Fine Geals 10 year plan includes talk of infrastrucure

CatInABox · 19-09-2017 8:31am #1

Leo Varadkar has put out his "Vision for Ireland", and it includes a fair amount of talk about Infrastructure, in fact so much was touched on that I didn't know which thread to put it in, it literally name checks nearly every major infrastructure project we can think of. (If the mods can think of an appropriate thread, then please move!)

Infrastructure highlights include:

Looking into a joint project to connect Dublin and Belfast with high speed rail for a one hour journey.

As part of a ten year capital plan:
Dublin Metro
Cork Limerick motorway
Galway city bypass
New roads to Derry, Sligo, and Mayo
Dart Expansion to Leixlip, Drogheda(!), and Clonsilla (I'm assuming this is the Dart Underground expansion, just without the underground part.)

There's also talk of encouraging high rise development and living, specifically mentioned are creating new neighbourhoods in Waterford’s north quays, Galway’s inner harbour and Dublin’s Poolbeg.

Creation of Tech Universities are also on the menu.

So, all in all, it's great to see infrastructure is so prominent in a government plan, even if "plans" like these are easy to come out with, and are liable to all sorts of quick changes. I'd love to see even a quarter of all this done, and it's definitely got a good of urban and rural projects to get the votes on it.

I'd really like to see cross party support for an infrastructure plan as well, a commitment that it'd be followed even after a new (inevitable) election.

Wanderer78 · 19-09-2017 8:33am

He must be expecting a lot of wind before the next election!

AngryLips · 19-09-2017 8:46am

Jack of all trades, masters of none

nordydan · 19-09-2017 9:44am

Dart expansion to Drogheda and a new HS line to Belfast?? Going to need a new line then!

bk · 19-09-2017 10:29am

Of course we need to wait and see what actually comes of all of this, but as a person with an interest in infrastructure of all types, I have to say it all sounds fantastic. Almost literally everything I could wise for!

I was particularly impressed by this bit:

The next area is redeveloping our cities. We are currently tackling a serious housing shortage, and I suspect that a large part of the solution lies in redeveloping our cities for high-rise quality apartment living not further urban sprawl. We want vibrant new neighbourhoods all across the country

100%, I couldn't agree more. We really need to stop the insanity of building low density one off houses spread all over the country with no or little public transport and other services. We need to become a modern European country.

Though I'm surprised the Cork Harbour redevelopment didn't get a mention here! It will be the second biggest after Dublin Docks.

Dublin Metro and M20 aren't really a surprise, Leo specifically mentioned them in his manifesto before coming Taoiseach and he has mentioned them repeatedly since, so I think they are really serious about them, which is great news as they are badly needed.

Some will be disappointed that it looks like Dart Underground doesn't get a look in. I'm not surprised, as I mentioned in the Dart thread yesterday, it was never likely that both MN/DM and DU could go ahead at the same time, just too expensive. But electrifying the other lines will be a good cheaper compromise for now and hopefully we will then get the tunnel after DM is built.

Dublin to Belfast high speed rail is certainly a surprise! I suppose makes sense if they want to improve links with the North post Brexit and perhaps they think that they can get a lot of the money for it from the EU and UK. So makes sense that way. However I would think this is also the project that has most uncertainty surrounding it as it depends on how Brexit turns out.

Also delighted to see this about Broadband:

In terms of broadband, this Government will not be satisfied until we become the first country to connect every home to high-speed broadband sparking a revival of living and working from home in our market towns and rural areas.

So overall, all extremely positive, lets hope we get it all now. Time to roll up our sleeves and start digging.

Pete_Cavan · 19-09-2017 12:12pm

I don't get the DART extension along the northern line, does it mean that Drogheda trains would stop at every station along the way or do they just mean electrifying the line but still operate limited stop services similar to at present? I am assuming the latter as having trains stop at every station to Drogheda would be a disaster in terms of journey times, scheduling, etc?

Also, why do they say extension to Leixlip and not Maynooth, is there a logical reason for that?

AngryLips · 19-09-2017 12:15pm

Ideally it should be extended to Kilcock

thomasj · 19-09-2017 12:44pm

Pete_Cavan wrote:

Also, why do they say extension to Leixlip and not Maynooth, is there a logical reason for that?

It doesn't .

it says people in stations such as leixlip and Clonsilla will be able to board DART trains.

Just because maynooth isn't mentioned , doesn't mean it won't get the DART

lawred2 · 19-09-2017 1:17pm

nordydan wrote: »

Dart expansion to Drogheda and a new HS line to Belfast?? Going to need a new line then!

New lines were needed as it was

Pelvis · 19-09-2017 1:25pm

It all sounds great but who's going to pay for it?

veryangryman · 19-09-2017 1:47pm

AngryLips wrote: »

Ideally it should be extended to Kilcock

Ah now... that's pushing it. Traffic only really begins to slow at morning rush hour from Maynooth on. Kilcock not really a mass transit candidate

lawred2 · 19-09-2017 1:49pm

Pelvis wrote: »

It all sounds great but who's going to pay for it?

That's not a serious question is it?

