Would you consider these school shoes?

seamus · 07-09-2017 01:00PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Some schools, based on what I've read from other posters, seem to be more concrerned about rules for the sake of teaching rules than about actually creating a comfortable envoronment in which to study.

In conclusion: I'm not against the shoes only rule, I am against the idea that it's there for the sake of it being a rule.

Thing is, once it's been established that the school is going for a uniform, that's pretty much discussion over.

Whatever about your opinion on uniforms at all, it's pretty obvious that if the school has decided on a uniform, then it's necessary for the school to enforce that decision. Otherwise you may as well not have a uniform.

I don't believe the kid in the OP turned up one day wearing runners and was sent home. More likely he has turned up every day since last week wearing runners, was told to change them, but refused to do so. So when he turned up for the 3rd/4th/5th time wearing them, the school sent him home to change them.
Or he was "sent home", (i.e. at the end of the day) with a note to his parents about uniform.

It's liveline. If part of the story sounds ridiculous, then it's probably an embellishment.

LirW · 07-09-2017 01:04PM

tabby aspreme wrote: »

No one needs to freeze because the school jacket is not warm enough, there are plenty of reasonably priced thermal base layer options available for the shivering students, come the weekend they seem warm enough in tee shirts or crop tops . Being cold will not give you a cold / flu , it's viruses , that's an Irish mammy myth. Uniforms in school prevent Brand bullying , and reduce the financial pressure on parents.
One of our local secondary schools has a great idea regarding uniforms, if a student is not wearing the correct uniforms the school gives them one to wear for the day, it may not fit great on them so they don't forget the next day

But for that kind of money that they take for the crested jackets shouldn't you expect at least some decent quality? Would you pay hundred quid or more for a jacket that doesn't keep you warm or isn't waterproof?

07-09-2017 01:09PM

If the parents are made fully aware of, and consent to, the school's uniform policy in advance then fair enough. They agreed to this before sending the child to the school, they could have sent them elsewhere, so the school has a reasonable argument to pursue with the parents.

But removing the child from the education system on account of their shoes? How is that affecting or disrupting the schooling of anyone else? Sending an unaccompanied minor out on to the street when the parents might not be home (maybe at work) to collect them? Who does this help? Or discipline? Surely the child only possess the footwear the parents purchase for them.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 01:54PM

LirW wrote: »

Someone brought a good point up: On the one hand schools can be really petty with these rules, on the other hand enforcing a uniform policy all around the year that leaves kids freezing because the fancy school jacket doesn't keep you warm a single bit. I find this really scandalous, especially when teenagers have longer breaks to go off but easily catch a cold because they aren't allowed to wear a proper coat in the winter.

Also changing school in many parts of the country isn't an option because the next Secondary is miles and miles away.

No child is going to freeze to death because of the school jacket. Honestly. I've seen many of these jackets. They're fine. They're fleece lined and waterproof on the outside. Students just don't want to wear them and parents just don't want to buy them because they'd rather wear/buy Nike or Adidas or whatever

LirW · 07-09-2017 02:03PM

I don't know, the one of the local secondary is absolute crap, it's basically a thin layer that's not holding anything. Again, why charging such a price for something that's clearly not worth it? For 100 quid I can buy a okay fleece jacket. Nothing against uniforms or anything but the prices for them, and honestly some of these crested jumpers are absolute substandard, aren't adequate, especially with younger kids, where they grow out of them within a months if it goes bad.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 02:05PM

anna080 wrote: »

No child is going to freeze to death because of the school jacket. Honestly. I've seen many of these jackets. They're fine. They're fleece lined and waterproof on the outside. Students just don't want to wear them and parents just don't want to buy them because they'd rather wear/buy Nike or Adidas or whatever

I honestly couldn't agree with you more. I've also rarely heard of a freezing school. Our school used always be well heated and one lad and his mother used always be on about how cold it way.(The same lad used go around in his shirt most of the time)
In the past school shoes were really uncomfortable but now with sketchers/etc there not. I've seen some of these black runners that some people wear and their really uncomfortable and have no support.

