Petition Eir: increase/remove fair usage cap on Fibre broadband packages

raydator

Hi all,

Please show your support for the petition I created which is for the increase/removal of the fair usage cap on Fibre broadband packages by signing the petition.

"Eir Fibre packages with unlimited usage are subject to a Fair Usage policy of 1TB per month. Usage in excess of 1TB will be charged at €2.50(inc. VAT) for every 10 GB up to
maximum of €100(Inc.VAT) per month."

You can find the petition here:
https://www.change.org/p/tracy-kennedy-eir-increase-remove-fair-usage-cap-on-eir-fibre-broadband-packages?recruiter=60375453&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

Thanks.

raydator

Don't forget to check out this post and the responses we received from Eir.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057783247&referrerid=756289

TomOnBoard

Ahem, no. Sorry i can't support your petition. Why? Coz all fair usage caps are intended to do exactly that, which is to Cap any one person's usage to a "fair" level. This ensures that users who use the shared services waaay more than those who use them to a much lesser extent are actually prevented from using ALL the available resources. The absence of a cap would be fine if available resourced were unlimited; that generally doesn't happen outside of high cost commercial fibre based networks.

Gonzo

Caps can be a good thing once they are set right and the service provider clear about them. However Eir's cap for FTTH is too low and there is no choice of increasing the cap either and the cap is very much hidden as well, that's where the problem exists.

If Eir were upfront and honest about the cap + giving customers choice of different data allowances, there wouldn't be this problem.

ED E

They used the 1TB FUP on FTTC, to claim its not stupidly excessive for 50Mb while being appropriate for 1GB is silly. The 1G product should be 5TB.



That said, the petition is pissing in the wind.

gtaking111

Caps on Fibre broadband have very little to do with "fair usage" and everything to do with milking the consumer for a few extra quid. Before Fibre there was a problem with congestion and they somewhat made sense.

However, back then ISP's throttled you for excessive usage whereas Eir has no problem with your continued usage and is happy to charge you extra. Sky uses Eir's Fibre backbone and guess what? They're Unlimited.

And the 1 TB Cap on FTTH is a joke, you could use it all in a couple of hours at those speeds.

ED E

gtaking111 wrote: »

However, back then ISP's throttled you for excessive usage whereas Eir has no problem with your continued usage and is happy to charge you extra. Sky uses Eir's Fibre backbone and guess what? They're Unlimited.

Sky only use OpenEir as far as BT Irelands network. Eir use Vodafone(C&W) to get anywhere.

turbocab

gtaking111 wrote: »

Caps on Fibre broadband have very little to do with "fair usage" and everything to do with milking the consumer for a few extra quid. Before Fibre there was a problem with congestion and they somewhat made sense.

However, back then ISP's throttled you for excessive usage whereas Eir has no problem with your continued usage and is happy to charge you extra. Sky uses Eir's Fibre backbone and guess what? They're Unlimited.

And the 1 TB Cap on FTTH is a joke, you could use it all in a couple of hours at those speeds.

I think its time for the regulator to do his job,unlimited means no limit in the English language,they should not be allowed to advertise it as unlimited when in fact its not.end of

Alltherage

How long would it take to download 1TB on the Gb connection?

TomOnBoard

Despite what I said earlier in this thread about my understanding of the need for caps, I do wholeheartedly agree that providers should be forced to be up-front about them and should be prevented from advertising a 1TB download limit as unlimited. Any limit (and I don't care whether it is 100GB or 100 TB) is a limit and is therefore NOT unlimited. Putting the Fair Usage Policy into small print is not good enough. It should be clearly stated up front.

Its not as though there's a shortage of words in the Oxford English Dictionary that a company should be allowed to use one word that has a clear meaning when in fact they mean something else completely.

The word "Unlimited" should only be used when it is a reflection of the truth. Any company using it when they mean "mostly unlimited" or "unlimited for people who can never hope to achieve it" should be fined heavily by ASAI and/or Comreg or both together.

raydator

Alltherage wrote: »

How long would it take to download 1TB on the Gb connection?

If you where getting your full 1gb connection, it would take about 2 and half hours...

Not long at all...

Altreab

Alltherage wrote: »

How long would it take to download 1TB on the Gb connection?

