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Incident on London Underground
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A Little Pony wrote: »So you don't have Independence? Tell me something I didn't know.
That is the answer. No two ways about it. If you want that to change we have to leave the EU. Lets see how Brexit goes before we start thinking about that
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The exact opposite. The current system is completely broken so I'm all open to suggestions for change.
Hardly.. You've just pointed out that you're against any change that involves the reduction of rights for immigrants because it might later allow the reduction of rights for yourself.
How do you expect any solution to not involve the reduction of rights for immigrants/refugees?You know that already happens don't you? The likes of MI5/6 are constantly preempting attacks, but they can't catch them all.
Yup. I'm aware. It's remarked often enough in the news.Again this already happens. Refugees have all kinds of restrictions on them when they come to a country (work, movement, voting, etc.). Are you suggesting there should be extra restrictions? We could potentially keep them locked up until it's proven, but that's more likely to push them towards radicalization instead of away from it.
Okie dokie. I'll bite a little.
Personally, I think we should prevent any more from coming in and deal with those that are currently in Europe. Those that are not genuine asylum seekers (in real fear of their lives), should be expelled back to their countries unless they have passed the normal immigration requirements (work sponsors, levels of education, crinimal record checks etc). Those that have already passed citizenship processing should be given the opportunity to choose if they wish to stay or move on to a different continent.
All public displays of religion to be banned. (Islamic, Catholic, etc) All of them. The right to follow your religion in the home but nothing outside the home and place of worship. Religious laws like Sharia are banned, and only the common law of the land has any bearing. (No more than one wife)[No Sharia courts like the UK did] No Immigrants allowed to have more than two children until they're in Europe for twenty years without any family member performing any terrorist activity.. if they do, then the whole family is expelled. Make them directly responsible for each other.
Imprisonment is not the answer because it's just a drain on our resources. Expel them and let the find a place in S.America, Africa or Asia. Those that have the skills and educational levels to not be a drain on our resources, should be allowed to apply for citizenship... But true citizenship with an embracing of the host countrys culture, language, etc. Those that don't show a genuine effort to intergrate should be expelled after one year. Keep all other forms of immigration and Visa's to only those nationals from approved countries.
Anyone who commits a terrorist act (and survives) should be interrogated... and then shot.
I could go on... but there's little real point. I know what I described above will get shot down and would never be accepted.Is that the reason or is it because it's a complex issue without a simple solution?
Simple solution,... hmm... Oh.. sure.. convert all our requirements for oil to Gas/Alt Energy, Nuke all the M.East, , and repopulate the area in a few hundred years. The surviving terrorists cells would eventually be hunted down and destroyed.
There you go. Simple. :rolleyes:Look, I'm fairly neutral in all this. I'm just sick of people moaning about liberals suppressing their opinions and excessive Political Correctness, while not going to the effort of actually thinking things through. It's the same ****e, just from a different point of view.
Fact is, most of us have thought these things through, and have come to some rather nasty conclusions about what needs to change within Western society if we have any hope of defeating this threat. But we're generally not going to go into any real detail because the PC brigade are in power... and it's rather fashionable to stand on the top of a moral pesdestal and proclaim how enlightened they are. You'll see this soon enough when people start tearing apart what I suggested above.
Now.. how about you sit at home quietly for 20 minutes thinking on the subject and post your own opinions on how the problems should resolved..? After all, you're doing the very thing, you're complaining about others. You're criticising without providing any solutions. 0 -
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Check my post, I edited it to be clear. That part of what he said I don't sympathize with at all, or any extremism. I'm trying to talk about the human reaction of the so called PC Brigade, the media and spineless Politicians doing everything in their power to downplay a huge problem, certainly the biggest social problem I've seen in my lifetime. Even so I'll stand by what I said originally, this is all a secondary reaction to a problem that hasn't been dealt with by Governments or mainly the EU in this case, and has been allowed to fester for far too long. Perhaps too long for there ever to be a credible solution.
Funny that, I threw in my own edit before you replied to mine.
Added in to say - 'saying it should not be reported is like saying stumbling upon someone talking about bombing a London tube train on a forum with a high number of Muslims should not be reported because Muslims are unhappy with what has gone on in the middle east for the last long while.'
I get that there are issues making people very angry and frustrated in Europe, but I'm sure more or less every person saying any info on extremism or terrorism not being reported should be treated as a crime would pay no notice of the middle east issues as a reason to not report, so they should probably get reporting the terror threats we got on boards earlier tonight.0 -
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Ah no worries.
The lefter than left Dutch MEP Judith Sargentini has got your back since she was appointed in a special committee to tackle deficiencies in the fight against terrorism. As a vice-president no less.
Unfortunately there is this 1 tweet from 2015 that keeps following her but since she is on the good side of the thought police, she gets away with it:
Tr: There is no proof whatsoever that there are IS fighters amongst the refugees on the boats to Europe. it is all hysteria.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Hardly.. You've just pointed out that you're against any change that involves the reduction of rights for immigrants because it might later allow the reduction of rights for yourself.
How do you expect any solution to not involve the reduction of rights for immigrants/refugees?
I really don't think that I did. Certainly didn't intend to. Maybe you're reading between lines that aren't there?
Yup. I'm aware. It's remarked often enough in the news.
Okie dokie. I'll bite a little.
