Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

wakka12 · 13-09-2017 01:29PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I still think the lack of a a proper red/green interchange station/platform is a major drawback of the scheme

I agree. would make the whole scheme a lot more legible to people not from Dublin/unfamiliar with the luas

MJohnston · 13-09-2017 01:44PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I agree. would make the whole scheme a lot more legible to people not from Dublin/unfamiliar with the luas

It'll be perfectly legible - the Abbey Street stop will be literally visible from OCS Lower and Marlborough stops, and vice versa.

LXFlyer · 13-09-2017 01:48PM

I suspect that the network maps at stops will also make this very clear.

This frankly is a non-issue.

MJohnston · 13-09-2017 02:01PM

LXFlyer wrote: »

I suspect that the network maps at stops will also make this very clear.

This frankly is a non-issue.

I'd expect some clear, large directional signage too, such as that which I believe already exists outside Connolly station.

Which reminds me, the walking distance between the Belfast Enterprise train platform and the Red Line Luas at Connolly is at least 210m (more depending on where on the train you exit) and includes stairs/escalators, yet tourists are perfectly happy and okay using this interchange. I'd imagine the interchange at Heuston is similar lengths.

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2017 02:29PM

MJohnston wrote: »

And double-tracking Marlborough would still ignore the benefits that the loop brings.

You ought to ride transit systems elsewhere to see how little of a problem a 99m interchange walk is.

But then you change where the loop would be. Parnell Square for one example. Running it up OCS was moronic.

MJohnston · 13-09-2017 02:34PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But then you change where the loop would be. Parnell Square for one example. Running it up OCS was moronic.

Parnell Square would arguably be a worse place for the loop, I think it has a much higher amount of bus stops, some of those stops are used as 'parking' for buses during changeover, and the upper end of Parnell Square is hopefully going to be pedestrianised as part of a cultural quarter plan.

BonnieSituation · 13-09-2017 03:41PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Parnell Square would arguably be a worse place for the loop, I think it has a much higher amount of bus stops, some of those stops are used as 'parking' for buses during changeover, and the upper end of Parnell Square is hopefully going to be pedestrianised as part of a cultural quarter plan.

"FOR EXAMPLE"

A loop could have been put in any number of places. We did not HAVE to put the Luas down OCS just to have a loop.

MJohnston · 13-09-2017 03:45PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

"FOR EXAMPLE"

A loop could have been put in any number of places. We did not HAVE to put the Luas down OCS just to have a loop.

Right but if you start moving the further north, it becomes pointless as it'd be too early on the line to start turning back trams anyway, and if you go further south the traffic routing situation gets way more complicated (thanks to Trinity). OCS and Parnell are probably the only two logical places for a loop as they're largely public transport only anyway at the minute.

D.L.R. · 13-09-2017 11:13PM

The loop was a bad idea. There's zero user benefit to it. It only hampers users because it halves capacity through Phibsboro/Cabra. Claiming its better than a standard two track system is delusional.

MJohnston · 13-09-2017 11:16PM

D.L.R. wrote: »

The loop was a bad idea. There's zero user benefit to it. It only hampers users because it halves capacity through Phibsboro/Cabra. Claiming its better than a standard two track system is delusional.

Debating 101: don't call people who you're trying to win over delusional.

D.L.R. · 13-09-2017 11:28PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Debating 101: don't call people who you're trying to win over delusional.

Whatever, its just another bad planning decision at the end of the day, you're free to kid yourself otherwise.

MJohnston · 13-09-2017 11:29PM

D.L.R. wrote: »

Whatever, its just another bad planning decision at the end of the day, you're free to kid yourself otherwise.

Well, apparently we aren't because you keep coming around to tell us how wrong we all are!

LeinsterDub · 14-09-2017 06:54AM

D.L.R. wrote: »

The loop was a bad idea. There's zero user benefit to it. It only hampers users because it halves capacity through Phibsboro/Cabra. Claiming its better than a standard two track system is delusional.

They don't have to use the loop. If additional capacity is needed they can send every tram to Cabra or 2 out of 3.

Banjoxed · 14-09-2017 07:08AM

I still think it was pandering for the loop to be created, but the solution is very easy. Rename O'Connell St-GPO/Abbey Street/Marlborough Street as "Central", give the platforms numbers 1 to 4 and then provide signage. It really isn't far and if anyone has negotiated King's Cross St Pancras tube station, the changes involved are a fraction of the distance.

