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Tillage as viable part time farming option

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Comments

  • #32
    The part time boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭The part time boy


    Speaking as a former tillage farmer here.

    Your plan there wont work Unless u can take time of your work when needed at drop of a hat .

    The window for planting spraying and cutting is very narrow . Your going to be growing noghing but weeds if u are going to be looking out of your office At the fine morning hoping it wont rain that evening hoping you can spray something before 2nd leaf stage. Growing grain not easy most of the time never mind doing it in weekends and evening .

    Going to be frank and say forget that totally

    The only way to work it is to contract out everything . The only job you could manage part time is plouging as your weather window is not as tight.

    There a guy around here with a job who grows grain . Gets contrator to do everything. His doing it 20 years so i presume his not losing money but might not making a lot either .

    If you have sheds draw all the straw in and sell it out of sheds in the winter. Or even buy a bail trailer and deliver it at weekends . Put your time and money into the straw


  • #33
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,200 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What sort of beef stock have do you deal in. Are you making money at it.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #34
    Floki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭Floki


    Floki wrote: »
    Most of the p and k transfers to the grain not the straw.

    Roughly I think 80 or 85% of the p and k in the plant is in the mature hardened grain.

    The ultimate recycling would be to have the user of the grain (pigs, poultry, maybe even humans ) waste spread back on the growing land plus benefits (at it again) of more diverse bacteria that conventional tillage does a good job of killing.


  • #35
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,200 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    OP I had not read enough of the thread before I replied above. If you cannot manage drystock with your job it is unlikely you can do tillage profitably. This idea you can spray at weekends or evenings will not work. I often spend a week looking for a good spraying window either to spray off a paddock or to spray a reseed. Farm is 10 miles away, yours is 20 from you, while weather might be perfect at your house it might be too windy at the farm etc, etc.

    If you cannot contract out the whole I forget about it. Unless you are willing to move onto the farm and move house framing in your case is not really an option. If you were 10-12 miles nearer it would be if you could get a lad to look after them at when you were away. Renting the place is the only viable option.

    However I imagine that your parents are against this as they live on the place. In reality the most viable option is a share milking scheme if the land was in one block but it may be split in more than one parcel. In reality leasing or selling is the only viable option.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #36
    MF290
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭MF290


    A lot of people mentioning that contractors are the solution to getting work done in a narrow time frame. The contractors themselves are going to be farming or contracting a lot more acres or at silage, slurry etc.. and will be difficult get when you want them.


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  • #37
    larthehar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 607 ✭✭✭larthehar


    I can be done but won.t be easy.. i agree that spraying windows are tight and you will have to do it as soon as you can.. i don.t know where you are based but if it is on wet and windy territory i wouldn.t advise it.. if it is a dry sheltered region then worth a try.. you could always go the contractor route in year one and take it from there.. or you are happy.. just plough on! You will be doing a lot of late nights and long weekends and it is not for the faint hearted..


  • #38
    The part time boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭The part time boy


    That a valid enough point but u need to pick the right contractor .

    The fella near me uses differant contractor for each job. Fella that cuts the grain does not have much grain . Fella that sprays does not have grain himself so his able to come when needed.

    This fella grows good grain and his normal the first fella around to set and cut around here.

    When i used to be at grain i used to get contractor to set and cut . Never had a problem getting them when i needed them. They would stop working at there own stuff to come to me. A contrator would have to do that to keep the job .

    I do know another fella who could do it but he cut his own first . Hense why he gets very little to none hire work


  • #39
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    Offered Local big guy dung for straw, wasn't overly interested.

    His loss.


  • #40
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,200 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    Offered Local big guy dung for straw, wasn't overly interested.
    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    His loss.

    It is all subjective. First take the value of the straw at 10 ish/bale. Add in the cost of drawing and spreading the Dung. You would have the P&K replaced with artificial fertlizer for that money and maybe a bit in the pocket as well. In lots of cases cost of spreading organic fertlizer is break even with artifical. If adding a journey to spreading distance and trading straw it would be a loss making venture.

