Tillage as viable part time farming option

GoingForIt

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

Why don't you keep your money and get a contactor to do it.

You have no capital outlay and maintaining machinery. Probably work out about the same. A contractor near me reconds it would cost a tillage farmer 150e per acre. That would save time too. Do a set deal with a big well equipped contractor. Most grain merchants have a local guy to spread fertilizer. Try to do a deal with them also.

You could get a lessor tractor for bringing in bales etc u will do well coming out of it with 100e per acre excl SFP.

Who2

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

I don't know much about tillage but I'd reckon no way would it be viable. How would you manage with contractors in a year like this? You'll be the last lad they go to as there own would be more important or someone else would be shouting. Surely you could manage checking dry stock daily, graze what you can comfortably, finishing some off grass and the rest fed out of the shed. Use a tangled to buy and contractors as much as possible.

Mooooo

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

If you kept a portion of it and rent out the rest. Rental income once over 5+yrs is tax free. Tillage the last few years is taking a bad hit profit wise. Realistically if you want to get money out of it without much time renting is the main one, perhaps only one

GoingForIt

checking every day is perfect during the long summer evenings, but when something goes wrong (eg. sick animal or water issue) then it ain't nice.

the folks went away for 7 weeks holidays this year and I was looking after ~60 beef stock........honestly lads, it felt as though I was working 24/7 for the 7 weeks.

I remember one night during the summer when a water pump was giving trouble, the animals had no water for nearly a full day and here I was at midnight trying to fix the pump.....and I still had to be in work the following morning! Fair enough it was a once off.

But the bigger issue is that I couldnt travel with work for the 7 weeks, which was not good. But with tillage, I can easily say for 1 or 2 weeks as being "i can't travel" about 4-5 times per year......and that would be around harvesting, ploughing and sowing time. Spraying could be easily a wknd job

GoingForIt

i'd be worried about the contractor taking all the money and literally leaving me with 0, or worse i owe money.

My plan would be to do it in stages:
Year 1 - Buy the plough, contract everything else
Year 2 - Buy the sprayer, contract remainder
etc.......

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

i'd be worried about the contractor taking all the money and literally leaving me with 0, or worse i owe money.

My plan would be to do it in stages:
Year 1 - Buy the plough, contract everything else
Year 2 - Buy the sprayer, contract remainder
etc.......

Why not price it..get a set price

lakill Farm

kk.man wrote: »

Why not price it..get a set price

Stay away from ploughing. It's hard on machinery and tyres and diesel.on tractors and is cheap enough at e25 an acre.

So that be one of the last things.

Combine at 60e an acre and baling at e5 a bale.
Maybe concentrate at that.
Buy a decent combine to knock 80a for 10/15k.
Baler 5k

Sprayer. E3/5k

Sower e5k

Need a roller also.

GoingForIt

lakill Farm wrote: »

Stay away from ploughing. It's hard on machinery and tyres and diesel.on tractors and is cheap enough at e25 an acre.

So that be one of the last things.

Combine at 60e an acre and baling at e5 a bale.
Maybe concentrate at that.
Buy a decent combine to knock 80a for 10/15k.
Baler 5k

Sprayer. E3/5k

Sower e5k

Need a roller also.

remember that if i got a combine, then i need to transport it also which means a trailer.

i agree on the baler.

so if i spent ~45k as follows:
Sprayer - 4k
One pass - 17k
Baler - 12k
Plough - 8k
Roller - 5k

Contract
harvesting 60e per acre

would i pull 10-15k out of 80 acres?

GoingForIt

kk.man wrote: »

Why don't you keep your money and get a contactor to do it.

You have no capital outlay and maintaining machinery. Probably work out about the same. A contractor near me reconds it would cost a tillage farmer 150e per acre. That would save time too. Do a set deal with a big well equipped contractor. Most grain merchants have a local guy to spread fertilizer. Try to do a deal with them also.

