Media: Rents at all-time high, supply all-time low - RTE

Askthe EA · 23-08-2017 2:49pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

And how many people can afford an apartment in that nice building you are talking about.
The problem is still one of cost and people not being willing or able to pay that cost.

Trickle down effect? Any increase in supply is welcomed.

jamesthepeach · 23-08-2017 2:52pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

Trickle down effect? Any increase in supply is welcomed.

I don't see a whole lot of trickle down happening from there. I suppose it could but I'd be very surprised.
People buying a swanky new pad in ballbridge aren't going to be moving from anywhere the normal Joe soap can afford to buy.

Askthe EA · 23-08-2017 2:58pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I don't see a whole lot of trickle down happening from there. I suppose it could but I'd be very surprised.
People buying a swanky new pad in ballbridge aren't going to be moving from anywhere the normal Joe soap can afford to buy.

Not directly, but, theres a good chance that they are downsizing from a pile in Ballsbridge which will be sold to a trader upper, who in turn sell their three bed semi to a couple renting in say Grand Canal Dock freeing up that 2 bed apartment.

quadrifoglio verde · 23-08-2017 3:22pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

Not directly, but, theres a good chance that they are downsizing from a pile in Ballsbridge which will be sold to a trader upper, who in turn sell their three bed semi to a couple renting in say Grand Canal Dock freeing up that 2 bed apartment.

Agreed and in the long run it moves supply along.
However it's a bit like the government giving the council a war chest for property. In the long run it increases supply, because the family that sold to the council trade up/down to somewhere else.

However it's the long term and Dublin councils are ruthless for it. Buying and bidding the price up until they get the property to house someone. In the long term it will increase supply. However had the government's policy been here's x, now build with that x, it would have increased supply much quicker. Instead it just added to the bidding wars and does nothing for supply now or in the next 18 months.
If I was selling a property in Dublin I'd be hoping the council were bidding on it. They've a huge budget and will push the private buyer up. You just need to make sure you go with the private buyer because it's slowoving once it goes sale agreed

Henbabani · 23-08-2017 4:09pm

reminder - i'm from Israel and moving in to Dublin in May 18,
Just announce in Israel - Airbnb rentels will pay 50% taxes from their rent income.
really good move to fight with this airbnb shortage.

Askthe EA · 23-08-2017 4:18pm

Henbabani wrote: »

reminder - i'm from Israel and moving in to Dublin in May 18,
Just announce in Israel - Airbnb rentels will pay 50% taxes from their rent income.
really good move to fight with this airbnb shortage.

Landlords here already pay 50%, more or less!!

jamesthepeach · 23-08-2017 4:21pm

Henbabani wrote: »

reminder - i'm from Israel and moving in to Dublin in May 18,
Just announce in Israel - Airbnb rentels will pay 50% taxes from their rent income.
really good move to fight with this airbnb shortage.

That would be an improvement here.
Hope you are ready to pay more tax than you ever thought possible when you come to Ireland

The_Conductor · 23-08-2017 4:24pm

Askthe EA wrote: »

Landlords here already pay 50%, more or less!!

Only if they don't have some decent costs- such as mortgage interest for example- to offset against the rental income before determination of taxable income.

For a self-employed person- it could theoretically be as high as 54.5%- however, I'm not aware if anyone has ever hit this theoretical max.

Henbabani · 23-08-2017 4:45pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Henbabani wrote: »

reminder - i'm from Israel and moving in to Dublin in May 18,
Just announce in Israel - Airbnb rentels will pay 50% taxes from their rent income.
really good move to fight with this airbnb shortage.

That would be an improvement here.
Hope you are ready to pay more tax than you ever thought possible when you come to Ireland

honestly i have to say that im consider the relocation really good those days. hope things will get better until next May.
But still, Ireland is cheaper than Israel and you can check it out, every measure that the OECD makes, Israel on the top 3 expensive places.
in Irealnd, you may pay a lot on apartment(again is Israel is more expensive), but at least the food, gas, clothes - doesn't cost you so much.
Here in Israel everything is cost you a fortune.

bluedex · 23-08-2017 4:49pm

awec wrote: »

Interesting to see that the number of landlords has been steadily decreasing for 5 years at a pretty constant rate. The 2016 and 2017 figures will be interesting to see if the RPZ legislation has had any meaningful impact on the rate.

My guess for the steady decline is that accidental landlords have been getting out of negative equity and selling as soon as they could. Obviously not true in all cases but I'd guess it represents a large chunk of it.

