thousands of people have taken part in the annual 'Rally for Life' march in Dublin this afternoon. ""
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0701/887020-march-for-life/

And the official count was just over 5,000.

RTE just took the organisers word as gospel on it.

The Legend Of Kira · 26-09-2017 03:13PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Being a national demo I have no doubt it will get better numbers, last years demo got 25.000 that,s a figure from one of the main groups involved with the demo.

Ok 25.000 is a good number for a national demo, but its not a great number compare that number last years national repeal the 8th demo got vs the numbers some of national anti water charges demos got, 11/10.2014 over 100.000 took to the streets - 10/12/2014 between 40.000 to 50.000 took to the streets on a wednesday weekday - 21/3/2015; 80.000 took to the streets, if repealing the 8th/abortion on demand has the mass support that some may think it has, why hasn,t their past demos got the same mass numbers out on the streets like the protests against water charges got ?

I have being following the 8th amendment in the media a little bit. I notice online that it's mainly the same people online commenting/tweeting on articles on social media. Same on here. They are a few repeal people who are always posting and a few pro-life people.
In reality I am a male in my twenties and never really hear anybody male or female discuss the matter online or in person. At a stretch I'd know more pro-life people nearly. I honestly don't hear a lot of discussion on the matter to be honest.

I noticed in real life conversations whether at work or out in the pub, the topic of repeal the 8th don,t come up too much among people.

ohnonotgmail · 26-09-2017 03:15PM

January wrote: »

And the official count was just over 5,000.

RTE just took the organisers word as gospel on it.

Maybe the organisers employed Fr Dougal Maguire to do the count?

keano_afc · 26-09-2017 03:15PM

January wrote: »

And the official count was just over 5,000.

RTE just took the organisers word as gospel on it.

Official count by who? The WSM? They've no reason to under-estimate the figure of course

:D

January · 26-09-2017 03:16PM

keano_afc wrote: »

Official count by who? The WSM? They've no reason to under-estimate the figure of course :D

Except they actually over-estimated the figures...

ELM327 · 26-09-2017 03:16PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

I noticed in real life conversations whether at work or out in the pub, the topic of repeal the 8th don,t come up too much among people.

It's because people are afraid of discussing it in case a friend is on the opposite side.

freshpopcorn · 26-09-2017 03:21PM

ELM327 wrote: »

It's because people are afraid of discussing it in case a friend is on the opposite side.

I find it's because lots of people don't really care about it. They are not pushed either way.

ELM327 · 26-09-2017 03:23PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I find it's because lots of people don't really care about it. They are not pushed either way.

I'd love to meet someone who doesn't care genuinely either way.
In my experience it's such a divisive issue that people are afraid to profess an opinion, rather than genuinely not caring.

The Legend Of Kira · 26-09-2017 03:30PM

Another public meeting got canceled & the meeting had to be moved elsewhere.

I looked up this group ( Unbroken ) on twitter the public meetings they are having from looking at their posters is women telling their real life personal stories.

https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912419837707681792

https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912419758485762048

Why would be some people be opposed to women telling their personal stories at a public meeting/public venue ? don,t all sides deserve to be heard out ? the way I look at it is this group ( Unbroken ) let them speak publicly if they book venues, + let other groups speak publicly such as ( Tmfr Ireland ) let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds.

freshpopcorn · 26-09-2017 03:30PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd love to meet someone who doesn't care genuinely either way.
In my experience it's such a divisive issue that people are afraid to profess an opinion, rather than genuinely not caring.

I have often tried to discuss this with people either strangers or people I know and I generally got an answer. When asked do they want a referendum on the matter the answer I generally got was I don't really mind either way.

January · 26-09-2017 03:33PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have often tried to discuss this with people either strangers or people I know and I generally got an answer. When asked do they want a referendum on the matter the answer I generally got was I don't really mind either way.

Usually, people who don't mind either way have never had experience with the restrictions the 8th amendment puts on people who are pregnant and giving birth in this country.

