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Petition Eir: increase/remove fair usage cap on Fibre broadband packages

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Comments

  • #2
    raydator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭raydator


    Don't forget to check out this post and the responses we received from Eir.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057783247&referrerid=756289


  • #3
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Ahem, no. Sorry i can't support your petition. Why? Coz all fair usage caps are intended to do exactly that, which is to Cap any one person's usage to a "fair" level. This ensures that users who use the shared services waaay more than those who use them to a much lesser extent are actually prevented from using ALL the available resources. The absence of a cap would be fine if available resourced were unlimited; that generally doesn't happen outside of high cost commercial fibre based networks.


  • #4
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Caps can be a good thing once they are set right and the service provider clear about them. However Eir's cap for FTTH is too low and there is no choice of increasing the cap either and the cap is very much hidden as well, that's where the problem exists.

    If Eir were upfront and honest about the cap + giving customers choice of different data allowances, there wouldn't be this problem.


  • #5
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,094 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    They used the 1TB FUP on FTTC, to claim its not stupidly excessive for 50Mb while being appropriate for 1GB is silly. The 1G product should be 5TB.



    That said, the petition is pissing in the wind.


  • #6
    gtaking111
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 ✭gtaking111


    Caps on Fibre broadband have very little to do with "fair usage" and everything to do with milking the consumer for a few extra quid. Before Fibre there was a problem with congestion and they somewhat made sense.

    However, back then ISP's throttled you for excessive usage whereas Eir has no problem with your continued usage and is happy to charge you extra. Sky uses Eir's Fibre backbone and guess what? They're Unlimited.

    And the 1 TB Cap on FTTH is a joke, you could use it all in a couple of hours at those speeds.


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  • #7
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,094 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    gtaking111 wrote: »
    However, back then ISP's throttled you for excessive usage whereas Eir has no problem with your continued usage and is happy to charge you extra. Sky uses Eir's Fibre backbone and guess what? They're Unlimited.

    Sky only use OpenEir as far as BT Irelands network. Eir use Vodafone(C&W) to get anywhere.


  • #8
    turbocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭turbocab


    gtaking111 wrote: »
    Caps on Fibre broadband have very little to do with "fair usage" and everything to do with milking the consumer for a few extra quid. Before Fibre there was a problem with congestion and they somewhat made sense.

    However, back then ISP's throttled you for excessive usage whereas Eir has no problem with your continued usage and is happy to charge you extra. Sky uses Eir's Fibre backbone and guess what? They're Unlimited.

    And the 1 TB Cap on FTTH is a joke, you could use it all in a couple of hours at those speeds.

    I think its time for the regulator to do his job,unlimited means no limit in the English language,they should not be allowed to advertise it as unlimited when in fact its not.end of


  • #9
    Alltherage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭Alltherage


    How long would it take to download 1TB on the Gb connection?


  • #10
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Despite what I said earlier in this thread about my understanding of the need for caps, I do wholeheartedly agree that providers should be forced to be up-front about them and should be prevented from advertising a 1TB download limit as unlimited. Any limit (and I don't care whether it is 100GB or 100 TB) is a limit and is therefore NOT unlimited. Putting the Fair Usage Policy into small print is not good enough. It should be clearly stated up front.

    Its not as though there's a shortage of words in the Oxford English Dictionary that a company should be allowed to use one word that has a clear meaning when in fact they mean something else completely.

    The word "Unlimited" should only be used when it is a reflection of the truth. Any company using it when they mean "mostly unlimited" or "unlimited for people who can never hope to achieve it" should be fined heavily by ASAI and/or Comreg or both together.


  • #11
    raydator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭raydator


    Alltherage wrote: »
    How long would it take to download 1TB on the Gb connection?

    If you where getting your full 1gb connection, it would take about 2 and half hours...

    Not long at all...


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  • #12
    Altreab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Altreab


    Alltherage wrote: »
    How long would it take to download 1TB on the Gb connection?

    2 hours 23 minutes according to http://www.download-time.com/


  • #13
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,094 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Less if the associated upload is included.


  • #14
    westyIrl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭westyIrl


    So to Eir FUP really means Fake Unlimited Plan which once you sign up to be becomes the F**k U Policy.

    And ED E is right its Upload+Download which is a change from older plans (at least the one I'm on) which counted Download only. This is going to be growing issue in the coming months. It'll be interesting to see how long the <1% customers affected spiel will last.

    Jim


  • #15
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,013 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Probably the only way for a consumer to have an impact is wait until your contract is up and leave for a competitor making it clear to them why you are leaving. Even at that it may not have an effect unless they lose a certain amount of customers.


  • #16
    westyIrl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭westyIrl


    Porter Straight Projector wrote: »
    Probably the only way for a consumer to have an impact is wait until your contract is up and leave for a competitor making it clear to them why you are leaving. Even at that it may not have an effect unless they lose a certain amount of customers.

    Or negative press could impact them if it becomes a significant enough issue. Problem is for customers is lack of competition in rural areas (Fiber wise)


  • #17
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,013 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    westyIrl wrote: »
    Or negative press could impact them if it becomes a significant enough issue. Problem is for customers is lack of competition in rural areas (Fiber wise)

    There are at least two other companies currently selling FTTH nationwide (Digiweb and Pure) with several other regional operators in certain areas (Westnet, Net1 etc). Sky will eventually join them I'd suspect perhaps Vodafone too once the NBP is decided.


