Garda Breath test scandal

Autochange · 09-09-2017 08:18PM #1

Why has there been no action against Gardai and their superiors for the falsification of of breath test samples?

How can no action be taken. Its unbelievable and seems to reinforce the idea of how corrupt this country is?

Not to mention the loss of respect and trust for the police force from the general public. Even after the anti water metering policing fiasco.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 09-09-2017 08:25PM

It's a terror, isn't it?

TPD · 09-09-2017 09:01PM

I was wondering about that the other day. Surely every record in the system has some identifier of who created it - so why not find out the story behind every fraudulent record? If there's a plausible reason for it, let it come to light, and if not, surely that's a sackable offence? I'm sure there are plenty of folk ready and waiting to fill the boots of any discharged gardai.

09-09-2017 09:07PM

Autochange wrote: »

Why has there been no action against Gardai and their superiors for the falsification of of breath test samples?

I thought the signals were that they would face disciplinary action?

Presume it can be a slow process, trawling though all the records and then cross referencing it with records of prosecutions to work out which were false.

Donal55 · 09-09-2017 09:12PM

The real scandal is that O'Sullivan is still there and FG/FF are still backing her.

Miike · 09-09-2017 09:14PM

Donal55 wrote: »

The real scandal is that O'Sullivan is still there and FG/FF are still backing her.

I'm not saying you're wrong as I just don't know but why is the garda commissioner in the wrong here? Is it known the she gave the order for the false test to be input to PULSE? I've not really been following the story at all but I can't wrap my head around why people are calling for her resignation off the bat? Can you give me a quick synopsis?

BillyBobBS · 09-09-2017 09:14PM

We don't do accountability for the establishment in Ireland.

Donal55 · 09-09-2017 09:21PM

Miike wrote: »

I'm not saying you're wrong as I just don't know but why is the garda commissioner in the wrong here? Is it known the she gave the order for the false test to be input to PULSE? I've not really been following the story at all but I can't wrap my head around why people are calling for her resignation off the bat? Can you give me a quick synopsis?

Too many scandals under her watch, breath tests, false speeding convictions, carry on with finances at Templemore,....
The buck should stop there.

archer22 · 09-09-2017 09:34PM

Donal55 wrote: »

Too many scandals under her watch, breath tests, false speeding convictions, carry on with finances at Templemore,....
The buck should stop there.

The "buck" shouldn't bypass those on the ground actually doing those things either.
The problem is much bigger than "senior management"...and trying to scratch all the Fleas on to them is just a deflection tactic to avoid dealing with the real problem which extends from top to bottom.

Donal55 · 09-09-2017 09:35PM

archer22 wrote: »

The "buck" shouldn't bypass those on the ground actually doing those things either.
The problem is much bigger than "senior management"...and trying to scratch all the Fleas on to them is just a deflection tactic to avoid dealing with the real problem which extends from top to bottom.

I agree fully. Sack her and work all the way down.

smurgen · 09-09-2017 10:23PM

I'm wondering what the possible implications will be,if any for people who may have been put off the road for drink driving over the periods that these tests happened?i know those put off the road more than likely had blood/urine samples to prove guilt but some part of me think others may have grounds to question convictions etc.

Benjamin Buttons · 09-09-2017 10:29PM

Garda breath tests : I smell a rat!

Blanc von lobster · 10-09-2017 12:31AM

If they couldn't find out who was on duty when Clare Daly was arrested on suspicion of drunk driving, I don't have much confidence in a swift conclusion to this episode.

mynamejeff · 10-09-2017 12:49AM

http://www.thejournal.ie/breath-test-submissions-3589481-Sep2017/

an interesting perspective and makes the issue fairly clear

pressure from above to create statistics and very little emphasis put on accuracy or not

i agree heads should roll but lets make sure its the right heads

Autochange · 10-09-2017 01:00AM

https://youtu.be/c5fts7bj-so

jimmycrackcorm · 10-09-2017 01:00AM

I don't understand the hullabaloo about this scandal. It's very obvious to anybody who is on the road in any capacity, whether driving, being a passenger, cycling, walking that there are hardly any alcohol checks. The figures are no surprise to anyone.

If the real figures had been reported there wouldn't be any discussion regardless so the false / real figures have no effect. The real problem is still the same as it has always been. We have revenue oriented speed checks at opportunistic locations during the day and zero checkpoints outside full pub car parks at night.

smurgen · 10-09-2017 09:52AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't understand the hullabaloo about this scandal. It's very obvious to anybody who is on the road in any capacity, whether driving, being a passenger, cycling, walking that there are hardly any alcohol checks. The figures are no surprise to anyone.