You could get a lessor tractor for bringing in bales etc u will do well coming out of it with 100e per acre excl SFP.

would you reckon 100/ac after paying contractor.

with 80 acres that would give me 8k, which it i were to plough and bale only then i could another ~30e/ac onto that with 80 ac at 130e/ac = 10.5k which I would be happy with

lakill Farm

GoingForIt wrote: »

remember that if i got a combine, then i need to transport it also which means a trailer.

i agree on the baler.

so if i spent ~45k as follows:
Sprayer - 4k
One pass - 17k
Baler - 12k
Plough - 8k
Roller - 5k

Contract
harvesting 60e per acre

would i pull 10-15k out of 80 acres?

You drive a combine on the road. Most do 20/25kph. Insure it for fire anyway and tax it. E100 PA

Why would you spend 15k on a baler to bale straw

You need to factor out as much contracting as possible.

More Margain in for you then

Mooooo

GoingForIt wrote: »

remember that if i got a combine, then i need to transport it also which means a trailer.

i agree on the baler.

so if i spent ~45k as follows:
Sprayer - 4k
One pass - 17k
Baler - 12k
Plough - 8k
Roller - 5k

Contract
harvesting 60e per acre

would i pull 10-15k out of 80 acres?

Yield × price of grain and straw - Costs, ie seed, fert, spray, diesel, machinery, time etc.
Prob have to count for bad wether at setting or harvest as well. The tillage lads on here may contribute yet but depends on sfp etc with it id say

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

would you reckon 100/ac after paying contractor.

with 80 acres that would give me 8k, which it i were to plough and bale only then i could another ~30e/ac onto that with 80 ac at 130e/ac = 10.5k which I would be happy with

Well this guy rented a big farm last year n here is what he told me
Paid the farmer 150 per acre
Carried or all the work themselves
Got a v good yield
Sold the straw it made 60e per acre
Didn't charge himself 4 the work
But he said it would have come to 150 per acre
So with the price of straw this year it should b at least 100e per acre

Thus the straw is ur profit !

GoingForIt

lakill Farm wrote: »

You drive a combine on the road. Most do 20/25kph. Insure it for fire anyway and tax it. E100 PA

Why would you spend 15k on a baler to bale straw

You need to factor out as much contracting as possible.

More Margain in for you then

remember, I will have to factor in machine maintenance. I want to buy semi-decent machines that I can look after.

i am looking at a 15 year view, so I don't want to buy a combine and spend a lot of time trying to maintain it.

that is reason for buying relatively basic machinery. No way would I be able to maintain second hand combine. But a 15k baler doing 80 acres of straw every year should see me out.......

GoingForIt

kk.man wrote: »

Well this guy rented a big farm last year n here is what he told me
Paid the farmer 150 per acre
Carried or all the work themselves
Got a v good yield
Sold the straw it made 60e per acre
Didn't charge himself 4 the work
But he said it would have come to 150 per acre
So with the price of straw this year it should b at least 100e per acre

Thus the straw is ur profit !

so in theory, if i were to take my 45k as an investment and write it off on machinery, and best on your buddies experience
- i will own land (saving of 150e/ac)
- the work comes to 150e/ac (but i will pay contractor to harvest, which means 60-70 e/ac)

i should still make ~140e/ac???????

kk.man

GoingForIt wrote: »

so in theory, if i were to take my 45k as an investment and write it off on machinery, and best on your buddies experience
- i will own land (saving of 150e/ac)
- the work comes to 150e/ac (but i will pay contractor to harvest, which means 60-70 e/ac)

i should still make ~140e/ac???????

That 150 is all in from ploughing right thru bailing

Gawddawggonnit

GoingForIt wrote: »

Lads,

The story is that we have 80 acre farm at home that my father ran as a good dairy farm up until about 12 yers ago when he sold cows and quota because neither myself or my brother were going to full-time farm it. The father now has the perfect retirement going around the marts buying cattle and finishing them and turning a few bob which supplements his SFP + Pension......perfect sure..