  • #18
    westyIrl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭westyIrl


    Porter Straight Projector wrote: »
    There are at least two other companies currently selling FTTH nationwide (Digiweb and Pure) with several other regional operators in certain areas (Westnet, Net1 etc). Sky will eventually join them I'd suspect perhaps Vodafone too once the NBP is decided.

    Sorry, I didn't realise that. I assume the same FUP. The sooner Sky etc. do the better.


  • #19
    swoofer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭swoofer


    I looked at digiweb and under its 1000mb package there is an asterisk against unlimited but can I find where it refers, not a hope, so it looks as if they have FUP as well ie same as eir and well hidden.


    we are scuppered.


  • #20
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    swoofer wrote: »
    I looked at digiweb and under its 1000mb package there is an asterisk against unlimited but can I find where it refers, not a hope, so it looks as if they have FUP as well ie same as eir and well hidden.


    we are scuppered.

    only people in County Mayo can avail of totally unlimited FTTH with WestNet. Every other provider has the cap in place using both the Open Eir and Siro networks.

    The only difference is Eir completely hide their FUP and double down on the fact that it's totally unlimited with absolutely no usage limits.

    If Sky eventually offer FTTH it will be unlimited but I've heard bad things about contention and slow speeds with Sky's FTTC service. What I would love is if Virgin Media became a re seller and offered truly unlimited but that is unlikely to happen.


  • #21
    chris_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭chris_ie


    swoofer wrote: »
    I looked at digiweb and under its 1000mb package there is an asterisk against unlimited but can I find where it refers, not a hope, so it looks as if they have FUP as well ie same as eir and well hidden.

    we are scuppered.

    Yeah Digiweb is 1TB aswell, but no mention of extra charges.
    Unlimited Data * Unlimited Data: Digiweb operates an uncongested network and 1TB on this plan is considered fair use in any 30 day period prior to the 1st of the month. If a customer exceeds the stated fair usage allowance for data on more than 2 occasions in any 90 day period, then Digiweb reserve the right to terminate or suspend the customer’s service. Digiweb will proactively contact customers in advance of any suspension or termination of service.


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  • #22
    raydator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭raydator


    01001001 01100110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101001 01110100 01100101 00100000 00100010 01010101 01101110 01101100 01101001 01101101 01101001 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100010 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 00100010 01000001 01100010 01110011 01101111 01101100 01110101 01110100 01100101 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101101 01101001 01110100 01110011 00100010 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00101100 00100000 01100100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01110100 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101101 01100101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00111111


  • #23
    MBSnr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    ^^^
    01110111 01101000 01101111 00100000 01101011 01101110 01101111 01110111 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110 00111111 ;-)


  • #24
    raydator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭raydator


    MBSnr wrote: »
    ^^^
    01110111 01101000 01101111 00100000 01101011 01101110 01101111 01110111 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110 00111111 ;-)

    01001000 01100001 01101000 01100001 00101110 00101110


  • #25
    degsie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,813 ✭✭✭degsie


    (√-1)(2^3)(Σ)(π)


  • #26
    raydator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭raydator


    degsie wrote: »
    (√-1)(2^3)(Σ)(π)

    OK, let's keep it about Eir......


  • #27
    murphthesmurf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭murphthesmurf


    I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
    It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
    Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.


  • #28
    long_b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭long_b


    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
    It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
    Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

    How about this?

    CrashPlan (online backup software) have recently decided to kill one of their most popular plans.
    So many people will have to move their entire online backup to a different provider.

    I've 350GB+ ... some people have an awful lot more

    How are you going to download and then upload that without going over 1TB for the month?


  • #29
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
    It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
    Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

    Before I went on holidays I downloaded about 200 gigs worth of games onto my Steam account on a laptop, this only took a little over an hour.

    I also uploaded alot of work on same day, close to 40 gigs worth, so in that one afternoon I used quarter of my monthly allowance by just downloading a few games and uploading some work.


  • #30
    raydator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭raydator


    murphthesmurf wrote: »
    I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
    It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
    Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

    Netflix 4K streaming works out to be roughly 11.25 gigabytes per hour.
    I have 3 Netflix users, myself, my wife and my son. My self and my wife both have our own shows we what each night on Netflix.

    https://www.techhive.com/article/3064460/streaming-services/netflix-and-4k-hdr-proof-that-data-caps-will-stifle-video-innovation.html

    Don't forget SkyQ on demand. UHD viewing can take up to 12gb per movie.

    I have two gamer's in the house with two gaming PC's which seem to be getting game updates constantly. Let's not forget the Xbox's and the two free games each month and their updates.

    This is even before you look at day to day running including youtube(I have a youtube uploader who uploads 4K content almost daily), pc updates, One Drive and Google Drive backups.

    The list goes on and on... there are so many background apps using data on your phone as well.

    1TB is not enough, and just in case you didn't know, the 1TB of data is both Download and Upload combined.


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  • #31
    Noel82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Noel82


    I'm fine with caps, anything that might negatively influence latency is a no no for me.


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