Would you consider these school shoes?

storker · 07-09-2017 12:00AM

Once you allow leeway you no longer have a uniform. When I was in school they brought in a "uniform" that specified wine pullover, grey trousers and black shoes, so sometimes you had guys wearing grey corduroys and Doctor Martens. There were so many variations on the theme that it could scarcely be called a uniform at all.

retro:electro · 07-09-2017 12:06AM

Hellrazer wrote: »

You were dead right.This year we were sent actual pictures of shoes that were allowed to be worn....seriously have they nothing better to do???

The school jacket is 120 euros,the lighter hoody is 80<<we didnt buy either and truthfully if they send my child home Ill be telling them the same as you.

The problem especially in my area is that there is one single shop with a monopoly on the school uniforms.

The junior school has a wine tracksuit--the tracksuit price because of a ****ing logo on it??
Almost 100 euros.Standard wine tracksuit with no logo the exact same colour and brand--15-20 euros.
The post primary jumper again with a logo on it??65 euros.Standard navy jumper 20 euros.School tie --20 euros for a stripped blue tie.

This boils my blood every year.Its not like the jumper is made from finest angora wool or something.If you ask me they are buying cheap jumpers and stitching the logo on and adding on 40 euros for the privilege.

Ive even considered getting the logo copied and stitched on myself--4 euros with the company that we use in work for work uniforms and you would not be able to tell the difference.

Im not against uniforms but I am against this price gouging that happens in some areas where one single shop has the sole rights to sell that uniform.

Sure the same could be said for any band out there. Without the logo its not worth half as much. Remove Nike/puma/whatever from the item and it it's remarkably lower in cost. Parents in my school used to cut the crests off older jumpers and stitch them on to cheaper ones. I agree uniforms can be mental prices and having to have the crested jacket and tracksuit etc seems extortionate- but do you realise how much money you are saving by actually having one? You get 3 years out of junior uniform in most schools and two (sometimes three if you could Tran year) out of the senior one. All you'd need to buy extra of is shirts and socks. They are the some sturdiest of things I've ever come across.

I still have mine thrown somewhere and it's over ten years old at this stage but still looks brand new. Imagine how much you'd be spending on new and trendy gear if there was no such thing as a uniform? There'd be fcuking uproar. Parents get allowances if they are struggling. Imo some parents need to pull the finger out when it comes to whinging about uniform prices. The same kids are going around with iPhones and all the lastest gear.

07-09-2017 12:09AM

spurious wrote: »

I agree completely, but people love to sign their children up to these places, then moan when it doesn't do what it says on the tin.

Plenty schools with no uniform if it's such a big deal to parents. Not a great example to set their children to agree to a set of rules and then at the first opportunity start try to get out of it. Storing up trouble there.

Not really, is there a single school in the south east for example that doesn't require a uniform? None that I can remember

B.A._Baracus · 07-09-2017 01:44AM

I read that the mother said her son was too traumatized to go back to school now. Yes. Too traumatized.

Look it's silly that the school sent the kid home. Should not have. But once I read traumatized? I laughed and stopped caring

LordSutch · 07-09-2017 06:42AM

Most if not all secondary schools have dress codes, and within those dress codes are specific guidelines as to what footwear your student should wear.

Obviously your guidelines state that trainers (black or otherwise) are not allowed......

I guess if trainers were allowed, all students would wear them 'to look cool'

suicide_circus · 07-09-2017 08:15AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I read that the mother said her son was too traumatized to go back to school now. Yes. Too traumatized.

Look it's silly that the school sent the kid home. Should not have. But once I read traumatized? I laughed and stopped caring

He would have been more traumatised had brother ignatious tested his rear end with a length of birch!

Living Off The Splash · 07-09-2017 08:55AM

The only problem that I have is that the school is on one side and the parents on the other. Unfortunately the child is in between.
The child doesn't want to feel anxious in the school, they just want to blend in with their fellow classmates. I would purchase the necessary clothing.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. Any school that is anal about their rules and regulations would want to make sure that they have all their i's dotted and t's crossed because they will get no mercy from parents if anything goes wrong down the road.

freshpopcorn · 07-09-2017 09:06AM

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The only problem that I have is that the school is on one side and the parents on the other. Unfortunately the child is in between.
The child doesn't want to feel anxious in the school, they just want to blend in with their fellow classmates. I would purchase the necessary clothing.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. Any school that is anal about their rules and regulations would want to make sure that they have all their i's dotted and t's crossed because they will get no mercy from parents if anything goes wrong down the road.