2 hours 23 minutes according to http://www.download-time.com/

ED E

Less if the associated upload is included.

westyIrl

So to Eir FUP really means Fake Unlimited Plan which once you sign up to be becomes the F**k U Policy.

And ED E is right its Upload+Download which is a change from older plans (at least the one I'm on) which counted Download only. This is going to be growing issue in the coming months. It'll be interesting to see how long the <1% customers affected spiel will last.

Jim

tsue921i8wljb3

Probably the only way for a consumer to have an impact is wait until your contract is up and leave for a competitor making it clear to them why you are leaving. Even at that it may not have an effect unless they lose a certain amount of customers.

westyIrl

Porter Straight Projector wrote: »

Probably the only way for a consumer to have an impact is wait until your contract is up and leave for a competitor making it clear to them why you are leaving. Even at that it may not have an effect unless they lose a certain amount of customers.

Or negative press could impact them if it becomes a significant enough issue. Problem is for customers is lack of competition in rural areas (Fiber wise)

tsue921i8wljb3

westyIrl wrote: »

Or negative press could impact them if it becomes a significant enough issue. Problem is for customers is lack of competition in rural areas (Fiber wise)

There are at least two other companies currently selling FTTH nationwide (Digiweb and Pure) with several other regional operators in certain areas (Westnet, Net1 etc). Sky will eventually join them I'd suspect perhaps Vodafone too once the NBP is decided.

westyIrl

Porter Straight Projector wrote: »

There are at least two other companies currently selling FTTH nationwide (Digiweb and Pure) with several other regional operators in certain areas (Westnet, Net1 etc). Sky will eventually join them I'd suspect perhaps Vodafone too once the NBP is decided.

Sorry, I didn't realise that. I assume the same FUP. The sooner Sky etc. do the better.

swoofer

I looked at digiweb and under its 1000mb package there is an asterisk against unlimited but can I find where it refers, not a hope, so it looks as if they have FUP as well ie same as eir and well hidden.


we are scuppered.

Gonzo

swoofer wrote: »

I looked at digiweb and under its 1000mb package there is an asterisk against unlimited but can I find where it refers, not a hope, so it looks as if they have FUP as well ie same as eir and well hidden.


we are scuppered.

only people in County Mayo can avail of totally unlimited FTTH with WestNet. Every other provider has the cap in place using both the Open Eir and Siro networks.

The only difference is Eir completely hide their FUP and double down on the fact that it's totally unlimited with absolutely no usage limits.

If Sky eventually offer FTTH it will be unlimited but I've heard bad things about contention and slow speeds with Sky's FTTC service. What I would love is if Virgin Media became a re seller and offered truly unlimited but that is unlikely to happen.

chris_ie

swoofer wrote: »

I looked at digiweb and under its 1000mb package there is an asterisk against unlimited but can I find where it refers, not a hope, so it looks as if they have FUP as well ie same as eir and well hidden.

we are scuppered.

Yeah Digiweb is 1TB aswell, but no mention of extra charges.

Unlimited Data * Unlimited Data: Digiweb operates an uncongested network and 1TB on this plan is considered fair use in any 30 day period prior to the 1st of the month. If a customer exceeds the stated fair usage allowance for data on more than 2 occasions in any 90 day period, then Digiweb reserve the right to terminate or suspend the customer’s service. Digiweb will proactively contact customers in advance of any suspension or termination of service.

raydator

01001001 01100110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101001 01110100 01100101 00100000 00100010 01010101 01101110 01101100 01101001 01101101 01101001 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100010 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 00100010 01000001 01100010 01110011 01101111 01101100 01110101 01110100 01100101 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101101 01101001 01110100 01110011 00100010 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00101100 00100000 01100100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110011 01110100 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101101 01100101 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00111111

MBSnr

^^^
01110111 01101000 01101111 00100000 01101011 01101110 01101111 01110111 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110 00111111 ;-)

raydator

MBSnr wrote: »

^^^
01110111 01101000 01101111 00100000 01101011 01101110 01101111 01110111 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110 00111111 ;-)

01001000 01100001 01101000 01100001 00101110 00101110

degsie

(√-1)(2^3)(Σ)(π)

raydator

degsie wrote: »

(√-1)(2^3)(Σ)(π)

OK, let's keep it about Eir......

murphthesmurf

I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

long_b

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

How about this?