One eyed Jack · 07-09-2017 02:08PM

anna080 wrote: »

No child is going to freeze to death because of the school jacket. Honestly. I've seen many of these jackets. They're fine. They're fleece lined and waterproof on the outside. Students just don't want to wear them and parents just don't want to buy them because they'd rather wear/buy Nike or Adidas or whatever

Nail on the head. This year our son went into secondary school and my wife bought a school crested blazer, a rainproof light jacket with the school crest, and a fleece lined waterproof jacket with the school crest.

Morning 1: Uniform with the tie done properly and the top button on his shirt closed, and the fleece jacket on.

Morning 2: Uniform with the tie hanging off, the shirt collars 70's style, and no jacket - "I'm melting in the jumper alone and the teacher said it was ok to have the tie like this so we don't choke"...

"Isn't that what your teacher said last year too?"

"Bye dad", and he booting it out the door :pac:

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 02:13PM

LirW wrote: »

I don't know, the one of the local secondary is absolute crap, it's basically a thin layer that's not holding anything. Again, why charging such a price for something that's clearly not worth it? For 100 quid I can buy a okay fleece jacket. Nothing against uniforms or anything but the prices for them, and honestly some of these crested jumpers are absolute substandard, aren't adequate, especially with younger kids, where they grow out of them within a months if it goes bad.

I've never heard parents be so finicky about any other item of clothing as bad as they are with school jumpers. Would you refrain from buying your child a regular everyday jumper because he will grow out of it in a few years? Or do you just buy it? Parents just hate buying uniforms and jackets and school shoes because it takes the control away from them and what they want to buy, and so they target the quality/material/crest/colour and take issue with that. Also, if you are concerned about your child outgrowing the uniform, do what most parents do and buy it a size or two larger.

vintagecosmos · 07-09-2017 02:14PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How is leaving school an option?

I'm saying that schools should be open to criticism of their rules directly from the students - genetally speaking, not just in regard to this specidic rule - and should be able to explain to stusents why said rules are in place and what they hope said rules will achieve.

If you dont believe students should be able to express an opinion or at least be listened to, educating them in a modern free society is s a bit pointless.

I was been a little facetious. Sure you can express an opinion, but regardless, the rule is established and in force so you should obey it. Debate is encouraged but if the rule is shoes, then wear shoes. thats it, simples.

Are Am Eye · 07-09-2017 02:16PM

Forget about thermal vests.
These kids need to toughen up.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 02:24PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Sending a student home is drastic. Something important could be missed. Often important concepts are taught within a day and not touched upon again. It's losing sight of the bigger picture and demonstrating pettiness and inability to use their discretion to students, not great qualities to instil.

This can be easily avoided by abiding the school rules and sending your child to school in proper uniform.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 02:26PM

One thing I know from my experience at school and from talking to teacher no. Most of the generic uniforms go shabby in no time compared to the one's bought in the uniform shops.(We'll exclude the students who pull their sleeves down over their hands and pick at the stitching).
Especially with primary school kids it's handy to have a standard crested jumper when bring kids on trips especially when other schools are involved. On trips they could be hundreds of kids all in the exact same Dunnes uniform and then when Johnny goes missing it will be all the schools fault for not having a uniform to make him easier to identify.

07-09-2017 03:12PM

You often see brand bullying mentioned in these threads with the suggestion that having a uniform prevents it, but back in my old school we had a uniform and instead of brand bullying we had uniform bullying. The uniform was just another way for the bullies to rebel and make themselves look cool and anyone who didn't follow them and wore the uniform properly was uncool and a nerd, teachers pet and bullied accordingly. No one was ever bullied on a no-uniform day for what they wore but if you wore your tie too high or didn't cut slits in the side of your pants, you were going to get it.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 03:15PM

riffmongous wrote: »

You often see brand bullying mentioned in these threads with the suggestion that having a uniform prevents it, but back in my old school we had a uniform and instead of brand bullying we had uniform bullying. The uniform was just another way for the bullies to rebel and make themselves look cool and anyone who didn't follow them and wore the uniform properly was uncool and a nerd, teachers pet and bullied accordingly. No one was ever bullied on a no-uniform day for what they wore but if you wore your tie too high or didn't cut slits in the side of your pants, you were going to get it.