Agree. This is pretty much exactly what has been happening, IMO. As people get out of negative equity, or even close to "neutral equity", they want to sell up and get out of the awful hassle and often negative yield of renting a mortgaged property. It's only natural.

jamesthepeach · 23-08-2017 4:56pm

Henbabani wrote: »

honestly i have to say that im consider the relocation really good those days. hope things will get better until next May.
But still, Ireland is cheaper than Israel and you can check it out, every measure that the OECD makes, Israel on the top 3 expensive places.
in Irealnd, you may pay a lot on apartment(again is Israel is more expensive), but at least the food, gas, clothes - doesn't cost you so much.
Here in Israel everything is cost you a fortune.

Man you are in for a shock when you get here. I worked in Netanya for a spell on 2015 and I remember thinking things are expensive compaeed to what I thought they would be but they were still cheaper than Dublin for sure.
I don't know what the tax rebate was because I was being taxed Irish style while I was there.

The_Conductor · 23-08-2017 5:03pm

Henbabani wrote: »

honestly i have to say that im consider the relocation really good those days. hope things will get better until next May.
But still, Ireland is cheaper than Israel and you can check it out, every measure that the OECD makes, Israel on the top 3 expensive places.
in Irealnd, you may pay a lot on apartment(again is Israel is more expensive), but at least the food, gas, clothes - doesn't cost you so much.
Here in Israel everything is cost you a fortune.

Petrol - Israel = EUR1.44/litre , Ireland = EUR1.35
Diesel - Israel = EUR1.32/litre , Ireland = EUR 1.22

As for food, clothing and sundry goods- Ireland is around 10% cheaper- however- this is way offset by 60% higher healthcare costs in Ireland, and over 250% higher prescription charges in Ireland- than in Israel.

You win some, you loose some- Ireland is a bit cheaper for some things- significantly more expensive esp. for anything health related.

jamesthepeach · 23-08-2017 5:05pm

bluedex wrote: »

Agree. This is pretty much exactly what has been happening, IMO. As people get out of negative equity, or even close to "neutral equity", they want to sell up and get out of the awful hassle and often negative yield of renting a mortgaged property. It's only natural.

I agree . And also you have landlords who got screwed by the rent cap getting out at the first opportunity, be that selling or going short term.
And then you have new entrants dropping big time too.
Then you have tenants on low rents not moving either so anyone who has to move is going to find out the hard way how much rent really should be.
Cluster****.

But it will all somehow be blamed on the landlord and they'll bring more legislation and just make it worse again, when they should be removing all the legislation instead.

awec · 23-08-2017 5:09pm

bluedex wrote: »

Agree. This is pretty much exactly what has been happening, IMO. As people get out of negative equity, or even close to "neutral equity", they want to sell up and get out of the awful hassle and often negative yield of renting a mortgaged property. It's only natural.

I have nothing to back this up so I am only hypothesising, but I imagine even if it were low hassle and decent income that most would sell up regardless.

After getting burnt in the crash I imagine they'd not want to take the risk of being stuck with their unwanted property if there was another dip in prices. Sell it and move on with their lives, free from the worry of having a large debt in an unpredictable market.

Henbabani · 23-08-2017 7:03pm

You need to make this calculation when you know how much we earn.
During my intership as law intern i got 2,000€ for a month.
The rent here in Tel aviv is 1,300€ at least for 1Bdr apartment.
Houst in tel aviv can cost you at least 800-900k for 3-4 Bdr apartment!

jamesthepeach · 23-08-2017 7:59pm

Henbabani wrote: »

You need to make this calculation when you know how much we earn.
During my intership as law intern i got 2,000€ for a month.
The rent here in Tel aviv is 1,300€ at least for 1Bdr apartment.
Houst in tel aviv can cost you at least 800-900k for 3-4 Bdr apartment!

An internship in Ireland you will get less than half that, if you are very lucky.

LirW · 23-08-2017 9:25pm

An internship here can get you something between nothing and a few hundred a month. There are many many law interns here fighting for these positions. It's a popular degree and offices know that.

Also comparing the market in Tel Aviv with the market in Dublin is pointless, two different countries, different living costs, different taxes.
I too can compare the market with let's say Vienna, where property is basically unaffordable but the rents are cheap enough.

PhilipsR · 23-08-2017 9:40pm

The scariest part of this whole situation is that I don't see an end game. Prices will continue to rise as there's an outrageous shortage. Any developments ongoing within the canals at the minute seem to be all office blocks! I genuinely don't see where all these companies are coming from for all this office space. I know people say Brexit but if all these offices get filled with companies moving from the UK, I genuinely don't know where these workers will live.