Dardania · 14-09-2017 07:10AM

Banjoxed wrote: »

I still think it was pandering for the loop to be created, but the solution is very easy. Rename O'Connell St-GPO/Abbey Street/Marlborough Street as "Central", give the platforms numbers 1 to 4 and then provide signage. It really isn't far and if anyone has negotiated King's Cross St Pancras tube station, the changes involved are a fraction of the distance.

Heretical thinking! But clever idea - could be backed up with some good signage, defined routes etc.
I'm bateau of platforms 1-4, maybe north south east west?

yer man! · 14-09-2017 07:57AM

Luas got stuck on college green this morning because of a delivery van on the tracks. Held up Hawkins and Pearse Street. Really hope people cop on that you can't park on tracks.

CramCycle · 14-09-2017 08:01AM

yer man! wrote: »

Luas got stuck on college green this morning because of a delivery van on the tracks. Held up Hawkins and Pearse Street. Really hope people cop on that you can't park on tracks.

Any sign of the AGS out to fine people yet?

yabadabado · 14-09-2017 08:08AM

CramCycle wrote: »

Any sign of the AGS out to fine people yet?

Probably looking out the window from Pearse St station.

yer man! · 14-09-2017 08:22AM

Nope nothing at all, luas just stood there with the horn on until the driver came back to the van, gave a wave and drove to the other side of the road. I was right beside the Garda station, definetly hearable from the front door. Luas should be able to hand over video to guards to issue fine.

BoatMad · 15-09-2017 11:03AM

MJohnston wrote: »

I'd expect some clear, large directional signage too, such as that which I believe already exists outside Connolly station.

Which reminds me, the walking distance between the Belfast Enterprise train platform and the Red Line Luas at Connolly is at least 210m (more depending on where on the train you exit) and includes stairs/escalators, yet tourists are perfectly happy and okay using this interchange. I'd imagine the interchange at Heuston is similar lengths.

and is enclosed from the weather etc

ForstalDave · 15-09-2017 11:07AM

yer man! wrote: »

Nope nothing at all, luas just stood there with the horn on until the driver came back to the van, gave a wave and drove to the other side of the road. I was right beside the Garda station, definetly hearable from the front door. Luas should be able to hand over video to guards to issue fine.

They have basically said they are giving a bit of leeway while people get used to the trams running but if it doesnt stop they will start to tow vehicles away if they block the tracks

MJohnston · 15-09-2017 11:10AM

BoatMad wrote: »

and is enclosed from the weather etc

Of course, but even your plan to move everything onto OCS wouldn't provide shelther from the weather (which largely is overstated as a problem in Dublin anyway).

BoatMad · 15-09-2017 11:12AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Of course, but even your plan to move everything onto OCS wouldn't provide shelther from the weather (which largely is overstated as a problem in Dublin anyway).

yes but at least the journey would be short from platform shelter to platform shelter

Interchanges should be made as easy and as simple to understand as possible, this current one isnt .

MJohnston · 15-09-2017 11:58AM

BoatMad wrote: »

Interchanges should be made as easy and as simple to understand as possible, this current one isnt .

How do you know it isn't? The line isn't open yet and signage hasn't been finalised anywhere, so I don't know how you can claim it is not "simple to understand".

Let's put aside debates over where people think the lines should or shouldn't have gone, because those are utterly pointless at this stage.

With the line routing that we do have, I think the station locations are perfectly fine and easy to interchange at.

BoatMad · 15-09-2017 12:00PM

With the line routing that we do have, I think the station locations are perfectly fine and easy to interchange at.

im glad you're happy

MJohnston · 15-09-2017 12:08PM

BoatMad wrote: »

im glad you're happy

Okay then, given that we are long past the point where the line routing can be changed, let's assume that's off the table.

What other things would you change to make this easier or more simple to understand?

Chivito550 · 15-09-2017 12:15PM

It's not the north of Siberia we are living in. The weather is fine. Are you that soft that you can't take the occasional drop of rain on your head?

loyatemu · 15-09-2017 12:22PM

they're not moving the platforms now, this is seriously circular and pointless argument. FWIW I've been on tram systems in Germany and Holland where you had to walk around the corner to another street to change lines, it's pretty standard.

LXFlyer · 15-09-2017 12:26PM

loyatemu wrote: »

they're not moving the platforms now, this is seriously circular and pointless argument. FWIW I've been on tram systems in Germany and Holland where you had to walk around the corner to another street to change lines, it's pretty standard.

Precisely - similar interchanges occur all over the world and people get on with it, not to mention that construction is completed.

This is a nonsense discussion.

Banjoxed · 15-09-2017 06:19PM

BoatMad wrote: »

im glad you're happy

I'm happy you're glad

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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