CrashPlan (online backup software) have recently decided to kill one of their most popular plans.
So many people will have to move their entire online backup to a different provider.

I've 350GB+ ... some people have an awful lot more

How are you going to download and then upload that without going over 1TB for the month?

Gonzo

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

Before I went on holidays I downloaded about 200 gigs worth of games onto my Steam account on a laptop, this only took a little over an hour.

I also uploaded alot of work on same day, close to 40 gigs worth, so in that one afternoon I used quarter of my monthly allowance by just downloading a few games and uploading some work.

raydator

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I see the point about the advertising and wording. But not so much about the limit itself. 1TB is a LOT. In my house we have 1 x pc, 1 x laptop, 1 x WiiU, 1 x Xbox 360, 1 x Xbox One, 1 x PS4, 4 x smart phones, Amazon Fire Stick, Nowtv box, and Netflix. On an evening up to 4 of us would be simultaneously streaming shows. There are huge patches downloaded for games, sometimes entire games. With all this we still don't come anywhere near 1TB.
It's ok saying you can download that amount in 'x' amount of time on a 1Gb connection. But what would you be downloading? A full game download for most of the top games would be around 50-60GB, are you buying 16 games of this size month?
Would be nice to know how much data a streamed 4k movie would use up from Netflix. Only when 4k becomes the norm can I see this limit becoming a problem.

Netflix 4K streaming works out to be roughly 11.25 gigabytes per hour.
I have 3 Netflix users, myself, my wife and my son. My self and my wife both have our own shows we what each night on Netflix.

https://www.techhive.com/article/3064460/streaming-services/netflix-and-4k-hdr-proof-that-data-caps-will-stifle-video-innovation.html

Don't forget SkyQ on demand. UHD viewing can take up to 12gb per movie.

I have two gamer's in the house with two gaming PC's which seem to be getting game updates constantly. Let's not forget the Xbox's and the two free games each month and their updates.

This is even before you look at day to day running including youtube(I have a youtube uploader who uploads 4K content almost daily), pc updates, One Drive and Google Drive backups.

The list goes on and on... there are so many background apps using data on your phone as well.

1TB is not enough, and just in case you didn't know, the 1TB of data is both Download and Upload combined.

Noel82

I'm fine with caps, anything that might negatively influence latency is a no no for me.

gtaking111

I stream Netflix in 4K on my Xbox One and share it with 3 other people. I also back up my photos and videos to BackBlaze and download Steam and Xbox one updates frequently. My data usage for this month was 1611.21 GB.

I'm with Virgin Media so there is no data caps whatsoever but if I had been with Eir, I would been charged an extra 100 euro. It's one thing to enforce a fair usage policy but it is absolutely unacceptable that they charge for extra usage on a service advertised as unlimited and I am fairly sure it would qualify as misleading advertising.

Think about it, on one had they're using the argument of "fair usage" to ensure that they provide the best speed to their customers but they're only too happy to look past this for extra money. They are the not the only ISP to have data caps but they are certainly the only one to charge for exceeding it on a package advertised as unlimited.

murphthesmurf

gtaking111 wrote: »

I stream Netflix in 4K on my Xbox One and share it with 3 other people. I also back up my photos and videos to BackBlaze and download Steam and Xbox one updates frequently. My data usage for this month was 1611.21 GB.

I'm with Virgin Media so there is no data caps whatsoever but if I had been with Eir, I would been charged an extra 100 euro. It's one thing to enforce a fair usage policy but it is absolutely unacceptable that they charge for extra usage on a service advertised as unlimited and I am fairly sure it would qualify as misleading advertising.

Think about it, on one had they're using the argument of "fair usage" to ensure that they provide the best speed to their customers but they're only too happy to look past this for extra money. They are the not the only ISP to have data caps but they are certainly the only one to charge for exceeding it on a package advertised as unlimited.

Surely the Xbox One can only output at 1080p ??

raydator

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Surely the Xbox One can only output at 1080p ??