It's actually a very scary situation for a person in their 20s and thankfully I'm emigrating next month. It'll be interesting looking from the inside out.

pwurple · 23-08-2017 10:06pm

Council don't help to be honest...

There was a 6 storey decent size mixed development planned for somewhere near Mahon Point recently in cork city... Retail, offices, and the top two floors to be residential. decent size units, 2 bed plus. On very good bus links (every 6 minutes), near loads of employment, dell offices, VMware, mater private hospital, big Tesco, couple of gyms, amenity walkways, schools nearby etc, lots of facilities, all good.

You'd think.

Except, the council made them take the top two floors of residential off it. Because they said it would hamper traffic to have residential mixed with employment hubs. Before it even GOT to the planning department stage. Imagine that. Instead of letting people live near their employment and walk there, they have to drive from a suburb instead. And that's supposed to improve traffic?

Completely unqualified councillors making this kind of decision. Boggles the mind.

23-08-2017 10:36pm

Encouraging and incentivising job creation away from Dublin is something that needs to be done big time. Other parts of the country will benefit immensely from more people and more money in the communities and housing is much cheaper, traffic much less of an issue etc etc.

Henbabani · 24-08-2017 10:37am

LirW wrote: »

An internship here can get you something between nothing and a few hundred a month. There are many many law interns here fighting for these positions. It's a popular degree and offices know that.

Also comparing the market in Tel Aviv with the market in Dublin is pointless, two different countries, different living costs, different taxes.
I too can compare the market with let's say Vienna, where property is basically unaffordable but the rents are cheap enough.

I guess you're right, But we're not move in to Dublin just because the prices of everything, it's also the working hours, the atmosphere, the weather in Ireland way better than the desert in Israel (today with the humidity it's rise up to 36 degrees and it the same for all July and August), Ireland is really big and you can find yourself a really nice apartment even for 100-150K E outside of Dublin/Cork/Galway - in Israel you can't.
In Ireland you can rent a car every saturday and planing a nice trip for the weekend - in Israel it's just to hot outside to go somewhere from June till October at least.
From Dublin you have really cheap flight to all over europe, for example i took a flight from Dublin to Manchester in 19.99 E for roundtrip, London for 35 E roundtrip, in Israel if you find any flight to the UK in 250-300 E you should take it immediately.
Finally, the live in Ireland looks way better than in Israel and if we don't give that chance to Ireland, every country had her own problems, in Israel there's security issues, costs of living, working hours and weather, in Ireland it's seems to be the big problem is only the costs of houses and a bit other costs of living. so i guess we gonna give Ireland a chance

LirW · 24-08-2017 10:53am

Which is all fair enough and I said before I hope you find what you're looking for here. Just don't see it all through rose-tinted glasses and dismiss very good points people make about the current situation in Ireland. I did it and the awakening was rude.

Wheeliebin30 · 24-08-2017 10:55am

pwurple wrote: »

Council don't help to be honest...

There was a 6 storey decent size mixed development planned for somewhere near Mahon Point recently in cork city... Retail, offices, and the top two floors to be residential. decent size units, 2 bed plus. On very good bus links (every 6 minutes), near loads of employment, dell offices, VMware, mater private hospital, big Tesco, couple of gyms, amenity walkways, schools nearby etc, lots of facilities, all good.

You'd think.

Except, the council made them take the top two floors of residential off it. Because they said it would hamper traffic to have residential mixed with employment hubs. Before it even GOT to the planning department stage. Imagine that. Instead of letting people live near their employment and walk there, they have to drive from a suburb instead. And that's supposed to improve traffic?

Completely unqualified councillors making this kind of decision. Boggles the mind.

The council is made of a majority of sinn fein and the left.

It suits them to continue this housing shortage so they can keep shouting from the ditch and stay relevant.

Otherwise noone would vote for them as they bring nothing to the table.

The_Conductor · 24-08-2017 11:04am

Henbabani - you have a really rose tinted view of Ireland- that most of us who live here- are probably wistful about. I wish it were the wonderful place you seem to have it pegged to be.

it's also the working hours,

Working hours here are rarely what they're alleged to be in people's contracts.

the atmosphere, the weather in Ireland way better than the desert in Israel (today with the humidity it's rise up to 36 degrees and it the same for all July and August),

We have a different climate- its not better or worse- its just different. This week for example- we had a month's worth of rain inside an hour- and even now parts of the country are cutoff with bridges down, electricity supply hasn't been fully restored in the Northwest, and there are still travel advisories in counties Mayo, Roscommon, Leitrim and Sligo.