If the real figures had been reported there wouldn't be any discussion regardless so the false / real figures have no effect. The real problem is still the same as it has always been. We have revenue oriented speed checks at opportunistic locations during the day and zero checkpoints outside full pub car parks at night.

They said they carried out a massive amount more tests than they did.each test and check point costs money to carry out.that money would have came from a budget.now it turns out that they were over reported by 100% in most areas.now even from a financial point of view we'd have to ask where the money for all of these non existant test went and where the man hours for all these false tests went.

Atoms for Peace · 10-09-2017 10:18AM

Noreen O'Sullivan needs another month on the job to get her gold plated pension. As we all know incompetence and malfeasance in the public service is to be rewarded with a handy job in Europe and/or a generous pension.

Captain Obvious · 10-09-2017 10:27AM

smurgen wrote: »

They said they carried out a massive amount more tests than they did.each test and check point costs money to carry out.that money would have came from a budget.now it turns out that they were over reported by 100% in most areas.now even from a financial point of view we'd have to ask where the money for all of these non existant test went and where the man hours for all these false tests went.

What financial cost are you talking about? If a Garda says he breathalysed fourteen drivers at a checkpoint instead of six then how is that costing the tax payer financially?

Nettle Soup · 10-09-2017 10:35AM

Donal55 wrote: »

The real scandal is that O'Sullivan is still there and FG/FF are still backing her.

Yes there is something really twisted about that.

She should have gone last year. It just encoursges the rot.

I dont see the Gardai ever recovering their credibility now.

maryishere · 10-09-2017 11:11AM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Noreen O'Sullivan needs another month on the job to get her gold plated pension. As we all know incompetence and malfeasance in the public service is to be rewarded with a handy job in Europe and/or a generous pension.

Nail on the head. How many people in the Central Bank were punished, and they damaged the country much worse.

smurgen · 10-09-2017 06:59PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What financial cost are you talking about? If a Garda says he breathalysed fourteen drivers at a checkpoint instead of six then how is that costing the tax payer financially?

Material costs.each breath test needs a once off use tube.opportunity cost also.police hours should be accounted for.what were the cops really doing when they were meant to be doing these checkpoints?also maybe some cops earned overtime while manning these imaginary checkpoints

Captain Obvious · 10-09-2017 07:04PM

smurgen wrote: »

Material costs.each breath test needs a once off use tube.

What? If they weren't doing the tests then why would the plastic tube be used?

smurgen wrote: »

opportunity cost also.police hours should be accounted for.what were the cops really doing when they were meant to be doing these checkpoints?also maybe some cops earned overtime while manning these imaginary checkpoints

I haven't seen anything saying checkpoints weren't done. The issue is that many cars weren't being breathalysed at them.

Nettle Soup · 10-09-2017 07:06PM

She finally resigned. The massive pension be due.

Miike · 10-09-2017 08:43PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What? If they weren't doing the tests then why would the plastic tube be used?

Procurement costs and they have an expiry date :pac:

Esel · 11-09-2017 01:25AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What? If they weren't doing the tests then why would the plastic tube be used?

What would be the cost to the state to buy 1.5m tubes?

If these never actually existed... nice earner...

Are Am Eye · 11-09-2017 01:45AM

The cost of Bonuses paid to Chief Superintendents and Superintendents for 'achieving' these targets. Targets that were never met as we now know. Is there a plan in place to retrieve this money for the exchequer? Will those who received bonuses based on ficticious statistics now be investigated for fraud?

smurgen · 11-09-2017 10:02AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What? If they weren't doing the tests then why would the plastic tube be used?

I haven't seen anything saying checkpoints weren't done. The issue is that many cars weren't being breathalysed at them.

So the time spent administering breath tests was wasted. Lets put it into perspective. Assume a breath test takes 5 minutes to administer in total. That means given 500k were falsly reported rather than performed that 41,667 police hours are now unaccounted for.

TheChizler · 11-09-2017 10:37AM

smurgen wrote: »

So the time spent administering breath tests was wasted. Lets put it into perspective. Assume a breath test takes 5 minutes to administer in total. That means given 500k were falsly reported rather than performed that 41,667 police hours are now unaccounted for.

It's the time they were present at the checkpoint that was counted, not some time per test. It just seems like a badly designed reporting system, where there's pressure, either intentional or unintentional, to push the numbers upwards.

smurgen · 11-09-2017 10:38AM

TheChizler wrote: »

It's the time they were present at the checkpoint that was counted, not some time per test. It just seems like a badly designed reporting system, where there's pressure, either intentional or unintentional, to push the numbers upwards.

But they could have been carrying out other operations instead of standing around manning checkpoints

smurgen · 11-09-2017 10:47AM

It would make ya wonder about their overtime figures too.how much are those inflated?

Garda Breath test scandal

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