OldNotWIse · 26-09-2017 03:35PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd love to meet someone who doesn't care genuinely either way.
In my experience it's such a divisive issue that people are afraid to profess an opinion, rather than genuinely not caring.

I've been attacked for my opinion so I keep quiet now. I learned the hard way. Having said that, being attacked certainly didn't make me want to change my mind. What a strange tactic. I've also got myself to a point where I believe that even though it is a divisive issue, and people are entitled to feel very strongly about it, I cant let their views colour my opinion of them. We are not defined by our beliefs. Some of my closest friends feel very differently about abortion than I do. That's life. Like any socio or political leaning - we don't sling mud at each other because of our differences.

Though I find as I see more and more mud slinging (from both "sides" I must note) that I really just give less and less of a f*ck as time goes on. When it comes to it, I will vote in accordance with my core values anyway but in the interim, I simply don't engage people on the topic and I will certainly do my best to avoid the inevitable chants of "baby killer" and "misogynist" from those who wish to get het up about the whole thing. Actually I think a lot of people just keep their opinions to themselves because of this fear and those who shout the loudest be they for or against it, might not be representative of the majority either way.

AryaStark · 26-09-2017 03:37PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Being a national demo I have no doubt it will get better numbers, last years demo got 25.000 that,s a figure from one of the main groups involved with the demo.

Ok 25.000 is a good number for a national demo, but its not a great number compare that number last years national repeal the 8th demo got vs the numbers some of national anti water charges demos got, 11/10.2014 over 100.000 took to the streets - 10/12/2014 between 40.000 to 50.000 took to the streets on a wednesday weekday - 21/3/2015; 80.000 took to the streets, if repealing the 8th/abortion on demand has the mass support that some may think it has, why hasn,t their past demos got the same mass numbers out on the streets like the protests against water charges got ?

I have being following the 8th amendment in the media a little bit. I notice online that it's mainly the same people online commenting/tweeting on articles on social media. Same on here. They are a few repeal people who are always posting and a few pro-life people.
In reality I am a male in my twenties and never really hear anybody male or female discuss the matter online or in person. At a stretch I'd know more pro-life people nearly. I honestly don't hear a lot of discussion on the matter to be honest.

I noticed in real life conversations whether at work or out in the pub, the topic of repeal the 8th don,t come up too much among people.

Of course it doesn't... same as religion and politics... not really subjects for work or while out socialising.

Hoboo · 26-09-2017 03:42PM

January wrote: »

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have often tried to discuss this with people either strangers or people I know and I generally got an answer. When asked do they want a referendum on the matter the answer I generally got was I don't really mind either way.

Usually, people who don't mind either way have never had experience with the restrictions the 8th amendment puts on people who are pregnant and giving birth in this country.

Have you a source from research that supports that statement?

AryaStark · 26-09-2017 03:51PM

Hoboo wrote: »

January wrote: »

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have often tried to discuss this with people either strangers or people I know and I generally got an answer. When asked do they want a referendum on the matter the answer I generally got was I don't really mind either way.

Usually, people who don't mind either way have never had experience with the restrictions the 8th amendment puts on people who are pregnant and giving birth in this country.

Have you a source from research that supports that statement?

What kind of research are you looking for here. If somebody has no opinion on something it is because they have no experience of it.

OldNotWIse · 26-09-2017 03:52PM

AryaStark wrote: »

What kind of research are you looking for here. If somebody has no opinion on something it is because they have no experience of it.

Is that why straight people were allowed to vote in the marriage equality referendum?

January · 26-09-2017 03:53PM

Jesus H Christ. I made a statement, it's my opinion, not a fact. I said USUALLY, not always.

Billy86 · 26-09-2017 04:02PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Why would be some people be opposed to women telling their personal stories at a public meeting/public venue ? don,t all sides deserve to be heard out ? the way I look at it is this group ( Unbroken ) let them speak publicly if they book venues, + let other groups speak publicly such as ( Tmfr Ireland ) let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds.