Yes- its not the desert- and you might be nostalgic for something that's not desert- but its just a different climate.........

Ireland is really big and you can find yourself a really nice apartment even for 100-150K E outside of Dublin/Cork/Galway - in Israel you can't.

Ireland may be really big- when you compare it to Israel- however, its also remarkably small- and often very insular. Despite the fact that the land area of Ireland is over 3 times that of Israel- our population is only half Israels (about 4.5million here versus about 9 million in Israel?)

In Ireland you can rent a car every saturday and planing a nice trip for the weekend - in Israel it's just to hot outside to go somewhere from June till October at least.

Its still expensive to rent a car here- and if you're going somewhere- you'll need accommodation etc- which is also expensive.........

From Dublin you have really cheap flight to all over europe, for example i took a flight from Dublin to Manchester in 19.99 E for roundtrip, London for 35 E roundtrip, in Israel if you find any flight to the UK in 250-300 E you should take it immediately.

You might get lucky with Ryanair flights- the 19.99 to Manchester return- would be booked long in advance and most probably at a time of low demand (midweek and late at night- for example). Normal fares from airlines here- even Ryanair- are not 19.99 return to anywhere. I booked return fares to Lisbon for a family of 4 for the first of November earlier this morning- it cost EUR1,400- and they're going to have another 400 on top of that for car hire (they have free accommodation though). That's with Ryanair.........

If you find a flight for 250-300 here- depending on where its going to- times and stop-overs- 250-300 for a European flight- might be very good value........

Finally, the live in Ireland looks way better than in Israel and if we don't give that chance to Ireland, every country had her own problems,

When you live in a place- anywhere else can look very attractive. Its only when you actually move there- that you find you had very optimistic assumptions and rosy expectations.

in Israel there's security issues, costs of living, working hours and weather, in Ireland it's seems to be the big problem is only the costs of houses and a bit other costs of living. so i guess we gonna give Ireland a chance

Honestly- you're in for a shock if you think the cost of living in Ireland is going to be much lower than in Israel- and while you seem fixated on the weather- its not any better or worse here- its just different. You'll be longing to see your desert before too long.

By all means give Ireland a chance- but you do need to be realistic and not make totally arbitrary assumptions that have no grounding in fact.

By the way- if you buy one of those cheap apartments 40-50 miles outside of Dublin- you might have a 2-3 hour commute- alongside toll roads etc- There is a reason they're cheap...........

Come on over- and try it out- it'll give you a better feel for how it actually is here...........

PokeHerKing · 24-08-2017 11:20am

The_Conductor wrote:

Come on over- and try it out- it'll give you a better feel for how it actually is here...........

Christ never get a job in the tourism industry.

It's a sad state of affairs when people are claiming that Israel has a better quality of life than Ireland.

Next we'll be hearing eastern Ukraine wipes the floor with our cost of living!

The opinions of the majority on here would have me quoting Bertie's famous 07 gaffe!

The_Conductor · 24-08-2017 12:12pm

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Christ never get a job in the tourism industry.

It's a sad state of affairs when people are claiming that Israel has a better quality of life than Ireland.

Next we'll be hearing eastern Ukraine wipes the floor with our cost of living!

The opinions of the majority on here would have me quoting Bertie's famous 07 gaffe!

I've actually lived in Israel- and to be brutally honest- wouldn't suggest its a good idea for anyone. Ireland is a brilliant place to bring up children- but its damn expensive- and someone coming over here who imagines they are going to save vast sums of money over any other place- is likely to be sorely disappointed.

The whole security aspect of living in Israel- wholly aside from any other factor- would be a massive reason for living here rather than there. Imagining you're going to save a small fortune on food, clothing, fuel, electricity etc- is 100% definitely not the case. A massive point in Israel's favour- is the remarkably good value healthcare and medicine is there- compared to here.

Living in Ireland versus living in Israel- really is not looking at two equivalents and comparing them against the same criteria- personally- I love Ireland- and I love brining up my children here- my wife and I both have good jobs- but by god, its expensive.