Well technically you're right if it's just an Xbox One, but if its an Xbox One S which is more than likely the case, then yes it does play 4K.

http://www.techradar.com/news/video/xbox-one-netflix-app-update-adds-4k-and-hdr-support-1325938

Gonzo

gtaking111 wrote: »

I stream Netflix in 4K on my Xbox One and share it with 3 other people. I also back up my photos and videos to BackBlaze and download Steam and Xbox one updates frequently. My data usage for this month was 1611.21 GB.

I'm with Virgin Media so there is no data caps whatsoever but if I had been with Eir, I would been charged an extra 100 euro. It's one thing to enforce a fair usage policy but it is absolutely unacceptable that they charge for extra usage on a service advertised as unlimited and I am fairly sure it would qualify as misleading advertising.

Think about it, on one had they're using the argument of "fair usage" to ensure that they provide the best speed to their customers but they're only too happy to look past this for extra money. They are the not the only ISP to have data caps but they are certainly the only one to charge for exceeding it on a package advertised as unlimited.

If Eir increase the FUP to 3 or 4tb per month, It probably wouldn't have any effect on the quality of their network. The 1tb per month data limit is only 400 megs more than Imagine's cap, and Imagine's network is a wireless network with very limited bandwidth compared to Eir's Network. The whole point of having a fibre to the home connection is to be able to download/stream content fast when you want it, not to be limited to only small amounts of activity and logging into a data tracking manager a few times a day.

gtaking111

Yes, I would imagine that if their infrastructure could handle 1 gigabit speeds that it could also handle an increase in the cap. AFAIK Virgin Media is completely unlimited the most I have ever downloaded was 2.9 TB in a month and that was in December when the whole family came to stay for a few weeks, never heard a peep from them.

I am very happy with the 240mb package from Virgin Media but I wouldn't use the extra download of the 360mb package. The idea that a triple increase in speed couldn't handle more than 1TB is ridiculous. The only use I would have for FTTH is an increase in upload speeds as I sync lots of photos and video to the cloud but it's not worth twice the price. 3 or 4 TB cap is reasonable as I doubt many would use it anyways.

ED E

gtaking111 wrote: »

Yes, I would imagine that if their infrastructure could handle 1 gigabit speeds that it could also handle an increase in the cap.

Nothing to do with infrastructure, NGA and national core has the capacity. Its about €€€ paid to T1s.

Virgin have a saving due to being part of LG, basically its one network from Galway to Gdansk. Also their HFC network is generally more profitable as it only covers prime areas so a few euro extra in 95/5 billing isn't a problem.

gtaking111

By the way I forgot to mention,

Petitions by themselves rarely have impact, If you're unlucky enough to be impacted by this, you should make a complaint to ASAI

http://www.asai.ie/make-a-complaint/make-a-complaint/

It states on the site that it is Unlimited but they charge for excess usage and AFAIK are the only ISP in Ireland to charge extra on an Unlimited package. They funnily enough, don't use an asterisk to cover themselves from misleading people like other ISPs with caps do such as Digiweb.

Use the petition as supporting evidence as well as their site:

http://support.eir.ie/article/broadband_excess_usage

The way they advertise IS misleading. Also complain to Eir and then to ComReg if you have no luck and they'll probably refund you any charges if you were hit with this already.

swoofer

After reading that link to a previous asai case all eir do is ignore letter from asai and continue as normal. I have raised it with asai but wont hold my breath. Eir must know they have a free hand and any complaints can be ignored.

Mind you with all the shenanigans going on should we be surprised with eir.

Gonzo

swoofer wrote: »

After reading that link to a previous asai case all eir do is ignore letter from asai and continue as normal. I have raised it with asai but wont hold my breath. Eir must know they have a free hand and any complaints can be ignored.

Mind you with all the shenanigans going on should we be surprised with eir.

to be fair to Eir, their FUP was always generally in line with their products up to recently. ADSL and EFibre are fine for the FUP, with ADSL it's almost impossible to use up the FUP unless your on a legacy plan with small cap. For over a decade I never once looked at myeir or any monitoring tool but with the same FUP across most products and plans, this FUP is becoming a real issue.

All the Eir reps can do is post a standard response, it's out of their hands. Eir's FTTH is a fantastic product, it's just unfortunate they have not calculated the FUP requirements properly for a service such as this.