That's why this lads school did the right thing. Everything should be correct unless theirs a valid reason.

LirW · 07-09-2017 03:21PM

anna080 wrote: »

I've never heard parents be so finicky about any other item of clothing as bad as they are with school jumpers. Would you refrain from buying your child a regular everyday jumper because he will grow out of it in a few years? Or do you just buy it? Parents just hate buying uniforms and jackets and school shoes because it takes the control away from them and what they want to buy, and so they target the quality/material/crest/colour and take issue with that. Also, if you are concerned about your child outgrowing the uniform, do what most parents do and buy it a size or two larger.

The only thing I really complain about is the price/ quality ratio. My son's uniform looks really nice, it's in colours you don't mind and he likes wearing them. I have less washing to do. But it doesn't change the fact that especially secondary uniforms are very expensive for what they actually offer. Uniforms are worn 5 days a week during school times and should ideally last a whole year. In plenty of cases they don't because outgrowing (mine went over the summer months 2 sizes up, the pants I bought him during the summer don't fit anymore) or they simply wear out.
I have no problems with school uniforms really but when something I bought in a uniform shop starts falling apart after 3 months I think it's okay to complain. I'd also complain with any other piece of clothing that doesn't last that long and I had that already, plenty of times. That's the way it is, I suck it up, but I still think I have the right to give out about this.
Same goes for secondary uniforms that have usually more pieces/ you need more sets of them. The quality of some of the pieces are absolute sh1te. But they still manage to charge you a huge amount of money for it. Again, I really don't wanna pay sixty quid for a rain jacket that doesn't keep you dry. Because the ones of the local schools all come from the same company and they don't.
I hope you get my point somehow.

07-09-2017 03:25PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That's why this lads school did the right thing. Everything should be correct unless theirs a valid reason.

Not at all, getting sent home for uniform would have made you a hero amongst the bullying kids back in my old school. It's the ones who follow the rules who get picked on

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 03:33PM

LirW wrote: »

The only thing I really complain about is the price/ quality ratio. My son's uniform looks really nice, it's in colours you don't mind and he likes wearing them. I have less washing to do. But it doesn't change the fact that especially secondary uniforms are very expensive for what they actually offer. Uniforms are worn 5 days a week during school times and should ideally last a whole year. In plenty of cases they don't because outgrowing (mine went over the summer months 2 sizes up, the pants I bought him during the summer don't fit anymore) or they simply wear out.
I have no problems with school uniforms really but when something I bought in a uniform shop starts falling apart after 3 months I think it's okay to complain. I'd also complain with any other piece of clothing that doesn't last that long and I had that already, plenty of times. That's the way it is, I suck it up, but I still think I have the right to give out about this.
Same goes for secondary uniforms that have usually more pieces/ you need more sets of them. The quality of some of the pieces are absolute sh1te. But they still manage to charge you a huge amount of money for it. Again, I really don't wanna pay sixty quid for a rain jacket that doesn't keep you dry. Because the ones of the local schools all come from the same company and they don't.
I hope you get my point somehow.

They really shouldn't be falling apart after three months, so I'm afraid I don't believe you there. If you're buying from the correct places they'll last you years. Maybe you're overwashing them or ignoring the instructions? Uniforms have great structural integrity if washed correctly. Mine is still around and looks perfect.
Also, do you know how much money you are saving by virtue of having a uniform? For 8 months of the year, children are wearing the exact same clothes and yet parents are somehow aggrieved by that.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 03:33PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Not at all, getting sent home for uniform would have made you a hero amongst the bullying kids back in my old school. It's the ones who follow the rules who get picked on

A principal came to my local secondary school in the early 1990's. He was strict about uniforms. If you turned your runners you were driven home by the caretaker to get them. If you wore kept on wearing your runners they'd be taken off you. Everybody wore shoes(the rough kids tried to get away with it but always failed). They was no bullying about uniforms in my school anyway.