To the best of my knowledge they policy was perfectly written and described what was expected of the students. If the mother purchased the necessary clothing they wouldn't have being an issue.

seamus · 07-09-2017 09:15AM

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The only problem that I have is that the school is on one side and the parents on the other. Unfortunately the child is in between.
The child doesn't want to feel anxious in the school, they just want to blend in with their fellow classmates. I would purchase the necessary clothing.

This is one of the things that's always worth thinking about before one (as a parent) goes off on a rant about school rules.
It's not about you, it's about your child. It doesn't matter whether you like or agree with uniforms, that's your problem. Don't make it your child's problem.

Whether it's black runners, a non-standard jacket, a jumper that's a bit off-colour, everyone can remember there being one of those kids in primary school, who never seemed to have a full uniform. They stick out. And usually not for the right reasons.

Now, I'm one who's all about sticking out, not going with the flow, doing things your own way. And if my child wanted a different coat because they like it and they don't care what the other kids think, I'd fight that battle with the school all the way.
But I wouldn't force my child to stick out. I know for a fact that being different and sticking out is an enormous source of anxiety and low self-esteem for children, because they generally don't have the ability to cope with it or accept it.

My daughter can be a bit picky about clothes, and in that regard a uniform is actually a blessing. She has no choice, this is what she has to wear. So there can no arguments because she wants to run around in her underwear all day, or wear shorts when it's negative temps outside, or wear her wellies all day when the sun is shining. She puts on her uniform and that's that. When she gets in the door, the uniform is cast asunder and then she can do whatever the hell she wants.

_Dara_ · 07-09-2017 09:25AM

Ug, petty school uniform rules.

In my school, you weren't allowed to wear your coat indoors. This was a badly insulated school where in winter, your teeth would be closing to chattering, even with the heating on.

One day in January, the heating was broken. We got a message from our jobsworth vice principal over the intercom, informing us that we were allowed to wear our coats indoors that day to keep warm. Just before the last class of the day, she came on the intercom again the inform us that the heating was now working again and to take our coats off. Seriously, 40 minutes left in the school day. The heating wouldn't have even made a dent in the cold in that time. I still remember the collective groan that sounded in the classroom. What a fucking loser she was.

fergiesfolly · 07-09-2017 09:57AM

Got our young wan a pair of runners as school shoes. Very plain black, but clearly a runner all the same. They are comfortable( as opposed to any shoe)and as she has to walk a lot to and from school, I went along with it despite reservations.
Her school has a strong policy on uniforms, but from what I've seen, footwear is the one area they're reasonably lenient.
I think uniforms are a good thing and as long as the school adopts a sensible attitude, everyone wins.

vintagecosmos · 07-09-2017 10:15AM

If you dont want to obey the school rules and wear a uniform then homeschool the child. Uniforms are published and available upfront. The school can enforce as they see fit. I went to a school wear hair length was measured. Wearing black trousers instead of grey got a reprimand. You would be forced to buy a school tie if you forgot it. And no facial hair allowed. I dont necessarily agree with them all but those were the rules.

Typical fu cken snowflake generation with helicopter parenting. How are they going to learn to respect authority if their parents are openly fighting against it. How will they take it when an employer says no piercings or visible tatoos? Fu cken ridiculous.

If the mother is so concerned, then join the board of management and get it changed.

Wanderer78 · 07-09-2017 10:28AM

vintagecosmos wrote:

Typical fu cken snowflake generation with helicopter parenting. How are they going to learn to respect authority if their parents are openly fighting against it. How will they take it when an employer says no piercings or visible tatoos? Fu cken ridiculous.

It's perfectly fine to question authority, I'd say healthy in fact, as respect is a two way street. Those shoes look fine to me, the important thing is that the kids are happy in school, and their well being and education is the most important thing in the school environment

clairewithani · 07-09-2017 10:32AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's perfectly fine to question authority, I'd say healthy in fact, as respect is a two way street. Those shoes look fine to me, the important thing is that the kids are happy in school, and their well being and education is the most important thing in the school environment

And maybe the kids are happy in this school. If a child is traumatised by being sent home for the wrong shoes maybe it says more about the child than the school. Traumatised, in fairness.

Wanderer78 · 07-09-2017 10:47AM

clairewithani wrote:

And maybe the kids are happy in this school. If a child is traumatised by being sent home for the wrong shoes maybe it says more about the child than the school. Traumatised, in fairness.