    As well Organic manure has to well rotted and has to be ploughed in to tillage ground. While it will add organic matter to soil the fertlizer value is varible depending on what it was used for.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #41
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    It is all subjective. First take the value of the straw at 10 ish/bale. Add in the cost of drawing and spreading the Dung. You would have the P&K replaced with artificial fertlizer for that money and maybe a bit in the pocket as well. In lots of cases cost of spreading organic fertlizer is break even with artifical. If adding a journey to spreading distance and trading straw it would be a loss making venture.

    As well Organic manure has to well rotted and has to be ploughed in to tillage ground. While it will add organic matter to soil the fertlizer value is varible depending on what it was used for.

    No and no Bass.

    Only fertiliser salesmen will try and compare artificial fertiliser and organic manure.

    Fym does not need to be ploughed in...


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  • #42
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    It is all subjective. First take the value of the straw at 10 ish/bale. Add in the cost of drawing and spreading the Dung. You would have the P&K replaced with artificial fertlizer for that money and maybe a bit in the pocket as well. In lots of cases cost of spreading organic fertlizer is break even with artifical. If adding a journey to spreading distance and trading straw it would be a loss making venture.

    As well Organic manure has to well rotted and has to be ploughed in to tillage ground. While it will add organic matter to soil the fertlizer value is varible depending on what it was used for.
    We don't plough arable ground us costs too much on the clay land(rest is no-til) and only hides bad practice, we do let a student loose turning with a digger though when the heaps vary from between 50and 85 degrees. Spread it on milling wheats in late winter as an early N.
    It suits us to send out barley and oaten straw with some wheat, get bio-solids(sludge), green waste compost which we might mix in some kalphos or fibrophos in with on the heap. Plenty of lorries looking for work around here from bulkers to 'wagon and drags'.


  • #43
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    We don't plough arable ground us costs too much on the clay land(rest is no-til) and only hides bad practice, we do let a student loose turning with a digger though when the heaps vary from between 50and 85 degrees. Spread it on milling wheats in late winter as an early N.
    It suits us to send out barley and oaten straw with some wheat, get bio-solids(sludge), green waste compost which we might mix in some kalphos or fibrophos in with on the heap. Plenty of lorries looking for work around here from bulkers to 'wagon and drags'.

    There's a lad that does the rounds here with one of those yokies for turning fym that you'd see in mushroom compostors. At €90/hr he can turn a helluva lot in a day. You're very scientific with temps...our guy just turns it whenever he's passing.
    I supply turkey and chicken houses with chopped straw and the litter is returned. It only costs a Euro a bale extra for the Baler to chop.

    I've three spreaders going here this week to try and make a start on osr.


  • #44
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    We don't plough arable ground us costs too much on the clay land(rest is no-til) and only hides bad practice, we do let a student loose turning with a digger though when the heaps vary from between 50and 85 degrees. Spread it on milling wheats in late winter as an early N.
    It suits us to send out barley and oaten straw with some wheat, get bio-solids(sludge), green waste compost which we might mix in some kalphos or fibrophos in with on the heap. Plenty of lorries looking for work around here from bulkers to 'wagon and drags'.

    There's a lad that does the rounds here with one of those yokies for turning fym that you'd see in mushroom compostors. At €90/hr he can turn a helluva lot in a day. You're very scientific with temps...our guy just turns it whenever he's passing.
    I supply turkey and chicken houses with chopped straw and the litter is returned. It only costs a Euro a bale extra for the Baler to chop.

    I've three spreaders going here this week to try and make a start on osr.
    When it gets too hot it will effect the bugs doing the work and when it gets cold their running out of O2. Want to cook any weed seeds.


  • #45
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,414 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    When it gets too hot it will effect the bugs doing the work and when it gets cold their running out of O2. Want to cook any weed seeds.

    Thanks. Useful information.


    What post and pre emerge herbicides do you use on osr?


  • #46
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    Thanks. Useful information.


    What post and pre emerge herbicides do you use on osr?