Personally, I think we should prevent any more from coming in and deal with those that are currently in Europe. Those that are not genuine asylum seekers (in real fear of their lives), should be expelled back to their countries unless they have passed the normal immigration requirements (work sponsors, levels of education, crinimal record checks etc). Those that have already passed citizenship processing should be given the opportunity to choose if they wish to stay or move on to a different continent.
All public displays of religion to be banned. (Islamic, Catholic, etc) All of them. The right to follow your religion in the home but nothing outside the home and place of worship. Religious laws like Sharia are banned, and only the common law of the land has any bearing. (No more than one wife)[No Sharia courts like the UK did] No Immigrants allowed to have more than two children until they're in Europe for twenty years without any family member performing any terrorist activity.. if they do, then the whole family is expelled. Make them directly responsible for each other.
Imprisonment is not the answer because it's just a drain on our resources. Expel them and let the find a place in S.America, Africa or Asia. Those that have the skills and educational levels to not be a drain on our resources, should be allowed to apply for citizenship... But true citizenship with an embracing of the host countrys culture, language, etc. Those that don't show a genuine effort to intergrate should be expelled after one year. Keep all other forms of immigration and Visa's to only those nationals from approved countries.
Anyone who commits a terrorist act (and survives) should be interrogated... and then shot.
I could go on... but there's little real point. I know what I described above will get shot down and would never be accepted.
Simple solution,... hmm... Oh.. sure.. convert all our requirements for oil to Gas/Alt Energy, Nuke all the M.East, , and repopulate the area in a few hundred years. The surviving terrorists cells would eventually be hunted down and destroyed.
There you go. Simple. :rolleyes:
Almost none of those solutions are implementable on any level and you aren't clear if you're talking about illegal immigrants, refugees or legal immigrants so that doesn't help. But here's some quick replies.
We can't stop people from coming in. Italy, Greece, Spain, etc have been trying forever and hasn't stopped them. They don't want to have to shoulder all the burden so we all take some. As I mentioned before, we'd have to leave the EU to gain the kind of say you want.
Regarding religion, for one thing you'll have your nan up in arms if you try to ban Catholic displays (old people vote so good luck getting a politician to look at pissing them off). You'll have everyone up in arms when Paddys Day is banned. In fact you'll have a whole load of people up in arms with that religion ban. Just because you aren't religious doesn't mean most people aren't. How do you stop people having kids? Or how do you punish people for giving birth when they aren't "registered" to without screwing up the childs life (and producing a troubled adult that burdens the state)? You can't ship illegal immigrants to whatever country you feel like. They won't take them. They already try to ship them to their home country but illegal immigrants throw away passports, etc. to hide nationality. Is there Sharia law in Ireland? I'm not aware of any. Are you suggesting something like the Dutch model of integration? Sounds okay but haven't looked into how it's panned out for them. No complaining when tax money is pigeon holed for this instead of (e.g.) roads though. We don't have enough natural resources to power the country nor the raw materials and heavy industry to produce gas risers, wind farms, hydroelectric plants, nuclear plants, etc. We could use less energy I suppose but that would mean people giving up cars, electricity, heating, etc.
Fact is, most of us have thought these things through, and have come to some rather nasty conclusions about what needs to change within Western society if we have any hope of defeating this threat. But we're generally not going to go into any real detail because the PC brigade are in power... and it's rather fashionable to stand on the top of a moral pesdestal and proclaim how enlightened they are. You'll see this soon enough when people start tearing apart what I suggested above.
Now.. how about you sit at home quietly for 20 minutes thinking on the subject and post your own opinions on how the problems should resolved..? After all, you're doing the very thing, you're complaining about others. You're criticising without providing any solutions.
This right here is my issue. People throw out stupid ideas and then claim it's the PC brigade gone mad when people point out that it's a stupid idea. It's as moany and self-serving as the SJWs with their safe spaces and made up pronouns.
There's no solution that anybody can even touch on that could be though of in 20 mins. You're vastly underestimating the scale of the issue. I'm not complaining about people criticising without providing a solution because there clearly isn't a simple solution. I'm complaining about people stating that just doing X,Y and Z would solve the issue when it wouldn't. And then acting all butt hurt when that's pointed out to them.0 -
I really don't think that I did. Certainly didn't intend to. Maybe you're reading between lines that aren't there?The problem is that these immigrants are people too and no matter how you feel about them, allowing their rights to be eroded is only opening the door for everyones rights to be eroded. If you're happy for that to happen, that's one thing. But we should all be extremely aware of what that might bring. It took a long time to get where we are and I personally don't want to throw that away because I'm afraid.
I dont think I'm reading between the lines. I responded to what you wrote. That you're against anything that erodes their rights.his right here is my issue. People throw out stupid ideas and then claim it's the PC brigade gone mad when people point out that it's a stupid idea. It's as moany and self-serving as the SJWs with their safe spaces and made up pronouns.
There's no solution that anybody can even touch on that could be though of in 20 mins. You're vastly underestimating the scale of the issue. I'm not complaining about people criticising without providing a solution because there clearly isn't a simple solution. I'm complaining about people stating that just doing X,Y and Z would solve the issue when it wouldn't. And then acting all butt hurt when that's pointed out to them.
Lol. I was going to reply to everything [had already written four quoted responses] but then I saw this. The only reason you asked for people to post suggestions to resolve the problem, was so that you could find flaws with it and shoot it down.
You don't want solutons.. you want justification for your own lack of solutions.. :rolleyes:
You proved my point all by yourself. Well done. Cased closed.
[No need to discuss this further since you're closed to anything that changes the status quo.]0 -
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