I was singeled out in school, amongst other males, for having long hair. Ended in principles office, only time this happened, was a very obedient student. Parents called and thankfully fully supported me. Found out after the fact, many of my teachers applauded my stance, such a ridiculous thing to occur. My father was actually an educator himself, was very intelligent, understood kids very well, particularly when it came to education, recommend some books to principle on how to educate children, I suspect he didn't like this. The ordeal was very stressful and I was very unsure of the outcome at the time, it has turned out to be a fairly significant event in my childhood

It was a very valuable life lesson to me, stand up for what you believe in, and, always, always question authority and authoritive figures, as sometimes, they truly get things wrong

Alun · 07-09-2017 10:51AM

I had some uniform issues too way back in the mists of time (England in the 70's) so it's not a new phenomenon by any means. At my school, a rather snobby grammar school, shoes were supposed to be of the "round toed Oxford type" whatever the fcuk those are. Only the rich kids whose parents could afford to buy them from the only shop in town that was the official uniform supplier wore them. Same thing for the blazers.

After one futile attempt by the headmaster to impose the rules to the letter, my father, a senior teacher at another school and at the time president of one of the teaching unions, paid him a visit. Never heard another word from them.

One eyed Jack · 07-09-2017 10:55AM

clairewithani wrote: »

And maybe the kids are happy in this school. If a child is traumatised by being sent home for the wrong shoes maybe it says more about the child than the school. Traumatised, in fairness.

I'd say that was the parent exaggerating rather than the child, a bit like the way they claimed to have paid €90 for runners that cost €30 :pac:

As for those who can't tell the difference between shoes and runners and the importance of that difference, I'm due to have a hip replacement operation next month and on the patient sheet I was given yesterday says I should bring 'sensible walking shoes'. I asked about it and was told runners do not provide the same support as walking shoes.

So that's no runners then.

vintagecosmos · 07-09-2017 10:57AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's perfectly fine to question authority, I'd say healthy in fact, as respect is a two way street. Those shoes look fine to me, the important thing is that the kids are happy in school, and their well being and education is the most important thing in the school environment

Question authority, sure, in the proper forum. But if the school stands by its rules and is consistent about enforcement then the child should obey. They are not shoes, they are runners. The child been happy in school is separate to this. The school has a rule, so obey it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-09-2017 11:27AM

vintagecosmos wrote: »

Question authority, sure, in the proper forum. But if the school stands by its rules and is consistent about enforcement then the child should obey. They are not shoes, they are runners. The child been happy in school is separate to this. The school has a rule, so obey it.

That's a very slippery slope to start out on (and a bit of a contradictory post, given your first and last sentences: what is the acceptable forum for a child to question certain school rules?) - and the last thing any child should turn 18 with is a blind following of rules and regulations.

vintagecosmos · 07-09-2017 11:34AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's a very slippery slope to start out on (and a bit of a contradictory post, given your first and last sentences: what is the acceptable forum for a child to question certain school rules?) - and the last thing any child should turn 18 with is a blind following of rules and regulations.

As a minor I would say through their parents in parent teacher meetings/going on the board of management / PTA etc. Does the school have a Student Forum/Council?

The rule says shoes. So wear shoes. Im not saying be blind, but the rules are there and available upfront. If you dont like the rules, then leave the school. no?

At what point do you stop with the bending of the rules? Dont worry about your homework, sure we covered it in class. Or, sure the kid deserved to be bullied. Take as many days off as you want, we dont mind. Rules are rules. As long as enforced consistently. The kid wasnt singled out as I understand. And he is breaking the rules. Correct?

seamus · 07-09-2017 11:36AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's a very slippery slope to start out on (and a bit of a contradictory post, given your first and last sentences: what is the acceptable forum for a child to question certain school rules?) - and the last thing any child should turn 18 with is a blind following of rules and regulations.

Sure.
But the second last thing any child should turn 18 with is a refusal to follow any rules and regulations. Resistance for the sake of resistance is just as unproductive as conformity without question. In both scenarios you have a person who is unable to think for themselves and decide what they want.

A child should be brought up to understand that knowing when to pick your battles is the most effective way to instigate change and to have the freedom to express yourself. Battling over things that don't really matter to you - like whether you wear runners or shoes for 4 hours of the day, 5 days a week - is a complete waste of your own time and energy. You gain nothing if you win, and you lose a lot by just fighting the battle in the first place.

Teach them the reasons why rules need to exist in the first place and they will have the skills to recognise which rules should be obeyed, and which rules should be questioned.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-09-2017 11:54AM

vintagecosmos wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's a very slippery slope to start out on (and a bit of a contradictory post, given your first and last sentences: what is the acceptable forum for a child to question certain school rules?) - and the last thing any child should turn 18 with is a blind following of rules and regulations.

As a minor I would say through their parents in parent teacher meetings/going on the board of management / PTA etc. Does the school have a Student Forum/Council?

The rule says shoes. So wear shoes. Im not saying be blind, but the rules are there and available upfront. If you dont like the rules, then leave the school. no?