There is more noise being made about this unfair FUP each month and with a large uptake in FTTH plans over the next year and more, this noise will probably get alot louder as more people sign up for the service and realise very quickly that they don't have unlimited broadband when the excess charges are posted to their address, even for exceeding the FUP by only a tiny amount.

Hopefully Eir will see sense and increase the FUP in line with the plan requirements, but I don't see them doing anything untill things get alot louder.

swoofer

I think we are all complaining about the blatant lies by EIR and the others. If you read all the blurb it emphases the unlimited ie they are using a lie to sell the product. You will read download a movie in 3 minutes as opposed to hours. I only found out it had fup when price went up and got a text saying i would be disconnected. I will look for original letter t see if it was mentioned. A heavy user could get either disconnected or a heftty bill. In this day and age a bit of honesty would not go amiss.

westyIrl

swoofer wrote: »

I think we are all complaining about the blatant lies by EIR and the others. If you read all the blurb it emphases the unlimited ie they are using a lie to sell the product. You will read download a movie in 3 minutes as opposed to hours. I only found out it had FUP when price went up and got a text saying i would be disconnected. I will look for original letter t see if it was mentioned. A heavy user could get either disconnected or a heftty bill. In this day and age a bit of honesty would not go amiss.

I am left wondering if an alternative/additional way to go about the problems with FUP would be complaining in relation to Eir charging for excess usage and not the FUP itself. My reasoning is that whether the FUP is correct or not (clearly not as advertised I agree), that they provide no way to limit it (and to avoid excess usage charges) to the user is what is really at fault. Take Vodafone as an example with their mobile data plans. They provide the facility to limit your data to your plan cap, in addition to receiving warning texts when you hit 80% (and I'm no great fan of Vodafone). Eir simply doesn't as far as I'm aware.

I'm quite certain that if they weren't gaining ancillary revenues from such a FUP, they wouldn't bother with it (at least to 1TB) as it would be just be negative publicity with no financial benefit. I can't get FTTH yet unfortunately but if I were dealing with this FUP, I do believe I would probably gain more ground by complaining about Eir's action prior to and when the FUP is exceeded rather than the FUP itself. Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim

Johnboy1951

westyIrl wrote: »

I am left wondering if an alternative/additional way to go about the problems with FUP would be complaining in relation to Eir charging for excess usage and not the FUP itself. My reasoning is that whether the FUP is correct or not (clearly not as advertised I agree), that they provide no way to limit it (and to avoid excess usage charges) to the user is what is really at fault. Take Vodafone as an example with their mobile data plans. They provide the facility to limit your data to your plan cap, in addition to receiving warning texts when you hit 80% (and I'm no great fan of Vodafone). Eir simply doesn't as far as I'm aware.

I'm quite certain that if they weren't gaining ancillary revenues from such a FUP, they wouldn't bother with it (at least to 1TB) as it would be just be negative publicity with no financial benefit. I can't get FTTH yet unfortunately but if I were dealing with this FUP, I do believe I would probably gain more ground by complaining about Eir's action prior to and when the FUP is exceeded rather than the FUP itself. Just my 2 cents worth.

Jim

Is it possible to scrape the info from your myeir account or wherever eir keep the details of usage?

loyatemu

ED E wrote: »

Nothing to do with infrastructure, NGA and national core has the capacity. Its about €€€ paid to T1s.

Eir have direct peerings with Netflix, Google, Amazon and many others via INEX. I doubt their transit peerings are that busy, and T1 transit is not as expensive as it once was.

ED E

loyatemu wrote: »

Eir have direct peerings with Netflix, Google, Amazon and many others via INEX. I doubt their transit peerings are that busy, and T1 transit is not as expensive as it once was.

INEX is just part of it, but its also not all traffic.

Some is cached here sure, but loads isn't. Transit is cheaper than it was, but peering is relatively free.

The most common heavy user is probably the P2P head. Look at any torrent swarms and you'll see most of the endpoints are the States. Premium bytes.

Gonzo

fairly certain Vodafone have binned their Fair Usage Policy across all fibre and FTTH products. Another boards member has it in writing that the FUP is gone and when I looked at Vodafone's website all previous references and asterisks pointing to the 1gb fair usage policy are now removed.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057790415

Eir are now out on their own enforcing their FUP and charging customers for breaking it.