LirW · 07-09-2017 03:36PM

anna080 wrote: »

They really shouldn't be falling apart after three months, so I'm afraid I don't believe you there. If you're buying from the correct places they'll last you years. Maybe you're overwashing them or ignoring the instructions? Uniforms have great structural integrity if washed correctly. Mine is still around and looks perfect.

Neither, they get a weekly wash, which they need. The tracksuit of my boy was in absolute bits after a year.

07-09-2017 03:38PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

A principal came to my local secondary school in the early 1990's. He was strict about uniforms. If you turned your runners you were driven home by the caretaker to get them. If you wore kept on wearing your runners they'd be taken off you. Everybody wore shoes(the rough kids tried to get away with it but always failed). They was no bullying about uniforms in my school anyway.

In our old school they'd make you wear slippers, but it quickly became a badge of honour thing. Driving someone home wouldn't have been allowed by this stage.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 03:38PM

LirW wrote: »

Neither, they get a weekly wash, which they need. The tracksuit of my boy was in absolute bits after a year.

I would really recommend contacting the manufactures about this then also shop around in the local area. I know in my town some places offer better uniforms than others.

end of the road · 07-09-2017 03:39PM

anna080 wrote: »

This can be easily avoided by abiding the school rules and sending your child to school in proper uniform.

or by not sending them home for a petty reason.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 03:40PM

riffmongous wrote: »

In our old school they'd make you wear slippers, but it quickly became a badge of honour thing. Driving someone home wouldn't have been allowed by this stage.

People were driven home when my brother was in the school in the 1990's when I was there in the 2000's and still do it now.

LirW · 07-09-2017 03:41PM

He's now in a different school, has a new tracksuit now (from the same supplier though). We'll see how this one lasts. Again, we also get the odd piece of normal clothes that fall apart sooner than others (mine is perfect in taking socks apart in a matter of weeks for example). It's just an annoyance really.

07-09-2017 03:45PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

People were driven home when my brother was in the school in the 1990's when I was there in the 2000's and still do it now.

I'm surprised that's allowed or that a caretaker would agree to do it. I was in school in the 2000s and they were already fairly cautious

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 03:55PM

LirW wrote: »

Neither, they get a weekly wash, which they need. The tracksuit of my boy was in absolute bits after a year.

How many other bits of his clothes were in bits after a year? Or is it just the school tracksuit you have gripe with?

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 03:58PM

riffmongous wrote: »

I'm surprised that's allowed or that a caretaker would agree to do it. I was in school in the 2000s and they were already fairly cautious

They just have a zero tolerance policy on runners. They may ring home before they do it the first time but the parents who sen the kids to school in the wrong uniform don't really care in my experience.
If I was sending my kids to any school and if the policy said anything about black shoes I'd be buying them for them. When I did start work and I had to manage people I couldn't understand some people attitude to wearing the correct shoes at work from talking to them tough and sending them home I found it came from principals being to lax about uniforms.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 03:59PM

end of the road wrote: »

or by not sending them home for a petty reason.

If the parents/children abided by the rules nobody would ever need to be sent home for those reasons. But that would mean taking responsibility and following school procedure, which people seem to have issue with.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-09-2017 04:02PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

riffmongous wrote: »

In our old school they'd make you wear slippers, but it quickly became a badge of honour thing. Driving someone home wouldn't have been allowed by this stage.

People were driven home when my brother was in the school in the 1990's when I was there in the 2000's and still do it now.

Out of interest, what happens if no one's home, no one's available to be home and kid has no keys?

LirW · 07-09-2017 04:02PM

The other ones were the generic ones bought at Dunnes. The pants were alright, the jumpers not so much and the shirts I didn't mind.
Just love that someone desperately wants to get it out of me that I'm a school uniform hater, which I'm not. No need to continue discussing this any further because my real point (if anyone would pay huge money for something that doesn't do its job) is basically just dismissed.

Again: I have no problems with school uniforms, I like the way they look, some are just overpriced, some aren't, some have good quality, some don't. I happened to buy one for my son that wasn't great. I also bought other clothes for him that weren't great.

Would you consider these school shoes?

Comments