At what point do you stop with the bending of the rules? Dont worry about your homework, sure we covered it in class. Or, sure the kid deserved to be bullied. Take as many days off as you want, we dont mind. Rules are rules. As long as enforced consistently. The kid wasnt singled out as I understand. And he is breaking the rules. Correct?

How is leaving school an option?

I'm saying that schools should be open to criticism of their rules directly from the students - genetally speaking, not just in regard to this specidic rule - and should be able to explain to stusents why said rules are in place and what they hope said rules will achieve.

If you dont believe students should be able to express an opinion or at least be listened to, educating them in a modern free society is s a but pointless.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-09-2017 11:54AM

vintagecosmos wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's a very slippery slope to start out on (and a bit of a contradictory post, given your first and last sentences: what is the acceptable forum for a child to question certain school rules?) - and the last thing any child should turn 18 with is a blind following of rules and regulations.

As a minor I would say through their parents in parent teacher meetings/going on the board of management / PTA etc. Does the school have a Student Forum/Council?

The rule says shoes. So wear shoes. Im not saying be blind, but the rules are there and available upfront. If you dont like the rules, then leave the school. no?

At what point do you stop with the bending of the rules? Dont worry about your homework, sure we covered it in class. Or, sure the kid deserved to be bullied. Take as many days off as you want, we dont mind. Rules are rules. As long as enforced consistently. The kid wasnt singled out as I understand. And he is breaking the rules. Correct?

How is leaving school an option?

I'm saying that schools should be open to criticism of their rules directly from the students - genetally speaking, not just in regard to this specidic rule - and should be able to explain to stusents why said rules are in place and what they hope said rules will achieve.

If you dont believe students should be able to express an opinion or at least be listened to, educating them in a modern free society is s a bit pointless.

Permabear · 07-09-2017 12:02PM

This post has been deleted.

osarusan · 07-09-2017 12:05PM

Don't know if it applies in this case, but when the rules about the uniform (uncrested stuff at least) go so far as to say it must be bought from a particular shop, it pisses me off.

seamus · 07-09-2017 12:06PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Is it? The Dail isn't a school.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 07-09-2017 12:12PM

seamus wrote: »

Sure.
But the second last thing any child should turn 18 with is a refusal to follow any rules and regulations. Resistance for the sake of resistance is just as unproductive as conformity without question. In both scenarios you have a person who is unable to think for themselves and decide what they want.

Absolutely - but ressitance for the sake of resitance is not what I was suggesting.

A child should be brought up to understand that knowing when to pick your battles is the most effective way to instigate change and to have the freedom to express yourself. Battling over things that don't really matter to you - like whether you wear runners or shoes for 4 hours of the day, 5 days a week - is a complete waste of your own time and energy. You gain nothing if you win, and you lose a lot by just fighting the battle in the first place.

But this is something that will effect them.

Any case, if there's a practical reason for the rule (which, in this case, there is) then give them the practical reason! Don't forb them off with rules are there for the sake of rules and for the soel reason to get you used to obeying them.

Teach them the reasons why rules need to exist in the first place and they will have the skills to recognise which rules should be obeyed, and which rules should be questioned.

Very true, but again, this can be done with practical rules.

Some schools, based on what I've read from other posters, seem to be more concrerned about rules for the sake of teaching rules than about actually creating a comfortable envoronment in which to study.

In conclusion: I'm not against the shoes only rule, I am against the idea that it's there for the sake of it being a rule.

LirW · 07-09-2017 12:27PM

Someone brought a good point up: On the one hand schools can be really petty with these rules, on the other hand enforcing a uniform policy all around the year that leaves kids freezing because the fancy school jacket doesn't keep you warm a single bit. I find this really scandalous, especially when teenagers have longer breaks to go off but easily catch a cold because they aren't allowed to wear a proper coat in the winter.

Also changing school in many parts of the country isn't an option because the next Secondary is miles and miles away.

_Dara_ · 07-09-2017 12:36PM

Sending a student home is drastic. Something important could be missed. Often important concepts are taught within a day and not touched upon again. It's losing sight of the bigger picture and demonstrating pettiness and inability to use their discretion to students, not great qualities to instil.

tabby aspreme · 07-09-2017 12:44PM

No one needs to freeze because the school jacket is not warm enough, there are plenty of reasonably priced thermal base layer options available for the shivering students, come the weekend they seem warm enough in tee shirts or crop tops . Being cold will not give you a cold / flu , it's viruses , that's an Irish mammy myth. Uniforms in school prevent Brand bullying , and reduce the financial pressure on parents.
One of our local secondary schools has a great idea regarding uniforms, if a student is not wearing the correct uniforms the school gives them one to wear for the day, it may not fit great on them so they don't forget the next day

Would you consider these school shoes?

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