    Will go at a full rate on headlands and areas known to be 'weedy'. Combine drivers can mark it in when cutting for the next time. Also to do with managing not putting ruts in before spring, so work to be lighter on wet tramlines but unless it has a helium ballon attachment it'll never be 100%.


  • #47
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Will go at a full rate on headlands and areas known to be 'weedy'. Combine drivers can mark it in when cutting for the next time. Also to do with managing not putting ruts in before spring, so work to be lighter on wet tramlines but unless it has a helium ballon attachment it'll never be 100%.

    We put pellets down a day or 2 post drilling and then fire brigade runs before it gets to being a problem, so needs to be checked at least every 2 days for next month as it's wet ATM here. Last drilled stuff just coming and early is away. Some flea beetles about but pointless to spray as it's being used on them for the last 30 years and they laugh at it now really. Just as a fire brigade run really.
    There was a serious sense of humour malfunction when someone decided to use a quadie rather than a hire tractor(no gps you see) to roll the last of the heavy land stuff. Inherited the gator, ok an a cold day otherwise a sauna.
    To add we use the centurion for bad patches of BG in spring otherwise glyphosate is the tool of choice. Mix and match the rest to the season but ideal do a post em tight to emergence and then leave til march.


  • #48
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Looking at osr earlier with the mini assistant.
    Difference in early sowing vs late is alot this year, not too worried for later stuff. YET.


  • #49
    GoingForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭GoingForIt


    The part time boy wrote: »
    Speaking as a former tillage farmer here.

    Your plan there wont work Unless u can take time of your work when needed at drop of a hat .

    The window for planting spraying and cutting is very narrow . Your going to be growing noghing but weeds if u are going to be looking out of your office At the fine morning hoping it wont rain that evening hoping you can spray something before 2nd leaf stage. Growing grain not easy most of the time never mind doing it in weekends and evening .

    Going to be frank and say forget that totally

    The only way to work it is to contract out everything . The only job you could manage part time is plouging as your weather window is not as tight.

    There a guy around here with a job who grows grain . Gets contrator to do everything. His doing it 20 years so i presume his not losing money but might not making a lot either .

    If you have sheds draw all the straw in and sell it out of sheds in the winter. Or even buy a bail trailer and deliver it at weekends . Put your time and money into the straw

    Thanks for this reply.

    just to let everyone know, i had to travel to US for 2 weeks, hence.....busy with work.......my whole predicament.

    but based on your experience as someone in tillage, if I
    - ploughed
    - sowed
    - baled straw
    - sold straw

    contract out:
    - spraying
    - harvesting

    what would i have per acre out of it????


  • #50
    GoingForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭GoingForIt


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    What sort of beef stock have do you deal in. Are you making money at it.

    we buy at 450kg and finish to factory.

    on average, we would make ~170 per animal, with about 60 animals per year

    so, the returns are ok for what i want out of it, but i am just back from 2 weeks in US, and my dad looked after everything......long term, this is not an option


  • #51
    GoingForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭GoingForIt


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    OP I had not read enough of the thread before I replied above. If you cannot manage drystock with your job it is unlikely you can do tillage profitably. This idea you can spray at weekends or evenings will not work. I often spend a week looking for a good spraying window either to spray off a paddock or to spray a reseed. Farm is 10 miles away, yours is 20 from you, while weather might be perfect at your house it might be too windy at the farm etc, etc.

    If you cannot contract out the whole I forget about it. Unless you are willing to move onto the farm and move house framing in your case is not really an option. If you were 10-12 miles nearer it would be if you could get a lad to look after them at when you were away. Renting the place is the only viable option.

    However I imagine that your parents are against this as they live on the place. In reality the most viable option is a share milking scheme if the land was in one block but it may be split in more than one parcel. In reality leasing or selling is the only viable option.

    i agree.......

    the idea behind me ploughing, sowing and baling is that by and large their will be a big enough time window to do this.

    spraying and harvesting definitely best to contract out


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  • #52
    RJGMovie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭RJGMovie


    did you give this a go? If so how did it go?



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