Now here comes the problem, he is getting well-on and he now plans to give the whole lot over to me.

I will be honest, I live about 20 miles away and I have a good job (manager in a multinational). Although I have a good job, I am time poor as I often have to travel at short notice, therefore keeping animals is simply not an option as I am typically out of the country 8-10 weeks per year.

So I have 3 options:
1. Rent it out (nope - i want use the land)
2. Bale silage and sell silage to dairy lads (nope - i would be all year selling and then chasing money)
3. Small tillage setup (maybe - can work at evening's/weekends for maybe 6 wks per year?)

We have a decent 120hp tractor

So my question is:
If I invested in a (45k in savings)
- 4 furrow reversible plough
- 3m One-pass system
- sprayer
AND
- contracted out the harvesting
- contracted out baling the straw
would I
a) make >15k profit (consider the 45k as not requiring repayment)
b) only have to minimal time (only need to be around at certain times of year)

I know about the teagasc calculator, but i want to opinion of real people and their experiences if there is any out there in a similar position.

cheers

The last 5yrs have been very bad for tillage farmers.
Growing feed crops is a waste of time.
The way things are going <500ac farms are only able to support part time farming.
You could be away on your real job when a crop needs chemicals or harvesting etc.

Let the farm and leave some other poor sod take the risk while you pocket tax free euros.

ml100

I do something similar only less acres, a couple of things to note, you need a good contractor, do the ploughing yourself as the contractor probably won't have time, spraying is very time sensitive and with greening rules you will need 3 different crops which means 3 different spray cycles, don't underestimate the amount of time this takes getting the different sprays etc, I get my contractor to sow, spray and cut, it has just about worked out but you will struggle to make more with the current feed grain prices and it's very difficult to time the cutting if malting Barley etc right when using a contractor.
If I was travelling amount that you do with work I don't think it would be worth the stress for return you would be getting.
If you do decide to do it, look into registering for vat before you spend any more.

K.G.

Maybe im missing something but when do you plan to do the work.field work tends to be done in weather windows and all has to be done when it needs to be done.every saturday aint going to be suitable

lakill Farm

K.G. wrote: »

Maybe im missing something but when do you plan to do the work.field work tends to be done in weather windows and all has to be done when it needs to be done.every saturday aint going to be suitable

That's why I said about subbing out ploughing. It's a slow job

You can easily sow at night with GPS and also spraying

2 days would knock 80 acres with a 16ft header in the right conditions.

freedominacup

Crop husbandry is if anything more technically skilled than managing a high output dairy operation. Maybe not the same day to day intensity of dairying but the good operators are constantly monitoring their crops throughout the growing season and timing applications of fert and chems to very fine margins. Tillage done right is not the fire and forget operation you seem to think it is. When a crop is due chems it's due them today not when you're back from travelling for your real job.

You could look at a contract farming option. Maybe look at doing your own ploughing and straw clearance if you want to keep an interest. Tillage farmer/contractor does everything else and supplies sprays . You supply seed, fert and land and split the profits. You get access to his skills and machinery. He is spreading his fixed costs over more acres. He will probably have a far better price on sprays than you will ever get if he's covering reasonable acreage. You both share risks and rewards.

cute geoge

freedominacup wrote: »

Crop husbandry is if anything more technically skilled than managing a high output dairy operation. Maybe not the same day to day intensity of dairying but the good operators are constantly monitoring their crops throughout the growing season and timing applications of fert and chems to very fine margins. Tillage done right is not the fire and forget operation you seem to think it is. When a crop is due chems it's due them today not when you're back from travelling for your real job.

You could look at a contract farming option. Maybe look at doing your own ploughing and straw clearance if you want to keep an interest. Tillage farmer/contractor does everything else and supplies sprays . You supply seed, fert and land and split the profits. You get access to his skills and machinery. He is spreading his fixed costs over more acres. He will probably have a far better price on sprays than you will ever get if he's covering reasonable acreage. You both share risks and rewards.