The first big shock the poster is going to get when they get their first paycheck here- is our tax rates (and system). In Israel- personal tax is calculated on a monthly rather than an annual basis. Up to 6,220 NIS(about EUR1,600) per month you pay 10% tax. 6,221-8920NIS (about EUR1,600 to EUR2,250) you pay 14%. 20% on EUR2250 - EUR3,600. 31% on EUR3,600 to EUR5,000. 35% on EUR5,000 to EUR10,400. 47% on EUR10,400 to EUR 13,400. 50% on all income over EUR13,400 per month (for simplicity sake- I'm saying 1 Euro = 4 NIS (Israeli Shekels)). So- they have 7 tax brackets- and the mean person only hits the 20% bracket (they have tax credits too- worth on average EUR60-70 equivalent per month). The poster is going to get one hell of a tax shock here.

jamesthepeach · 24-08-2017 12:16pm

Agreed. I was only there for a few months and would never want to live there. Everyone else all around you wants to kill you for a start, and it is far too hot.
But it's definitely not more expensive than Ireland by a long shot.
And if you are used to the desert you probably will have issues adjusting to amount of rain we get in Ireland. Might be a novelty for a while though.

Henbabani · 24-08-2017 12:48pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Christ never get a job in the tourism industry.

It's a sad state of affairs when people are claiming that Israel has a better quality of life than Ireland.

Next we'll be hearing eastern Ukraine wipes the floor with our cost of living!

The opinions of the majority on here would have me quoting Bertie's famous 07 gaffe!

I've actually lived in Israel- and to be brutally honest- wouldn't suggest its a good idea for anyone. Ireland is a brilliant place to bring up children- but its damn expensive- and someone coming over here who imagines they are going to save vast sums of money over any other place- is likely to be sorely disappointed.

The whole security aspect of living in Israel- wholly aside from any other factor- would be a massive reason for living here rather than there. Imagining you're going to save a small fortune on food, clothing, fuel, electricity etc- is 100% definitely not the case. A massive point in Israel's favour- is the remarkably good value healthcare and medicine is there- compared to here.

Living in Ireland versus living in Israel- really is not looking at two equivalents and comparing them against the same criteria- personally- I love Ireland- and I love brining up my children here- my wife and I both have good jobs- but by god, its expensive.

The first big shock the poster is going to get when they get their first paycheck here- is our tax rates (and system). In Israel- personal tax is calculated on a monthly rather than an annual basis. Up to 6,220 NIS(about EUR1,600) per month you pay 10% tax. 6,221-8920NIS (about EUR1,600 to EUR2,250) you pay 14%. 20% on EUR2250 - EUR3,600. 31% on EUR3,600 to EUR5,000. 35% on EUR5,000 to EUR10,400. 47% on EUR10,400 to EUR 13,400. 50% on all income over EUR13,400 per month (for simplicity sake- I'm saying 1 Euro = 4 NIS (Israeli Shekels)). So- they have 7 tax brackets- and the mean person only hits the 20% bracket (they have tax credits too- worth on average EUR60-70 equivalent per month). The poster is going to get one hell of a tax shock here.

Ok - two big problems with your information, i didn't think we gonna save a lot of money is Ireland, it's not going to happend in Israel either, we just have 100K from our parents and in Ireland we could do more with that some of money than in Israel and maybe we don't need to take 30 year mortgage.
Second - about the tax, in Israel except the tax you have to pay 10% from your salary on what called health tax. so when you addind the 10% tax with the tax that you wrote above - the picture looks a bit different.
another thing - in Ireland if only the housband working and earn for example 60K you can get tax refund because your wife doesn't working. in Israel there isn't such a thing, you pay the tax depends on what you earn no matter if the women working or not.

bluedex · 24-08-2017 1:03pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I agree . And also you have landlords who got screwed by the rent cap getting out at the first opportunity, be that selling or going short term.
And then you have new entrants dropping big time too.
Then you have tenants on low rents not moving either so anyone who has to move is going to find out the hard way how much rent really should be.
Cluster****.

But it will all somehow be blamed on the landlord and they'll bring more legislation and just make it worse again, when they should be removing all the legislation instead.

Yep, a complete mugs game for private landlords. Some of the solutions to alleviate the problem are so obvious that you have to assume the powers that be either:
1. don't want to solve it (not enough anyway) or,
2. are completely stupid.

BillyBobBS · 24-08-2017 1:15pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The council is made of a majority of sinn fein and the left.

It suits them to continue this housing shortage so they can keep shouting from the ditch and stay relevant.

Otherwise noone would vote for them as they bring nothing to the table.

Haha. What absolute tripe. I wouldn't vote SF or the left in a fit but how you can blame the present situation on them when they've never had a sniff of government is laughable. The policy of the present and previous government is the reason we are at this moment. It is now starting to effect companies wanting to set up in Ireland as the living spaces for their potential employees just isn't there. I know of two different cases of companies based in the UK who have decided against Ireland because of that reason alone.

Media: Rents at all-time high, supply all-time low - RTE

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