Sorry Kira but given your many posts on the matter previously, why are you trying to silence people who have issues with pro-life/anti-abortion groups? This is exactly what you have accused others of in different threads on here, and yet this is exactly what you are doing here - if their opinion is that they disapprove of venues they are familiar with holding these events, then they have every right to express that opinion and let the venue decide what their reaction will be, and you nor anybody else has the right to silence them in that matter. This is what complete free speech is.

pitifulgod · 26-09-2017 04:07PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I find it's because lots of people don't really care about it. They are not pushed either way.

I remember the exact same argument being used against the marriage referendum. It turned out to not be true.

freshpopcorn · 26-09-2017 04:20PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

I remember the exact same argument being used against the marriage referendum. It turned out to not be true.

We are all just speaking from personal experience here. I remember in the lead up to the marriage referendum we heard about a lot about the silent no vote in the media but I never really experienced this. I spoke to lots of No and yes voters in the campaign for the marriage referendum.
What you have to remember tough is nearly 40% of the electorate didn't show up to vote(I know this varied a little). The marriage referendum was an easier campaign to seller to people.I just feel people care less about the 8th amendment just based from the people I spoke to and online. It was all about happiness and jokes and being in a good mood and this won't happen with a referendum with a referendum regarding the 8th amendment in my opinion.

_Dara_ · 26-09-2017 04:26PM

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Being a national demo I have no doubt it will get better numbers, last years demo got 25.000 that,s a figure from one of the main groups involved with the demo.

Ok 25.000 is a good number for a national demo, but its not a great number compare that number last years national repeal the 8th demo got vs the numbers some of national anti water charges demos got, 11/10.2014 over 100.000 took to the streets - 10/12/2014 between 40.000 to 50.000 took to the streets on a wednesday weekday - 21/3/2015; 80.000 took to the streets, if repealing the 8th/abortion on demand has the mass support that some may think it has, why hasn,t their past demos got the same mass numbers out on the streets like the protests against water charges got ?

Because the whole water charges thing, for some reason, got a lot of people ridiculously agitated. Who knows what was going on there.

Both the March for Choice and the March for Life had much lower numbers than any of the water protest demos.

_Dara_ · 26-09-2017 04:29PM

keano_afc wrote: »

I'll be expecting the same at the weekend when the Journal and others bump up the figures for the March for Choice.

The media coverage of the 2016 March for Choice was actually quite muted, certainly in comparison to this year's March for Life.

As far as I recall, RTÉ didn't put any number on the crowd size at the March for Choice.

SafeSurfer · 26-09-2017 04:35PM

January wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It isn't their views that the media is reporting. I is the fact that Dublin hotels are fearful of hosting pro life events for fear of a backlash from pro choice advocates.

Can you not see that?

It's not their views that are being reported but their silencing.

You could say the exact same thing about venues being fearful of hosting pro-choice events for fear of a backlash from anti-choice advocates.

Can you not see that?

(Funny thing is, notice all these anti-choice events taking place in hotels, yet the pro-choice ones being held in cafe's and community centres... grassroots movement my ass.)

Like the "posters and pints" meetings. Making pro abortion posters and drinking at the same time. You may call that grassroots some may just call it bad taste.

Alcohol and abortion don't need to be associated.

_Dara_ · 26-09-2017 04:38PM

Hoboo wrote: »

Have you a source from research that supports that statement?

When the request for peer-reviewed research goes full moron, everyone. Generally indifference is down to having little or no experience of an issue or no skin in the game. It was clearly an opinion that that poster was proffering.

SafeSurfer · 26-09-2017 04:40PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Hoboo wrote: »

Have you a source from research that supports that statement?

When the request for peer-reviewed research goes full moron, everyone. Generally indifference is down to having little or no experience of an issue or no skin in the game. It was clearly an opinion that that poster was proffering.

"Skin in the game" an unfortunate use of words in the abortion debate.

Hotel Cancels Pro life event due to Intimidation.

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