L1011 · 19-09-2017 5:42pm

AngryLips wrote: »

Ideally it should be extended to Kilcock

Would need double track to make sense, the space is there for that as the line was double tracked before but it'd be dear. You need to go beyond the station to add stabling space. Station would also news rebuilding and it's possible some bridges would need replacing - bridges to Maynooth have been mostly done over the 20+ years electrification has been planned

bear1 · 19-09-2017 8:37pm

There is no point in them saying we should encourage high rises if the likes of an taisce can appeal against anything over 5 storeys.
Designate zones where no appeals can be lodged and as tall as they want.

Uriel. · 19-09-2017 9:08pm

bear1 wrote: »

There is no point in them saying we should encourage high rises if the likes of an taisce can appeal against anything over 5 storeys.
Designate zones where no appeals can be lodged and as tall as they want.

Appeals can only be brought in the context of existing legislation and planning policy etc.

bear1 · 19-09-2017 9:26pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Appeals can only be brought in the context of existing legislation and planning policy etc.

So why was Tara street appealed and rejected?
It conformed to all the rules necessary including that the land had permission for a 22 storey building only for it to be rejected with one reason being it's height..

Uriel. · 19-09-2017 9:33pm

bear1 wrote: »

So why was Tara street appealed and rejected?
It conformed to all the rules necessary including that the land had permission for a 22 storey building only for it to be rejected with one reason being it's height..

What was the rationale for the decision??

bear1 · 19-09-2017 9:35pm

Uriel. wrote: »

What was the rationale for the decision??

Something along the lines of you could see it from certain parts of the city, it cast a shadow over government buildings and it's height.

Uriel. · 19-09-2017 9:40pm

bear1 wrote: »

Something along the lines of you could see it from certain parts of the city, it cast a shadow over government buildings and it's height.

Yeah but that's not a sufficient decision in itself it needs to quote other matters including good planning principles etc etc

bear1 · 19-09-2017 9:44pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Yeah but that's not a sufficient decision in itself it needs to quote other matters including good planning principles etc etc

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/ronan-to-appeal-as-tower-bid-rejected-35892497.html

From my understanding the developers stuck to the rules the city themselves handed down back in 2012.
4 high rise areas in the city and that is one of them but it seems to me that they don't want anything high rise at all.
88m is not a massive tower but if the council would finally get off their Georgian this and that ****e then people would see that highrises don't need to be feared.
Especially don't properly.

bear1 · 19-09-2017 9:44pm

Anyway it's not really for this thread but I really think they need to fully review their guidelines for highrises

Uriel. · 19-09-2017 9:52pm

bear1 wrote: »

Anyway it's not really for this thread but I really think they need to fully review their guidelines for highrises

I agree.
There's a place and ability to do higher rise while also preserving the skyline

MayoSalmon · 19-09-2017 10:13pm

Uriel. wrote:

I agree. There's a place and ability to do higher rise while also preserving the skyline

Ha there's no skyline to preserve...

bk · 20-09-2017 10:32am

Uriel. wrote: »

I agree.
There's a place and ability to do higher rise while also preserving the skyline

Yes, in Dublin City Center. Because you know it is a city and it is perfectly normal to build high in a city.

veryangryman · 20-09-2017 10:46am

Just a devils advocate bit i was thinking about..

Blanch isn't really the city (albeit it's highly populated). Maybe the high-rise that Leo is after is central.

On the other hand, perhaps his constituents don't want it and thus get the gov they deserve.

lawred2 · 20-09-2017 10:48am

Uriel. wrote: »

I agree.
There's a place and ability to do higher rise while also preserving the skyline

what does that even mean?

Are you familiar with Dublin City Centre? I mean the exact site where this 'tower' was proposed?

Because the 'skyline' consists solely of some part occupied Soviet era inspired government aberrations.

There is nothing of any value down there worth preserving.

D.L.R. · 20-09-2017 11:54am

If by "Dart to Drogheda" they mean that they will electrify the line and provide longer distance "commuter" Dart services that will skip the inner stations... then that's fine.

But they should be clearer about what they mean.

The idea of a stopping Dart service all the way from Drogheda is patently ridiculous.

CatInABox · 20-09-2017 12:49pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

If by "Dart to Drogheda" they mean that they will electrify the line and provide longer distance "commuter" Dart services that will skip the inner stations... then that's fine.

But they should be clearer about what they mean.

The idea of a stopping Dart service all the way from Drogheda is patently ridiculous.

I'd expect the ten year capital plan to include more details, this was more of an outline than anything concrete.

Colonel Claptrap · 20-09-2017 1:55pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

If by "Dart to Drogheda" they mean that they will electrify the line and provide longer distance "commuter" Dart services that will skip the inner stations... then that's fine.

But they should be clearer about what they mean.

The idea of a stopping Dart service all the way from Drogheda is patently ridiculous.

Out of interest, what would be the benefit of a DART service compared to the existing diesel service? Assuming the current diesel stops are used.

veryangryman · 20-09-2017 1:57pm

I imagine it would allow said train to stop at other Dart stations e.g Killester

thomasj · 20-09-2017 2:07pm

Colonel Claptrap wrote:

Out of interest, what would be the benefit of a DART service compared to the existing diesel service? Assuming the current diesel stops are used.

Speeds up the train journey , DART has more capacity than commuter trains, quicker starts/stops

Fine Geals 10 year plan includes talk of infrastrucure

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