Thats is very good idea but wondering who owns the straw in that situation because i reckon the straw is where there might just a small bit of profit to be made on

Bullocks

If you have sheds , would you consider a lightly stocked suckler herd and enter every environment scheme available ?
Go for the simplest low input / low stress method you can because compared to a reasonable job any type of farming leaves a depressing return for the work involved.
For the same reason as above only start a type of farming you like because if you don't like it you're wasting your time doing it for financial reasons.
I think financially you would be aswell off renting it out for a few years

blue5000

freedominacup wrote: »

Crop husbandry is if anything more technically skilled than managing a high output dairy operation. Maybe not the same day to day intensity of dairying but the good operators are constantly monitoring their crops throughout the growing season and timing applications of fert and chems to very fine margins. Tillage done right is not the fire and forget operation you seem to think it is. When a crop is due chems it's due them today not when you're back from travelling for your real job.

You could look at a contract farming option. Maybe look at doing your own ploughing and straw clearance if you want to keep an interest. Tillage farmer/contractor does everything else and supplies sprays . You supply seed, fert and land and split the profits. You get access to his skills and machinery. He is spreading his fixed costs over more acres. He will probably have a far better price on sprays than you will ever get if he's covering reasonable acreage. You both share risks and rewards.

Bullocks wrote: »

If you have sheds , would you consider a lightly stocked suckler herd and enter every environment scheme available ?
Go for the simplest low input / low stress method you can because compared to a reasonable job any type of farming leaves a depressing return for the work involved.
For the same reason as above only start a type of farming you like because if you don't like it you're wasting your time doing it for financial reasons.
I think financially you would be aswell off renting it out for a few years

Combination of these 2, you plough it, do share farming with a contractor, he sows it, sprays it, harvests it and bales it. You provide the land, seed and fertiliser, keep the straw for your livestock so dung goes back to your tillage land. 40 acres of tillage, 40 acres of grass for a small suckler herd, hopefully the old lad will be around a few more years to have an interest. 15-20 cows, AA or HE bull. Just my 2 cents

Gawddawggonnit

cute geoge wrote: »

Thats is very good idea but wondering who owns the straw in that situation because i reckon the straw is where there might just a small bit of profit to be made on

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

kowtow

K.G. wrote: »

Maybe im missing something but when do you plan to do the work.field work tends to be done in weather windows and all has to be done when it needs to be done.every saturday aint going to be suitable

My thought exactly.

You might be a long time waiting for a "spraying sunday"

kowtow

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

Not many free lunches, but another man's fertility for sale at twelve quid a bale always puts a smile on my face.

Floki

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

Most of the p and k transfers to the grain not the straw.

aidanki

Is the land suitable for grain, I know someone with wet ground cant cut grain at the min, TBH its rather wet in a good year, never mind at the minute

Waffletraktor

kowtow wrote: »

My thought exactly.

You might be a long time waiting for a "spraying sunday"

You would be supprised about the no. of spray hours there are in a day, mostly in early morning from 4am+. Not un common to be going at dawn and bowser out with 1st load an hour or so after when need to 'get on'. Led lights down the boom for spary pattern are a help.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

When I was a lad my father said to me that if you're growing cereals for straw then you're at nothing. Same holds true today.
For the loss of p and k, straw should be double the price it is now.

I would say the only thing you want to know about straw is when the stock farmer has delivered you back all their dung for the year. Otherwise i hear good things about wood chips for bedding!

GrasstoMilk

Waffletraktor wrote: »

You would be supprised about the no. of spray hours there are in a day, mostly in early morning from 4am+. Not un common to be going at dawn and bowser out with 1st load an hour or so after when need to 'get on'. Led lights down the boom for spary pattern are a help.

I would say the only thing you want to know about straw is when the stock farmer has delivered you back all their dung for the year. Otherwise i hear good things about wood chips for bedding!

Offered Local big guy dung for straw, wasn't overly interested.